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Old 09-14-2013, 04:55 PM   #401
Kahran Ramsus
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

As long as Thor, Iron Man, and Cap are there I don't think it really matters who rounds out the team.

We all have our favorites, but those three are the only absolutely necessary characters. The drop off after the Big 3 is enormous. Arguing over who is number four is like arguing over the number four guy on the Miami Heat. There is Lebron (Tony), Wade (Rogers), Bosh (Thor), and everybody else.


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Old 09-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #402
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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As long as Thor, Iron Man, and Cap are there I don't think it really matters who rounds out the team.

We all have our favorites, but those three are the only absolutely necessary characters. The drop off after the Big 3 is enormous. Arguing over who is number four is like arguing over the number four guy on the Miami Heat. There is Lebron (Tony), Wade (Rogers), Bosh (Thor), and everybody else.

.....what the....?!?!?!

EVERYBODY knows that Thor is BIRDMAN, not Bosh!
Chris Bosh is Nick Fury.

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Old 09-14-2013, 08:36 PM   #403
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Nah. Riley is Fury. Spoelstra is Maria Hill.

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Old 09-16-2013, 11:43 AM   #404
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Emo Peter Parker

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Old 09-16-2013, 12:13 PM   #405
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Emo Peter Parker
This.

It made every other horrible decision look okay by comparison.

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Old 09-16-2013, 01:17 PM   #406
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Emo Peter Parker
This I blame Avi Arad for.

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Old 09-16-2013, 02:15 PM   #407
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This I blame Avi Arad for.
He wanted Venom. A poster here said that he only asked for just the symbeote. Regardless I don't think having a boogy wooly dancing Spider-Man was Arad's idea.

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Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
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Old 09-16-2013, 02:21 PM   #408
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Lets count the slaps for Spider Man 3, shall we?
1. Emo Peter Parker.
2. Gwen Stacy being completely pointless.
3. Eddie Brock's characterization.
4. Venom being introduced in the most ludicrously contrived way possible.
5. Harry being built up over two films, then being completely mishandled (amnesia, ugh).
6. Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer.
7. That stupid dance scene and the symbiote being used for comedy.
8. Deus ex Machina Butler.
9. MJ's characterization.
10. Harry dying for no reason.
11. Sandman being the only villain to survive, despite being the only one of the three who actually killed anyone.
12. Peter forgiving Sandman so pathetically easily.
And many many more.

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Old 09-16-2013, 03:24 PM   #409
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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He wanted Venom. A poster here said that he only asked for just the symbeote. Regardless I don't think having a boogy wooly dancing Spider-Man was Arad's idea.
I think that was Raimi's "**** you" to Avad and Marvel.

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Old 09-16-2013, 11:32 PM   #410
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I think that was Raimi's "**** you" to Avad and Marvel.
What does Marvel had to do with Spider-Man 3? They were powerless in terms of decision-making on the production of that film. It was all Avi Arad & Sony's arm-twisting that resulted in that debacle.

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Old 09-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #411
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Yeah, Spider-man 3 was a big slap in the face (I think more like a kick in the balls, actually), but I take it it wasn't a "Marvel" movie?

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Old 09-19-2013, 04:29 PM   #412
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Choosing a villain was difficult, because Favreau felt Iron Man's archnemesis, the Mandarin, would not feel realistic, especially after Mark Millar gave his opinion on the script.[48] He felt only in a sequel, with an altered tone, would the fantasy of the Mandarin's rings be appropriate.[52] The decision to push him into the background is comparable to Sauron in The Lord of the Rings,[50] or Palpatine in Star Wars.[52] Favreau also wanted Iron Man to face a giant enemy. The switch from Mandarin to Obadiah Stane was done after Bridges was cast.[27] Stane had originally been intended to become a villain in the sequel.[48] The Crimson Dynamo was also a villain in early drafts in the script.
Regarding the Mandarin, they could've taken a page out of Nolan's Batman Begins and his approach to a "realistic" Ra's Al Ghul and applied to the Mandarin yes? I mean they're practically the same kind of character, I was hoping to see something like that again, and I thought casting Ben Kingsley in that sort of role was genius. But then I saw the movie...

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Old 09-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #413
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Regarding the Mandarin, they could've taken a page out of Nolan's Batman Begins and his approach to a "realistic" Ra's Al Ghul and applied to the Mandarin yes? I mean they're practically the same kind of character, I was hoping to see something like that again, and I thought casting Ben Kingsley in that sort of role was genius. But then I saw the movie...


So many ways to have done a decent job with the characters...

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Old 09-19-2013, 09:11 PM   #414
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I'd say the biggest offenders are probably Spider-man 3 and the Mandarin. Honestly if I had to choose one or the other it would be SM3. That just feels like a giant mis-fire and leaves the over-all story arcs hanging. And yeah emo Peter... not only is it chessy, corny and kind of pathetic, it really, really dates the movie. Feels like something from the mid 2000's.

While I understand and won't argue with those who didn't like what they did with Mandarin, I actually liked the twist. But that's just me, I like that kinda stuff when they play with villains whole identity and for me I thought Killian was a good villain.

