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Old 09-26-2013, 12:38 PM   #751
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Marvel's attempting a similar scenario, testing the market to see if 'solo' films work after The Avengers.

Marvel ain't testing anything, they have a plan and thats 4 solo films then an avengers sequel, they also have a tv series running next to it, they are confident with what they are doing, and they will do it again with phase 3

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Old 09-26-2013, 09:27 PM   #752
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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FOX likes to make money, just like any studio. You don't spend the money and the time in logistics of getting all of these major actors together again purely based on a 'story whim.' There are always industrial considerations. And First Class made less than any other X-Men film relative to its cost. Where do you go from there? You hire back and repair relations with the guy that started it all. He gets the original cast back. Boom - you have instant (nearly) guaranteed blockbuster. Pretty simple logic, methinks.

I don't see a traditional First Class sequel happening beyond this. I just don't see a First Class direct sequel having the same draw -- the anticipation's just not there. FOX knows this -- thus DOFP.

I absolutely agree with you!

If FOX thinks they are gonna make more money featuring the cast that started this series, the cast that is portraying more well-known characters, they would be making more films with them. And if DOFP ends up as the top grossing X-Men film, it would encourage them more.

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Old 09-26-2013, 09:53 PM   #753
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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FOX likes to make money, just like any studio. You don't spend the money and the time in logistics of getting all of these major actors together again purely based on a 'story whim.' There are always industrial considerations. And First Class made less than any other X-Men film relative to its cost. Where do you go from there? You hire back and repair relations with the guy that started it all. He gets the original cast back. Boom - you have instant (nearly) guaranteed blockbuster. Pretty simple logic, methinks.
I don't see it as a whim either. I just don't see it as a plan by Fox to pass the torch back to the OT team.

It's possible, sure, I'm open minded to that. And I wouldn't be surprised if Fox is now flirting with the idea of what they could do with the OT team folks since almost all of them showed up again for DoFP (Halle, Ian and Patick seemed pretty eager at SDCC for more -- the latter two especially: Patrick seemed to be goading Singer into assuring that Xavier would remain "alive").

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Old 09-26-2013, 10:02 PM   #754
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Well who would have thought we would see the OT cast when the First Class film was released in 2011? I wouldn't be surprised if after DOFP, FOX makes a film just featuring them and not share the screentime with the FC cast.

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Old 09-27-2013, 05:06 AM   #755
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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FOX likes to make money, just like any studio. You don't spend the money and the time in logistics of getting all of these major actors together again purely based on a 'story whim.' There are always industrial considerations. And First Class made less than any other X-Men film relative to its cost. Where do you go from there? You hire back and repair relations with the guy that started it all. He gets the original cast back. Boom - you have instant (nearly) guaranteed blockbuster. Pretty simple logic, methinks.
You forget though that Singer is only directing DoFP because Vaughn dropped out. It was not some kind of grand plan on Fox's part to get the guy who started it all to direct again.

And if DoFP was meant to pass the torch back to the OT, they'd be the main focus of the movie. Whereas, if the movie is mainly set in the 70s, it will spend most of the time with the FC cast and Wolverine (who is a big player in the OT, but he's also somewhat separate to the rest of that cast after his own solo movies). Not to say that the studio would not consider another movie with the OT cast, but their appearance in DoFP is not a 100% indication of that. DoFP is the studio's big epic mash-up movie and a bid for Avengers-style success. It's also likely to be a one-off thing, so what they're doing afterwards is probably not clear even to the studio and filmmakers themselves.


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Old 09-27-2013, 09:49 AM   #756
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

If Cyke and Jean do not return at the end of DoFP in an altered timeline, if Storm dies or Halle doesn't want another major action role in a big budget picture, and if Jackman isn't keen on making a potential 7th feature appearance as Wolverine, then there is nothing left to market the OT. Rogue, Iceman, Kitty, and Collosus are not huge draws for the general audience. Stewart/McKellan are probably done no matter what.

So if you are gonna tell me all those things are going to happen: Cyke/Jean returning, Jackman/Halle coming back, then I agree, the OT cast is likely what they stick to. I'd also put the chances of all those things happening less than 20%. We have heard nothing but crazy rumors involving Cyke/Jean, Halle has a small role in DoFP, and Jackman might return, 50/50 I'd say. And people realistically expect this? I don't get it.

