The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice > Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-22-2013, 10:26 AM   #26
Showtime
We Are Hunter Rider
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Sky
Posts: 41,403
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
Just because Batman is wiser at the beginning does not mean that that's what their dynamic will always be, let alone by the end of the movie.
Bingo. Like any good story the characters should develop and evolve over the course of the film.

__________________

Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 10:43 AM   #27
Lencho01
Shazoogle! Shazoogle!
 
Lencho01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15,407
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Batman will show Superman how to be a real superhero. 'Cuz Batman's more awesome.

__________________
I was at some diplomatic party once. Got to talking to this princess who told me that when it came to Superman, I was missing the point. She told me, "His real strength lay in his generous spirit and sense of what's fair." - King Faraday

"
Hes much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. Hes Everyman operating on a scifi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
Lencho01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 10:47 AM   #28
Skrilla31
Side-Kick
 
Skrilla31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 807
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Superman and Batman should be portrayed as equals but sadly that's not gonna happen seeing as Batman is apparently older, wiser, more experienced, and played by a big name movie star.

This is kinda like Keaton/Nicholson all over again. Cavill is gonna look so small on screen compared to Affleck unless the filmmakers really make an effort to make Superman the heart of the story.

Skrilla31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:01 AM   #29
Bathead
The Oldest Geek
 
Bathead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sumwear in Pencilvainya
Posts: 4,920
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

I really think this worry about Batman being older and more experienced meaning he's gonna make Superman look like a dupe is unwarranted and rather paranoic on the part of some of you Superman fans. I don't foresee Goyer and Snyder doing it that way.

__________________
Little fly upon the wall,
Ain't you got no friends at all?
Wanna see God?
*splat*
Bathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:03 AM   #30
Lencho01
Shazoogle! Shazoogle!
 
Lencho01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15,407
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

I don't think it'd matter what age he is. Batman's gonna come out on top somehow.

__________________
I was at some diplomatic party once. Got to talking to this princess who told me that when it came to Superman, I was missing the point. She told me, "His real strength lay in his generous spirit and sense of what's fair." - King Faraday

"
Hes much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. Hes Everyman operating on a scifi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
Lencho01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:04 AM   #31
LEVITIKUZ
HE'S COMING HOME!!!
 
LEVITIKUZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,741
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Here's the thing with me. I believe Batman should be a bit older than Superman but not by much. Superman is 33 in Man of Steel. He should be between 33-35ish in S/B. Affleck looks like he could be between 30-40. If Batman is between 1-4 years older, I'm ok with that.

LEVITIKUZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #32
Project862006
Banned User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 21,203
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

^and it is not like they look very different in age

Project862006 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:30 AM   #33
Lencho01
Shazoogle! Shazoogle!
 
Lencho01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 15,407
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

One looks like he's in his 40s and the other in his 30s to me.

__________________
I was at some diplomatic party once. Got to talking to this princess who told me that when it came to Superman, I was missing the point. She told me, "His real strength lay in his generous spirit and sense of what's fair." - King Faraday

"
Hes much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. Hes Everyman operating on a scifi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
Lencho01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 11:43 AM   #34
LEVITIKUZ
HE'S COMING HOME!!!
 
LEVITIKUZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,741
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Affleck could pull it off. Besides no one minded the Batman in BTAS & Arkham Games was around 35-40ish.

Superman should look younger because he's an alien and maybe how he ages is different.

LEVITIKUZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:06 PM   #35
Shikamaru
Side-Kick
 
Shikamaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,684
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
I wouldn't be too worried about that. The super powers would definitely set him above the Robin level for sure. Clark would prove himself equal by the end of the movie I bet.
That's the problem. It's a lose/lose situation. If you really play up the "older and wiser" angle, you will make Superman look more like a Robin. If they become equals at the end, you will make Batman look bad. Why does Batman need an entire decade of experience to be equal to a young rookie Superman that just started out? That's really insulting to Batman IMO (I know it technically can't be since Batman is not a real person but you get my point). Superman and Batman were equals from around the very beginning of their careers, which they started at around the same time, and then they grew together up to their weary/tired/seasoned years and they were still equals even then.

