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Old 10-06-2013, 06:52 AM   #51
Rodrigo90
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Originally Posted by TheFlamingCoco View Post
He looks the part. I have both a copy of Begins and Year One at home, and I can tell you, they have different personalities.

BUT, I think Oldman's gonna be really tough to MATCH.
Oldman's take was very mousey and meek. He was always tough inside, of course. He was like a quiet schoolkid, surrounded by baduns, raging to break out inside. Probably throughout most of his Cop career, he had to keep his down to avoid trouble. Then when Batman turned up, he found his strengths that had long been suppressed.

Cranston, with just his voice, was a different Gordon. He was certainly stronger. But they had things in common where Batman was involved.

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I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:02 AM   #52
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Superman attacked Batman in TDKReturns because Lex Luthor kept the Kryptonian city of Kendor. Lex put Superman under pressure. And again Batman is not crazy maybe he's tormented but he's not crazy.
Ah. I forgot about TDK Strikes Again. That was the reason. But this comes from a tale where Superman knows Batman inside and out. He won't in this movie. For all Superman knows, Batman might be a public enemy.

Batman isn't crazy. I wouldn't even say tormented. He's disturbed. Tormented, sounds too strong. He's not mentally crippled.
He was traumatized in his youth by a murder, and who he is today as a result, is Batman.
The memory haunts him, but it doesn't torture him.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:09 AM   #53
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Ah. I forgot about TDK Strikes Again. That was the reason. But this comes from a tale where Superman knows Batman inside and out. He won't in this movie. For all Superman knows, Batman might be a public enemy.

Batman isn't crazy. I wouldn't even say tormented. He's disturbed. Tormented, sounds too strong. He's not mentally crippled.
He was traumatized in his youth by a murder, and who he is today as a result, is Batman.
The memory haunts him, but it doesn't torture him.
Ah you forgot TDK Strikes Again then read it again because Superman is not dumb. Batman wanted vengeance in the beginning he learned how to control himself you can use all the word you want batman is not traumatized.

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Old 10-06-2013, 07:18 AM   #54
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

If the government doesn't blackmail Superman. Superman will never work for the government.

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Old 10-06-2013, 08:32 AM   #55
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

He won't work for them. But if they ask him, nicely, would he refuse?

And look up 'traumatized'. You'll see a lot of symptoms Batman has and still displays today, through the traumatising event, of watching his parents be murdered. You are Scarred for LIFE.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:42 AM   #56
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
He won't work for them. But if they ask him, nicely, would he refuse?

And look up 'traumatized'. You'll see a lot of symptoms Batman has and still displays today, through the traumatising event, of watching his parents be murdered. You are Scarred for LIFE.
Superman is not corrupt he will never work for the government if the government doesn't blackmail Superman that's canon. Batman has the full control of himself that's canon too.

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Old 10-06-2013, 08:57 AM   #57
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

He won't work under them.
But if his COUNTRY needed him, would he turn down requested help from the Government? If the Government wanted a criminal removed, who they feel is a a threat to National security, would Superman not help them?
I see no reason why he wouldn't, especially if he thinks he's doing the right thing.

Batman does have full control.
He's not crazy.

But have you never seen moments, where he sits alone, thinking to himself? Remembering his traumatic past? If he wasn't traumatized, things wouldn't torture or torment him, right?
Some writers have it manifest strongly, better examples would be in films like Batman 89, Returns and Forever.
Whilst other writers for the comics don't put emphasis on it, and that's shown in TDKT.

Just because his trauma is downplayed nowadays, it doesn't mean it's non existent deep down. He wouldn't be who he is.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:01 AM   #58
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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I see no reason why he wouldn't, especially if he thinks he's doing the right thing.
You are right. I wouldn't call it 'being manipulated' per se if Superman more or less agrees with the idea the government is pushing, and in turn helps build relations between them.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:08 AM   #59
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

Agreed.

Batman in this film could be a catalyst as to why Superman refuses to work under the Government again, it would obviously cause discomfort between Nations. Together, they form the Justice League. Not just for America, but for the entire world.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #60
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
He won't work under them.
But if his COUNTRY needed him, would he turn down requested help from the Government? If the Government wanted a criminal removed, who they feel is a a threat to National security, would Superman not help them?
I see no reason why he wouldn't, especially if he thinks he's doing the right thing.