One thing I haven't seen brought up regarding the Mandarin is the fact that Iron Man 3 is in part a Chinese movie, co funded by China in fact. I think that played a big role in the motives behind changing the Mandarin's character. China is notorious for censoring/banning films that portray Chinese characters or iconography representing villains. The fact that this film is co-funded by the Chinese almost ensures that they would have had some kind of creative input/control. So one way to look at it is this is CHINA'S TAKE ON THE MANDARIN. And it shows. They took a stereotyped and clichéd Asian villain and turned him into just that, a cliché...a farce. And I think it goes deeper that that. Killian's scheme to own the "war on terror" is actually how China sees us and our "war on terror". To a certain extent, they may be right.

Reading the old comics, Marvel has always been used for propaganda. A lot of entertainment is but I never let it bother me. Politics is politics. I'm just here for the action, adventure and human drama. It's interesting and ironic to see that it's come full circle. Different perspectives but still very much propaganda.

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Old 09-19-2013, 09:17 PM   #415
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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I'd say the biggest offenders are probably Spider-man 3 and the Mandarin. Honestly if I had to choose one or the other it would be SM3. That just feels like a giant mis-fire and leaves the over-all story arcs hanging. And yeah emo Peter... not only is it chessy, corny and kind of pathetic, it really, really dates the movie. Feels like something from the mid 2000's.

While I understand and won't argue with those who didn't like what they did with Mandarin, I actually liked the twist. But that's just me, I like that kinda stuff when they play with villains whole identity and for me I thought Killian was a good villain.

One thing I haven't seen brought up regarding the Mandarin is the fact that Iron Man 3 is in part a Chinese movie, co funded by China in fact. I think that played a big role in the motives behind changing the Mandarin's character. China is notorious for censoring/banning films that portray Chinese characters or iconography representing villains. The fact that this film is co-funded by the Chinese almost ensures that they would have had some kind of creative input/control. So one way to look at it is this is CHINA'S TAKE ON THE MANDARIN. And it shows. They took a stereotyped and clichéd Asian villain and turned him into just that, a cliché...a farce. And I think it goes deeper that that. Killian's scheme to own the "war on terror" is actually how China sees us and our "war on terror". To a certain extent, they may be right.

Reading the old comics, Marvel has always been used for propaganda. A lot of entertainment is but I never let it bother me. Politics is politics. I'm just here for the action, adventure and human drama. It's interesting and ironic to see that it's come full circle. Different perspectives but still very much propaganda.
I doubt it. This universe's Mandarin was not going to be the Mandarin of the comics since the beginning. Favreau confirmed it all the way back when IM1 came out. Plus, Shane Black confirmed that it was entirely his idea.

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Old 09-19-2013, 09:46 PM   #416
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I doubt it. This universe's Mandarin was not going to be the Mandarin of the comics since the beginning. Favreau confirmed it all the way back when IM1 came out. Plus, Shane Black confirmed that it was entirely his idea.

Well, Favreau had Mandarin in some of his early scripts for the first film, but from the sound of things had more to do with that Character's powers rather than who he was. If I recall Favreau's take was supposed to be a Chinese version of Tony Stark. He would have still been an Asian villain, an idea that would have been axed for IM3, given the Chinese funding, had it survived. It's no secret that China doesn't like movies that pit a western, white hero against an Asian antagonist and will censor or outright ban them.

Had The Mandarin been closer to Favreau's earlier idea China wouldn't have had anything to do with funding it. While it's Shane Black idea, and he's taking credit for it do you really think he's going to outright say something like "yeah I had this idea for IM3 but in some of the meetings with the various producers I was told that our Chinese co-funders would rather not have an Asian villain as the main antagonists" ? I'm not saying I'm correct, this is just speculation on my part but to think that things like that don't happen in the business is naïve.

From what I've heard Mandarin wasn't even going to be in IM3 till late into scripting. Almost like they shoehorned the character in. I just get the feeling that there was far more to the changes to the Mandarin then just it's cool twist to divide the fans. They made a statement, a critique of stereotyped ethnic villains, in mainstream western entertainment and even the news media. If that was all Shane Black's idea and politics then...Bravo!


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Old 09-20-2013, 08:56 AM   #417
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by Loki882 View Post
Lets count the slaps for Spider Man 3, shall we?
1. Emo Peter Parker.
2. Gwen Stacy being completely pointless.
3. Eddie Brock's characterization.
4. Venom being introduced in the most ludicrously contrived way possible.
5. Harry being built up over two films, then being completely mishandled (amnesia, ugh).
6. Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer.
7. That stupid dance scene and the symbiote being used for comedy.
8. Deus ex Machina Butler.
9. MJ's characterization.
10. Harry dying for no reason.
11. Sandman being the only villain to survive, despite being the only one of the three who actually killed anyone.
12. Peter forgiving Sandman so pathetically easily.
And many many more.
Dag when I read these I think I threw up in my mouth.

Although I need clarification on these to know that my memeory serves me right.

Deus ex Machina Butler?