If Batman needs to have 10 years of being older and of more experience, what does that say about Superman in 10 years from MOS? The current Batman would be useless to him. By the logic of an "older/weary/tired" Batman being an equal to a young rookie Superman, the only reason why he is on par with him is due to the age gap. And I find that really disrespectful to the character of Batman.

Quote:
As for Batman being older and experienced, it should be considered a Benefit. Batman should be given something to set himself apart from the other god-like heroes of the Justice League, who are all probably Superman's level of being a rookie, age and experience in fighting bad guys, and being a detective etc seems like the best. Tired and weary could simply mean he's fed up and wants to retire, until a young upstart by the name of Superman inspires him to keep up the good fight.
You don't have to give Batman anything to set him apart from the rest; he already has it. The genius intellect and detective skills are not a product of him doing this for so many years but of his motivations and mental training he received prior to becoming Batman. Since the Modern Age of superheroes started in the DC universe, Batman has always been the smartest man in the room despite being the same age as Superman and the rest.

Again, it goes back to the idea that the only reason Batman can survive on the JL is due to the age gap.

Quote:
Look at it like this, which Batman cartoon do you prefer?
The young Batman who's a couple of years into his career from "The Batman" animated series



or

The older Batman from "Batman: TAS" who clearly has been doing it longer

No offense, but you've brought a horrible analogy.

Batman: TAS is a show that gave it its all while The Batman was an intentionally dumbed down & poorly written Batman show that made Batman look like an idiot half the time. There are so many problems that show has that it's ridiculous, and a younger Batman is not one of those problems. If you want to argue that a young Batman simply can't work in the JL, you should source a Batman product that at least put half an effort into itself, which The Batman didn't do.

Plus, Batman is not that old in Batman: TAS. In fact, he is only a couple of years older than Batman was in The Batman (who was around 27/28). TAS' Batman is somewhere in his late 20's to early 30's; he just started his career as Batman a few years earlier than Comic Book Batman did and that gives off the impression that he is older than he really is. Plus, TAS Batman was still around the same age as TAS Superman. If there was an age gap between them, it would be very small thus the twin-brotherly relationship was still there. Not the same thing as Batfleck who is older than Superman by 10 years and has more experience than him by 10 years.

To let you know, I have zero problems with an older more seasoned Batman. In fact, it is the type of Batman I prefer. I grew up mainly with that Batman my whole life. What I do have a problem with is making Superman or Batman older than the other one by around a two-digit number. I wouldn't mind the idea of an older Batman if this universe's Superman was older too. But since this universe's Superman is young, Batman should also be younger even if he's been doing this for a few years already.

Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:19 PM   #36
Shikamaru
Side-Kick
 
Shikamaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,684
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by LEVITIKUZ View Post
Affleck could pull it off. Besides no one minded the Batman in BTAS & Arkham Games was around 35-40ish.

Superman should look younger because he's an alien and maybe how he ages is different.
Again, people are taking this argument out of context. There is no problem with a 35-40ish Batman as long as Superman is closer to his age, which wasn't a problem in BTAS and the Arkham games. The issue lies in the two-digit age gap between the two, not in the idea of Batman being 35-40ish by itself. If Superman was also 40ish, it wouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty_Lane View Post
I'm definitely a BTAS kid! That said I'm 30, so it's rather obvious right. lol! When BTAS premiered we were looking at an approximately 35 year old Batman who'd been on the job for about 10 years already. In some episodes he looks "tired and weary"....case in point the episode I Am The Night.



In the Robin's Reckoning it's revealed that Dick Grayson has been under Bruce's care for 9 years. There's a 10 year gap between the flashback in Mask of the Phantasm and present time.



I've been hoping that the Ben Affleck Batman of Snyder's new DC cinematic universe takes inspiration from BTAS and the Arkham games. Also let's not forget that the New 52 has also made reference to Batman getting a five year head start on the rest of the Justice League members operating in the shadows as an urban legend.
Batman wasn't 35 in Batman TAS. Oldest he was in the show is early 30's (not counting The New Batman Adventures). He also started his Batman career at a younger age than Comic Book Batman (early 20's as opposed to mid 20's). By the time Superman is introduced, they're still around the same age. Bruce might be a bit older than Clark by a few years, but the age gap between them isn't too huge. We are talking of an age gap of around 10 years in between Affleck's Batman and Cavill's Superman based on everything we've heard so far.

