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Old 09-19-2013, 12:29 AM   #701
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

It'd be a very small cameo, unlike what we all hoped would happen in TLS.

But what's the point in rewriting the past if you can't have lost loved ones in a new future? I'm sure, massive Sentinel war aside, that thought probably drives Xavier a bit to right the wrongs.

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Old 09-19-2013, 12:55 AM   #702
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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It'd be a very small cameo, unlike what we all hoped would happen in TLS.

But what's the point in rewriting the past if you can't have lost loved ones in a new future? I'm sure, massive Sentinel war aside, that thought probably drives Xavier a bit to right the wrongs.
Yeah I totally agree with you on this. Xavier was pretty dismissive of Scott in X3, so it would be nice to see that he actually gave a damn about his death. And it does seem like a golden opportunity IF Fox/Singer want to take advantage of it. I'm just not so sure they care enough to bother based on their track record.

I'm holding out a bit of hope, and I hate to be a debbie downer, but I remember what happened last time we tried to use our "fan logic" to speculate about Scott.

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:53 AM   #703
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

All good points. I think the major outlier though, that may at least counter Fox's perceived lack of interest in Cyclops, is X-Men Origins: Wolverine. That movie reeks of studio control, and has every opportunity to be an unabashed Wolverine love fest, yet it goes out of its way to include Cyclops and not only to be a lame foil to Jackman's leading man. Granted, his inclusion, along with the other mutants, is a stepping stone to the then Josh Schwartz First Class spin-off, but it does show that Fox is not only interested in further exploring the X-Men universe but doing so with Cyclops as well. Perhaps this attitude will continue after Days of Future Past? With the recent lackluster performance of The Wolverine, surely the studio realizes that the franchise can't survive on Jackman alone?


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Old 09-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #704
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

To put it lightly, I always knew that if he were to appear, Cyclops would only be in a single post-credits scene. There's no way to bring him back during the main story.

If worst comes to worst, I can imagine Sinister cloning him in a sequel.

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Old 09-19-2013, 02:01 PM   #705
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

if they made sinister clone cyclops it would be more fan service then it would actually make sense in this film series

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Old 09-19-2013, 04:30 PM   #706
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I think it's a possibility that he appears in the post credits scene, more than the likelihood of Sinister cloning him.

Also, despite our disappointment in Scott's fate in X3, we did get the Xavier post-credits scene...

So you never know... Considering Bryan's previous comments and his friendship with Marsden, it's not far fetched that he shows up in an uncredited cameo at the end.

I imagine after all the events of this movie we would see the outcome to the First Class world and the Original Trilogy timeline.

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:22 PM   #707
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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To put it lightly, I always knew that if he were to appear, Cyclops would only be in a single post-credits scene. There's no way to bring him back during the main story.

If worst comes to worst, I can imagine Sinister cloning him in a sequel.
Post-credits scene? Why? Him returning in the altered future makes complete sense. We're going to likely see a finale that ends with us seeing the new future, likely to include characters that are dead or die in the Sentinel-laden future. It's going to be obvious that any and all events between 1973 and the future setting are subject to have changed. It's an easy way to start fresh while still keeping the past films in continuity - they'll just be in a separate universe of sorts. My point is, they can easily have Cyclops and Jean alive at the end. And I'm pretty certain that's part of the game plan in the main storyline. We may see Storm, Iceman, Rogue, Kitty, etc. die in the movie, and they'll be back once the past has been changed because, as a result of it changing, none of those deaths will have happened. Okay, I feel like I'm being redundant, but, yeah, it can and probably will easily play into the "main storyline" - if it doesn't, what's the point of the film?

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:03 PM   #708
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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To put it lightly, I always knew that if he were to appear, Cyclops would only be in a single post-credits scene. There's no way to bring him back during the main story.

If worst comes to worst, I can imagine Sinister cloning him in a sequel.
Why would they choose not to change Scott's fate in the movie about time travel but wait for the next film to bring him back in an even more convoluted story?

Most of us never thought time travel would make into these X-films but now it has. It would be a missed opportunity not to bring back a crucial character in this film especially since we are travelling to a point in time prior to said character's death. Much unlike the original story in the comics.

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:03 PM   #709
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I agree. I'm sure a lot of the characters will be casualties of the Sentinels over the course of the film, making changing the past even more crucial.

I'm not sure if they'll bring back Jean though, since even in the comics she has been dead for awhile. I'd like them to, but her main arc is the Phoenix storyline, and it's been done.

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #710
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I still hold hope that, if they can bring her back and they do a sequel, we'll get a taste of Singer's vision of the Phoenix.

Can you imagine Phoenix vs. Apocalypse?