That stupid dance scene and the symbiote being used for comedy.(your saying cause he was under the suits influence?)

Harry being built up over two films, then being completely mishandled (amnesia, ugh).that amnesia thing for me is right up there with him blocking his powers in Sp2.Ooop!!!I think I threw up again.
Wow!Which could have been handled in so many different ways.I always pictured he would get the crap beat out of him then look up and see
Harry in his fathers suit.Freaking him out Physcologicaly.Which I feel was a missed oppurtunity then you could have had harry messing with him as Parker.man they let that bal drop.It could have a mental movie with action.

Harry dying for no reason.

He wanted ou of his contract.He didnt want to do anymore movies.Which sucks I rather they pick another actor then do things in movies because of whats happening out side of the movie in terms of contracts and things.Like thats why they killed off Cyclops in X3 your not hurting the actor your hurting the character and the integrity of the character.There not one in the same.That like asking Patrick Steward to allow someone break his back and be crippled for the movie.You wouldnt bring out the movie situation into real life so why bring real life into the movie?

Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer.(True I thought it didnt really serve a purpose but to tie back into the first movie or give Spiderman a motive.Also with anyone of those villians it could have been a stand alone movie.It didnt need three.A Venom movie.A Goblin 2 movie (Harry).3.Or Sandman.Which to be honest I thought his portrayal CG wise was great although his acting was stiffer then wood.He should have been stiff wood man.

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Old 09-20-2013, 09:09 AM   #418
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Dag when I read these I think I threw up in my mouth.

Although I need clarification on these to know that my memeory serves me right.

Deus ex Machina Butler?

That stupid dance scene and the symbiote being used for comedy.(your saying cause he was under the suits influence?)

Harry being built up over two films, then being completely mishandled (amnesia, ugh).that amnesia thing for me is right up there with him blocking his powers in Sp2.Ooop!!!I think I threw up again.
Wow!Which could have been handled in so many different ways.I always pictured he would get the crap beat out of him then look up and see
Harry in his fathers suit.Freaking him out Physcologicaly.Which I feel was a missed oppurtunity then you could have had harry messing with him as Parker.man they let that bal drop.It could have a mental movie with action.

Harry dying for no reason.


He wanted out he didnt want to do anymore movies.Which sucks I rather they pick another actor then do things in movies because of whats happening out side of the movie in terms of contracts and things.Like why they killed off Cyclops in X3 your not hurting the actor yoyr hurting the character and the integrity of the character.There not one in the same.That like asking Patrick Steward to allow someone break his back and be crippled for the movie.You wouldnt bring out the movie situation into real life so why bring real life into the movie?
Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer.(True I thought it didnt really serve a purpose but to tie back into the first movie or give Spiderman a motive.Also with anyone of those villians it could have been a stand alone movie.It didnt need three.A Venom movie.A Goblin 2 movie (Harry).3.Or Sandman.Which to be honest I thought his portrayalCG wise was great although his acting was stiifer then wood.He should have been stiff wood man.
Harry dies to save Peter, who had his hands tied.

Immediately afterwards, Peter comes loose.

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Old 09-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #419
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Harry dies to save Peter, who had his hands tied.

Immediately afterwards, Peter comes loose.
Oh snap I never noticed that.
But they had to kill off the character because he didnt want to do any more movies he wanted out of the 3rd one as well.

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Old 09-20-2013, 12:49 PM   #420
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I think that was Raimi's "**** you" to Avad and MarvelSony.
I fixed it hehe, if that was the case...props to Raimi.

Freaking Avi Arad!

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Old 09-20-2013, 01:27 PM   #421
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Harry dies to save Peter, who had his hands tied.

Immediately afterwards, Peter comes loose.
Yeah it's silly when you put it like that, but the idea (I'm assuming) was after Peter sees someone he cares about getting harmed he musters whatever strength is left to get the job done. Like he does all the time in the books, and like he did in the fight with Norman Osborn. Struggling in a death grip, Norman says the wrong thing and in return Spidey finds the strength for Gobby's beat down.

Plus it's not like Harry would have been thrilled to live life horribly scared by his own bomb. Let alone the films themes of forgiveness and redemption that his death embodies.


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Old 09-20-2013, 01:47 PM   #422
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Harry dying isn't a problem in an of itself, it could have worked. The problem is that everything in the film up to that point had been so bungled that it didn't have the emotional impact that it should have. Also, the whole "who dies" thing made no sense. Harry and Eddie never actually killed anyone, yet they had to die. But Sandman, who actually killed people, not only gets to live, but escapes completely unpunished with Peter's blessing. That really bugged me.

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Old 09-20-2013, 01:59 PM   #423
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Harry and Eddie both had strictly personal vendettas against Peter.

But yeah I am not going to say SM3 was not bungled.

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Old 09-20-2013, 02:43 PM   #424
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True, but they never killed anyone. The guy that's ACTUALLY a murderer is the only one to live. There's something wrong with that.

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Old 09-20-2013, 02:56 PM   #425
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

The only Raimi Spidey villain that didn't kill anyone was Harry.

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