As for the New 52, you never want to source the New 52's timeline in an argument because the timeline makes no sense at all (that's a topic for another time though). Though even in the New 52, a 5-year head start is still not that big of a difference compared to an entire-decade head start. You're mixing up more years of experience with more years of being alive. Batman might have 5 years of experience on Superman in the New 52 but the age gap between them is even smaller than that. When the Justice League formed, Batman was 30 and Superman was 27 (someone on the book confirmed it; can't remember who). That's a difference of 3 years. Again, small differences like that are no biggie.

Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:20 PM   #37
Shikamaru
Side-Kick
 
Shikamaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,684
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
^and it is not like they look very different in age
They do. Cavill looks as if he's in his late 20's while Affleck looks as if he's in his late 30's.

Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:25 PM   #38
Showtime
We Are Hunter Rider
SHH! Global Moderator
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The Sky
Posts: 41,403
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
^and it is not like they look very different in age
No they don't at all. Warner Bros have been talking about this concept for a good period of time, Batman mentoring a young Superman.

__________________

Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #39
The Guard
Side-Kick
 
The Guard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 25,804
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Superman coming across as Robin might be the most ridiculous concern people have had yet.

He's Superman, who has been saving lives for much of his life. Not a teenage kid with no experience.

I think the "older, wiser Batman" thing is an interesting and appropriate dynamic, as that's kind of always been the tone struck between Batman and Superman in modern comics anyway, even despite their closer ages. They've got something to teach each other, and more in common than they think. Batman has a more methodical, strategic way of doing things, and Superman isn't the cynical fellow Batman is, he operates with more hope for humanity.

__________________
Writer and Lyricist of GOTHAM'S KNIGHT: THE BATMAN MUSICAL

And if I'm right
The future's looking bright
A symbol in the skies at night
The Guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:39 PM   #40
Mightyally
Mr Arcade
 
Mightyally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,178
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Tbh, I think its good that they arent the same age.

Mightyally is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 12:44 PM   #41
The Question
Objectivism doesn't work.
 
The Question's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hub City
Posts: 39,204
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
Superman coming across as Robin might be the most ridiculous concern people have had yet.

He's Superman, who has been saving lives for much of his life. Not a teenage kid with no experience.

I think the "older, wiser Batman" thing is an interesting and appropriate dynamic, as that's kind of always been the tone struck between Batman and Superman in modern comics anyway, even despite their closer ages. They've got something to teach each other, and more in common than they think. Batman has a more methodical, strategic way of doing things, and Superman isn't the cynical fellow Batman is, he operates with more hope for humanity.
That's all well and good if you trust in the screenwriter and the director's ability to handle the subject matter well. I don't. I think having Batman be the more experienced hero playing out as Superman being the sub in their relationship is one of many legitimate concerns.

__________________
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
The Question is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #42
smallville fan
Hero
 
smallville fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,356
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty_Lane View Post
I'm definitely a BTAS kid! That said I'm 30, so it's rather obvious right. lol! When BTAS premiered we were looking at an approximately 35 year old Batman who'd been on the job for about 10 years already. In some episodes he looks "tired and weary"....case in point the episode I Am The Night.



In the Robin's Reckoning it's revealed that Dick Grayson has been under Bruce's care for 9 years. There's a 10 year gap between the flashback in Mask of the Phantasm and present time.



I've been hoping that the Ben Affleck Batman of Snyder's new DC cinematic universe takes inspiration from BTAS and the Arkham games. Also let's not forget that the New 52 has also made reference to Batman getting a five year head start on the rest of the Justice League members operating in the shadows as an urban legend.
Exactly what I've been saying.

smallville fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #43
TheFlamingCoco
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 7,878
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

It's all in the lighting





Cavill's Supes is 33. Make Affleck's Batman 36 or 37, and it's only a 3-4 year age difference.