Really, Xavier understands he went about "helping" Jean when she was a teen the wrong way. Knowing that young Xavier meets face-to-face with future Xavier, young Xavier will likely do things differently over the coming years, which means we could get Jean back who has total control of all her power, but as well her own consciousness. So we could get a fiery, "good" Phoenix with Jean in control should we have a sequel. But this is the idealist in me talking. I'm pretty sure Scott will be back, but I have a feeling Jean wont be.

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:25 PM   #711
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

It would be nice to see fiery good Phoenix...

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:25 PM   #712
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If singer brings back cyclops its likely he will bring back jean too given that cyclops was killed because of jean, now if suddenly he is alive but she ain't it leaves alot of questions, while if you bring them both back it still leaves questions but it doesn't seem as one sided and people would probably be more accepting of them both back with no explanation then just one of them

Also if Scott and jean return at end I think the next FC movie will probably explain it, in fact may end up possibly being singers Phoenix story with a younger versions of the cast where xavier doesn't hold her powers back

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:28 PM   #713
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

X3 pretty much ruined the look and character of the Phoenix, totally changed the rules

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:32 PM   #714
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Okay, this film is all about changing decades of events. Bringing back either Scott, Jean or both should arise no questions. It's all explained by the fact the course of history has been changed... there's really no misunderstanding that when the film itself revolves around the concept of rewriting history. Yes, it happens because Sentinels have taken over mutants, but there are naturally other advantages... like bringing back Xavier's most beloved students.

I'm also fairly certain this will be the last time we see the "young" characters. If they continue on with the series, I'm guessing it'll be a present-day affair.

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:54 PM   #715
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Okay, this film is all about changing decades of events. Bringing back either Scott, Jean or both should arise no questions. It's all explained by the fact the course of history has been changed... there's really no misunderstanding that when the film itself revolves around the concept of rewriting history. Yes, it happens because Sentinels have taken over mutants, but there are naturally other advantages... like bringing back Xavier's most beloved students.

I'm also fairly certain this will be the last time we see the "young" characters. If they continue on with the series, I'm guessing it'll be a present-day affair.
The OT would be future and chances are not present day if it is 2023 like many are speculating

At comic con during an interview with mcavoy (in same room as Stewart,mckellen,fassbender and singer) he seems to believe there will be another FC film and as he has read the script so there must be a door open for the younger versions of the characters, I think the 3rd will be the last for FC though

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:55 PM   #716
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I hope you're right. As good as First Class was, there isn't much more you can do that would be that interesting that far in the past. And it clearly didn't follow the source material in the comics... at all. We all want to see the modern day team and I think this movie is bridging that gap.

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Old 09-19-2013, 07:00 PM   #717
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I hope you're right. As good as First Class was, there isn't much more you can do that would be that interesting that far in the past. And it clearly didn't follow the source material in the comics... at all. We all want to see the modern day team and I think this movie is bridging that gap.
Well technically no, this film is more or less changing the events of some of the OT so all that remains is what the FC guys do to create the new future, that's not really a bridge but more a starting point where things happen differently

Its easy to say oh lets just see the OT with every character back like nothing happened and face apocalypse, but you do need more then that

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Old 09-19-2013, 07:20 PM   #718
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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The OT would be future and chances are not present day if it is 2023 like many are speculating

At comic con during an interview with mcavoy (in same room as Stewart,mckellen,fassbender and singer) he seems to believe there will be another FC film and as he has read the script so there must be a door open for the younger versions of the characters, I think the 3rd will be the last for FC though
X1 (First Film) - Establish world; present/near future
X2 (Sequel) - Character development; some time after first film
X3 (Sequel) - Attempt to end series as trilogy; some time after second film
XO:W (Prequel) - Origin for Wolverine; fifteen years before first film
FC (Prequel) - Origin of the X-Men; decades before first film, several years before previous prequel
TW (Sequel) - Wolverine; present day/some time after third film
DoFP (Sequel) - Ten years after events of previous sequel/ten years after second prequel


That's the basic breakdown of the film series from X1 to DoFP. At this point, do you really think they're going to want another prequel? The series is a mess when it comes to a film release timeline. There's really nothing left to explore in the past. We know Jean, Scott and Storm are students that become X-Men. At this point, it's not something worth focusing a film on. We have the chance to start again with the future/present day. It'll be very confusing to most ŗudience members if they go to the next film and it suddenly takes place in the 70's or 80's when DoFP seems like it's going to wrap the past up.