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Old 09-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #757
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Halle berrys blockbuster career isn't buzzing right now so i think she would wanna play storm again, even though i get the feeling quite alot of people feel she doesn't fit the role but lets be honest i doubt she can afford career wise to say no i don't wanna do action roles anymore

and even though patrick stewart is a great actor and is loved he hasn't got a big movie career going on so i think he would keep coming back to Xavier aslong as they kept asking him

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Old 09-27-2013, 01:51 PM   #758
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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You forget though that Singer is only directing DoFP because Vaughn dropped out. It was not some kind of grand plan on Fox's part to get the guy who started it all to direct again.
They already had Singer, in a Producing role. He wrote the story for First Class, and was planning on directing.

And Vaughn only directed First Class because Singer couldn't.

Why do you think Vaughn dropped out of DOFP? (besides his normal tendency to...)

I'll give you a hint:

The studio had a change of thought midway through development, due to various factors.
And then...'creative differences' reared their ugly head.

In many peoples' opinions, Singer's back where he should be (and where FOX originally wanted him to be), at the helm.


We're agreed on everything else.


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Old 09-27-2013, 02:03 PM   #759
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I know this isn't popular, but despite how good First Class was, I'm glad that Matthew Vaughn left the project as a director and took his misogynistic and juvenile tendencies with him. Vaughn had his shot, and he succeeded, but let's get back to someone who actually cares about the world and its characters.

I also agree with this saying that this movie is not a passing of the torch back to the main cast. The focus on the 70's, the fact that this is basically the First Class sequel, are all clear indicators that this is the new cast's franchise now. I wouldn't expect Cyclops or Jean back, Jackman (from what I know) has hinted that this could be it for him as Wolverine, Patrick and Ian aren't getting any younger, while McAvoy and Fassbender are still under contract, Jennifer is a star right now and still under contract.

It seems to me like we'll have 2 trilogies by the end of it, the main trilogy, and a First Class trilogy (X-Men: First Class, X-Men: Days Of Future Past, X-Men: First Class 3), along with 2 Wolverine movies, and any potential solo sequels, and then apparently we're getting X-Force which will be another spinoff of the universe. Also, if they ever move forward with Deadpool, there's a Deadpool spinoff waiting to be made as well.

That's a LOT of movies.

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Old 09-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #760
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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They already had Singer, in a Producing role. He wrote the story for First Class, and was planning on directing.

And Vaughn only directed First Class because Singer couldn't.

Why do you think Vaughn dropped out of DOFP? (besides his normal tendency to...)

I'll give you a hint:

The studio had a change of thought midway through development, due to various factors.
And then...'creative differences' reared their ugly head.

In many peoples' opinions, Singer's back where he should be (and where FOX originally wanted him to be), at the helm.


We're agreed on everything else.

Vaughn has never been reliable on projects, he jumped ship for secret service because he was told if he wanted to do secret service he had to start straight away, that's the reason why he ain't directing it

You can tell Vaughn wanted to make a James Bond style film that's obvious just by looking at FC and some of his comments and he will probably bring some of that to secret service

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Old 09-27-2013, 03:15 PM   #761
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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I know this isn't popular, but despite how good First Class was, I'm glad that Matthew Vaughn left the project as a director and took his misogynistic and juvenile tendencies with him. Vaughn had his shot, and he succeeded, but let's get back to someone who actually cares about the world and its characters.

I also agree with this saying that this movie is not a passing of the torch back to the main cast. The focus on the 70's, the fact that this is basically the First Class sequel, are all clear indicators that this is the new cast's franchise now. I wouldn't expect Cyclops or Jean back, Jackman (from what I know) has hinted that this could be it for him as Wolverine, Patrick and Ian aren't getting any younger, while McAvoy and Fassbender are still under contract, Jennifer is a star right now and still under contract.

It seems to me like we'll have 2 trilogies by the end of it, the main trilogy, and a First Class trilogy (X-Men: First Class, X-Men: Days Of Future Past, X-Men: First Class 3), along with 2 Wolverine movies, and any potential solo sequels, and then apparently we're getting X-Force which will be another spinoff of the universe. Also, if they ever move forward with Deadpool, there's a Deadpool spinoff waiting to be made as well.