TheFlamingCoco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 02:01 PM   #44
Shikamaru
Side-Kick
 
Shikamaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,684
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

They specifically said they will be going for an "older, weary, tired, and seasonal" Batman who's been doing this for a long time. That doesn't sound like a Batman that's only been doing this for 3-4 years. It sounds like a Batman with an entire decade above Cavill's Superman, in both age and experience.

Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #45
Tempest
Life is a cookie
 
Tempest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 936
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
They specifically said they will be going for an "older, weary, tired, and seasonal" Batman who's been doing this for a long time. That doesn't sound like a Batman that's only been doing this for 3-4 years. It sounds like a Batman with an entire decade above Cavill's Superman, in both age and experience.

I don't think the experience matters, or the age difference. What matters is how they're going to play it; is Batman going to always be one-upping Superman in a misguided effort (by the writer/director/WB) to make him look cooler, or is he going to be portrayed in a flawed, but still flattering manner?

That's the question that makes me wonder and worry the most.

__________________
That moment when you put the oldies station on and hear a song that was new when you were ten. Obviously, the DJ is not well-informed on what an 'oldie' actually is.
Tempest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 02:49 PM   #46
Skrilla31
Side-Kick
 
Skrilla31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 807
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

I still maintain that the only reason they're going for an "older" Batman is so that they can maintain a sort of loose continuity with the Nolan films.

Skrilla31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 02:51 PM   #47
smashmode
House Stark
 
smashmode's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,434
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

They are trying to give Batman a way to defeat Superman at least once (or get the best of him), its not going to be by strength, it has to be by guile/smarts.

smashmode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 03:13 PM   #48
afan
Side-Kick
 
afan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norwood,Ma.
Posts: 3,590
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by skaldicpoet9
There are plenty of reasons why Batman could distrust Superman, and Batman is already inherently distrusting of most people anyways.
Name them.

I find no reason why Batman could distrust Superman, and Batman is not inherently distrusting of most people. Like most great fictional detectives he has the ability to instantly and accurately judge a person on the first meeting, but he does not go into the meeting assuming the worst of any individual. He makes conclusions based on facts and evidence, but never on an uninformed blanket assumption. It's not an ear-mark of intelligence or wisdom.

__________________
"No comment, until the time limit is up."
afan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #49
Shikamaru
Side-Kick
 
Shikamaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,684
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
I don't think the experience matters, or the age difference. What matters is how they're going to play it; is Batman going to always be one-upping Superman in a misguided effort (by the writer/director/WB) to make him look cooler, or is he going to be portrayed in a flawed, but still flattering manner?

That's the question that makes me wonder and worry the most.
Experience and age does matter a lot. An age gap and experience of 10 years or over takes away from the idea that they grew up together but on different paths and from their almost twin-brotherly relationship. They're not exactly equals anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skrilla31 View Post
I still maintain that the only reason they're going for an "older" Batman is so that they can maintain a sort of loose continuity with the Nolan films.
I do think that's one of the reasons. But I think there's also other reasons:

1) They want to mimic The Dark Knight Returns.
2) They want to cast a beloved actor with an entire career behind him so that they won't have to deal with any potential backlash of not having Bale back (that's the main reason I think Affleck got cast).

Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #50
Shikamaru
Side-Kick
 
Shikamaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,684
Default Re: "...a man who is older and wiser than Clark Kent": Does this not worry anyone els

Quote:
Originally Posted by smashmode View Post
They are trying to give Batman a way to defeat Superman at least once (or get the best of him), its not going to be by strength, it has to be by guile/smarts.
Why can't a Batman the same age as Superman have the smarts to take him on? Why does Batman need to be older and have a headstart to be on the same level as him? Batman and Superman have always been equals in the DC universe.

This is what bugs me the most. It makes Batman look really bad to suggest that the only reason he is the smartest man in the JL is because he got a head-start of about a decade. That means this Batman was as weak as Nolan's Batman was in BB/TDK when they were about the same age and started their careers. Maybe not as weak, but it means that we are again getting a watered down Batman - just that it won't be as noticeable this time due to him having more experience.

Personally, I'm tired of watered down versions of Batman on the big screen.

Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.