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Old 09-19-2013, 07:38 PM   #719
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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X1 (First Film) - Establish world; present/near future
X2 (Sequel) - Character development; some time after first film
X3 (Sequel) - Attempt to end series as trilogy; some time after second film
XO:W (Prequel) - Origin for Wolverine; fifteen years before first film
FC (Prequel) - Origin of the X-Men; decades before first film, several years before previous prequel
TW (Sequel) - Wolverine; present day/some time after third film
DoFP (Sequel) - Ten years after events of previous sequel/ten years after second prequel


That's the basic breakdown of the film series from X1 to DoFP. At this point, do you really think they're going to want another prequel? The series is a mess when it comes to a film release timeline. There's really nothing left to explore in the past. We know Jean, Scott and Storm are students that become X-Men. At this point, it's not something worth focusing a film on. We have the chance to start again with the future/present day. It'll be very confusing to most ŗudience members if they go to the next film and it suddenly takes place in the 70's or 80's when DoFP seems like it's going to wrap the past up.
But you have nothing to Go on when you say it will wrap up the past, you haven't seen the film, we know that young xavier is in a dark place and doesn't have any Xmen

There is many things I could say to back up my theory but I pretty much said them already in the past on this forum

Mcavoy seems to think there will be another and I imagine he has a reason to believe so, the cast are in contract for 3 films and this is film 2, there is big potential in a 3rd FC movie with cyclops and jean that singer would be crazy to ignore, and singer pretty much said in the past in 2011 in interviews about a 3 decade trilogy with the 2nd being set during Vietnam which is pretty much what we are getting in DOFP

Now that's only a few reasons why I think there will be a 3rd, but this is a sequel to both so I think its pretty even split in terms of how people will accept the next film

I mean its possible they may do it as another back and forth timeline thing

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Old 09-19-2013, 07:45 PM   #720
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If they do "time travel" again, it'll be redundant and weaken the impact it has on DoFP. But, yeah, the altered future will likely tell us what happened/changed in the decades proceeding 1973 in a subtle way. I wouldn't be surprised if they make it a film that wraps up the entire series. Not to say there won't be sequels, prequels or spin-offs, but it seems like it'll be an end-all for what's already happened in the previous six films. Though there are many stories left to be told, even if all the loose strings are tied up.

And contracts have zero implications on how many films the actors will be in, it just means they're contractually obligated to do as many films as they signed on for. Simple.

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Old 09-19-2013, 08:14 PM   #721
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I think there is enough to suggest we will see the FC cast again, whether its godfather 2 style back and forth story like originally intended Or one last FC film for young xavier to become the xavier we know from the OT (which I think was always the idea), will just have to see.

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Old 09-19-2013, 11:31 PM   #722
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Yeah I really don't think its necessary to do another prequel. The potential for a "prequel trilogy" with the FC cast is gone from the moment FOX brought back the OT cast in DOFP and when they went back to the modern day period in the Wolverine.

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Old 09-20-2013, 03:39 AM   #723
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Okay, this film is all about changing decades of events. Bringing back either Scott, Jean or both should arise no questions. It's all explained by the fact the course of history has been changed... there's really no misunderstanding that when the film itself revolves around the concept of rewriting history. Yes, it happens because Sentinels have taken over mutants, but there are naturally other advantages... like bringing back Xavier's most beloved students.

I'm also fairly certain this will be the last time we see the "young" characters. If they continue on with the series, I'm guessing it'll be a present-day affair.
It absolutely raises questions.

Because if Cyclops and Jean Grey are brought back with no other explanation other than "time travel, herp derp", then it brings into question the validity of the entire main trilogy, and what is and isn't what actually happened anymore.

Basically, the course of events spanning the entire trilogy is now tossed out.

And Singer said that's not what he's doing.

You can't just wipe out one huge chain of events and say it never happened, but everything else does.

Sorry, no matter how much people want Cyclops back, picking and choosing your continuity based off nothing more than "time travel, herp derp" makes absolutely no sense and only muddies up the water even more, and is the type of storytelling techniques that keep comic books from being taken seriously in the realm of literature.

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Old 09-20-2013, 04:42 AM   #724
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I wonder wether there will be a mid/post credit scene unexplained which shows a reappearance from the pair?

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Old 09-20-2013, 05:39 AM   #725
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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If they do "time travel" again, it'll be redundant and weaken the impact it has on DoFP. But, yeah, the altered future will likely tell us what happened/changed in the decades proceeding 1973 in a subtle way. I wouldn't be surprised if they make it a film that wraps up the entire series. Not to say there won't be sequels, prequels or spin-offs, but it seems like it'll be an end-all for what's already happened in the previous six films. Though there are many stories left to be told, even if all the loose strings are tied up.

And contracts have zero implications on how many films the actors will be in, it just means they're contractually obligated to do as many films as they signed on for. Simple.
I think they could very well make another FC movie, its nothing to say that it cant happen. They are still stories that can be told,because there is nothing saying the many many storyline that were used in the comics have to only be used in the present. A last FC to wrap everything would be fine but I dont agree with the people to think that its impossible to happen just because the OC is back,considering we dont know if they just wanted to be back for DOFP or if they want to continue doing movies. Idk if Stewart or McKellan still want to do movies past this point. If they continue to do movies every 8 years with the OC then they will be pretty aged unless they bring in new characters, or just continue with Rogue,Shadowcat, and Iceman as the Next Generation. Then I wont be able to get my Storm fix.

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