That's a LOT of movies.
I think we should wait till we actully see the ending of DOFP and see how sucessful It Is before we start speculating on future. WHo would have thought we would get 8 actors from OT in DOFP.Some here said they couldn't
get them back.

It depends on where they want to go In future. DOFP came about due to LSD wanting to do storyline and Bryan Singer wanting to do a Godfather part II kind of story.

The only thing we know about post DOFP plans Is them planning X-force.And i am very skeptical of that being set In past.But come may 23 2004 we will get an idea by how DOFP ends what is plan for future.

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Old 09-27-2013, 03:32 PM   #762
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

It doesn't have to be one way or another though, they can do a sequel for both FC and OT and in the end that's probably what they will do, DOFP will justify the existence of both to be able to be used again

Either way you look at it you can't use how many characters the OT to justify what they plan to do next for this film series, otherwise you could also justify the FC cast having more screen time to justify the next step in this film series, its pointless

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Old 09-27-2013, 03:36 PM   #763
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Halle berrys blockbuster career isn't buzzing right now so i think she would wanna play storm again, even though i get the feeling quite alot of people feel she doesn't fit the role but lets be honest i doubt she can afford career wise to say no i don't wanna do action roles anymore

and even though patrick stewart is a great actor and is loved he hasn't got a big movie career going on so i think he would keep coming back to Xavier aslong as they kept asking him
I'm surprised you're defending the OT. I thought you were for First Class continuing the franchise.

Anyways I would agree with you on both counts though for slightly different reasons. Halle, though she may not look it, is way too old to star in any other action blockbusters nor does she need to. But I do believe that she will keep on coming back for two reasons 1) she likes the character and 2) Hugh Jackman. The two are great friends which you can tell by Hugh's comments in his various interviews and at Comic-Con. They're also the only two cast members (save for Patrick and Ian) to work together on other projects.

I really do believe that if Hugh does not come back there is the possibility, although slight, that Halle may not come back.

As for Patrick, as long as he's alive and kicking he'll always come back for more.

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Old 09-27-2013, 03:42 PM   #764
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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It doesn't have to be one way or another though, they can do a sequel for both FC and OT and in the end that's probably what they will do, DOFP will justify the existence of both to be able to be used again

Either way you look at it you can't use how many characters the OT to justify what they plan to do next for this film series, otherwise you could also justify the FC cast having more screen time to justify the next step in this film series, its pointless
If they are planning on continuing with main trilogy sequels, then I wouldn't expect any sort of major "retconning" or X-Men 3 / Origins removal. No way are they going to break / erase continuity if they are planning on sequels to that continuity.

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Old 09-27-2013, 10:11 PM   #765
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

The OT cast will always be back if they are offered by FOX to comeback. A lot of people back in 2006/2007 didn't think they would comeback for a 4th X-Men film and yet almost everybody came back for DOFP. 8 of X3's cast members are appearing in DOFP, Famke had a role in The Wolverine and Rebecca Romijn had a cameo in First Class. There's also a rumour that James Marsden will appear in the film.

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Old 09-29-2013, 05:56 AM   #766
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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If they are planning on continuing with main trilogy sequels, then I wouldn't expect any sort of major "retconning" or X-Men 3 / Origins removal. No way are they going to break / erase continuity if they are planning on sequels to that continuity.
If a new timeline is established by the time travel, they don't have to erase anything. It still exists in its own timeline. That's what they did in Star Trek.

It depends if they follow the Star Trek model or opt for something different, such as the changes made in the past having a ripple effect through the existing films and making SOME changes to events/outcomes.

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Old 09-29-2013, 09:45 AM   #767
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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If a new timeline is established by the time travel, they don't have to erase anything. It still exists in its own timeline. That's what they did in Star Trek.

It depends if they follow the Star Trek model or opt for something different, such as the changes made in the past having a ripple effect through the existing films and making SOME changes to events/outcomes.
Yes a new timeline does erase everything.That makes everything that had exsisted ilrelvent.Star Trek Into darkness doesn't even try to stick to anything.
There are reasons many longtime trek fans gave thumbs down to Into Darkness.

Too many praise what abrams did way too much.Instead of alternate timeline BS
they should just reboot all the way.

Plus your going to have war among fandom.If you think first Class VS OT Is bad now just imagine if OT,and the wolverine are erased by end of DOFP.

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Old 09-29-2013, 09:55 AM   #768
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Yes a new timeline does erase everything.That makes everything that had exsisted ilrelvent.Star Trek Into darkness doesn't even try to stick to anything.
There are reasons many longtime trek fans gave thumbs down to Into Darkness.

Too many praise what abrams did way too much.Instead of alternate timeline BS
they should just reboot all the way.
Yeah, lets stop the praise and start hating on the guy who brought the franchise back from the dead and widened the audience while trying to pay respects to the original.

So much negativity. Bottom line is it worked, and it's goen on round 3 soon.

If Singer wan'ts to do something similar then let it be. Both are his casts and creations, he knows what's possible for future films more then we do. Fans of the OT should just be excited he's still around and involved with both casts regardless.


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Old 09-29-2013, 10:18 AM   #769
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Yeah, lets stop the praise and start hating on the guy who brought the franchise back from the dead and widened the audience while trying to pay respects to the original.

So much negativity. Bottom line is it worked, and it's goen on round 3 soon.

If Singer wan'ts to do something similar then let it be. Both are his casts and creations, he knows what's possible for future films more then we do. Fans of the OT should just be excited he's still around and involved with both casts regardless.
Yeah by turning it into Star Wars lite there are many longtime fans who aren't happy with the way trek has gone.Including people who liked trek 2009 but were disillionshed with Into darkness.

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Old 09-29-2013, 10:32 AM   #770
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Every single franchise has those fans. How many reboots are out there that scored that high with critics and audiences? That film was a success in every major way. Abrams did his job well, hence the praise.

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Old 09-29-2013, 10:47 AM   #771
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Every single franchise has those fans. How many reboots are out there that scored that high with critics and audiences? That film was a success in every major way. Abrams did his job well, hence the praise.
I keep hearing from people reboots are answer to all problems and everyone
loves them.

people are selective when it comes to critcs.Some who think Man of steel Is greatest comic book film ever explan at best mixed reaction to it a conspiracy by critics

Into Darkness has at best a mixed reaction among longtime fans.Many didn't
like it while there are some who did.

If you think the debates on say last stand was bad just wait for them if they pull a Abrams and erase most of films.

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Old 09-29-2013, 11:03 AM   #772
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

Certain films gain a higher reaction then others and personal opinion differs. Again, Star Trek was a huge hit for the franchise in every way. Critics, audiences and box office. Abrams hit the goal there. That's why he gets the praise. In Star Treks case a reboot was the answer.


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Old 09-29-2013, 11:53 AM   #773
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

DoFP is a direct sequel to TLS/TW and acts as a sequel to FC. I wouldn't be surprised if they do go on with the OT cast.

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Old 09-29-2013, 12:04 PM   #774
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

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Certain films gain a higher reaction then others and personal opinion differs. Again, Star Trek was a huge hit for the franchise in every way. Critics, audiences and box office. Abrams hit the goal there. That's why he gets the praise. In Star Treks case a reboot was the answer.
Or you know, it could have been left.

Why do these same universes have to constantly be retold in different versions?

I have no desire to see Kirk, Spock, Sulu, Ohuru, etc... again. I saw them. They were done wonderfully by Shatner, Nimoy, Takei, Nichols, etc...

THAT STORY HAS BEEN TOLD

Move on to something else.

Reboots are the worst thing to happen to Hollywood.

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Old 09-29-2013, 12:39 PM   #775
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Default Re: "Romeo & Juliet Return?": The Official Jean Grey/Cyclops Debate - Part 1

I've been a Star Trek fan since the 80s, when I used to tape episodes of the original series when they aired at midnight and watch them when I got home from school the next day. I've seen all of the films in the theater except for the original film and the third. I was raised by a family full of Star Trek fans going back to when the original series first aired.

And I (bleep)ing love both of the new JJ Abrams films. My family of Trek-nerds loves them too.

If a reboot is done right, it can be done.

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