Batman does have full control.
He's not crazy.

But have you never seen moments, where he sits alone, thinking to himself? Remembering his traumatic past? If he wasn't traumatized, things wouldn't torture or torment him, right?
Some writers have it manifest strongly, better examples would be in films like Batman 89, Returns and Forever.
Whilst other writers for the comics don't put emphasis on it, and that's shown in TDKT.

Just because his trauma is downplayed nowadays, it doesn't mean it's non existent deep down. He wouldn't be who he is.
You think Superman is corrupt that's your opinion, you think Batman is a lunatic that's your opinion, you have a strange opinion on your superheroes.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:14 AM   #61
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

I wouldn't be surprised if the Corto Maltese war is an issue within the film.
That's what pissed off Bruce with Clark in TDKReturns.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:18 AM   #62
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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You think Superman is corrupt that's your opinion, you think Batman is a lunatic that's your opinion, you have a strange opinion on your superheroes.
I think Superman is corrupt because he simply wants to help his Government? Even if the premise came from him being tricked into believing Batman was a villain?

And I believe Batman is a lunatic because of his traumatic past, which would affect anybody in some degree?

Okay.

__________________
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:19 AM   #63
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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I wouldn't be surprised if the Corto Maltese war is an issue within the film.
That's what pissed off Bruce with Clark in TDKReturns.
Superman has been blackmailed by the government Superman will never attack other country for the government.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:21 AM   #64
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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I think Superman is corrupt because he simply wants to help his Government? Even if the premise came from him being tricked into believing Batman was a villain?

And I believe Batman is a lunatic because of his traumatic past, which would affect anybody in some degree?

Okay.
Superman can stop a meteorite but he will never attack an other country and he will never do the dirty work for the government.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #65
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

If America was at threat, Superman wouldn't help his country?

Remember, this is a Superman still finding himself. He's still a rookie. He's not as sure of things as he is in the comics. He's still finding his feet.
I'm sure an issue like this would arise in this continuity.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:32 AM   #66
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

The problem is that some people think Superman will do the dirty work for the government and that he can't think by himself, like in the comics Superman has to be under unfair pressure to obey the government. In MOS we saw that Superman will not be controlled by the government.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:37 AM   #67
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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If America was at threat, Superman wouldn't help his country?

Remember, this is a Superman still finding himself. He's still a rookie. He's not as sure of things as he is in the comics. He's still finding his feet.
I'm sure an issue like this would arise in this continuity.
Superman is not Dr manhattan jeez.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:43 AM   #68
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

I agree with that.

He won't be owned.
But right now, he's still in no position to go against them. Superman wants them to understand him and be on his side.
He can judge the situation, and he can give his opinion if they requested his help.
But they know he has immense power and it can be useful.
It's why I want him to fall victim to that, at least once, to show the extremity of the point.

And by the end, he's not an agent to the US, he's an agent to the world. And the Governments accept this, allowing the JL to form. It's about gaining the Trust of everybody, not just one country.

__________________
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:46 AM   #69
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Superman is not Dr manhattan jeez.
I'm not asking for things to go that far. Manhatten was a voiceless toy for them to use.

__________________
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:48 AM   #70
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Originally Posted by Rodrigo90 View Post
I agree with that.

He won't be owned.
But right now, he's still in no position to go against them. Superman wants them to understand him and be on his side.
He can judge the situation, and he can give his opinion if they requested his help.
But they know he has immense power and it can be useful.
It's why I want him to fall victim to that, at least once, to show the extremity of the point.

And by the end, he's not an agent to the US, he's an agent to the world. And the Governments accept this, allowing the JL to form. It's about gaining the Trust of everybody, not just one country.
Come on that's not Superman.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:51 AM   #71
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

That's what I mean.

He's not the Superman we all know and love yet.
He's a rookie, still growing. MOS showed us that, or at least, me.

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"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:54 AM   #72
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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That's what I mean.

He's not the Superman we all know and love yet.
He's a rookie, still growing. MOS showed us that, or at least, me.
At the end of MOS we saw that Superman had full control and that he will not follow the government.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:56 AM   #73
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

There is different type of Kryptonite Lex Luthor could use Kryptonite to control Superman.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kryptonite

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Old 10-06-2013, 10:00 AM   #74
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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At the end of MOS we saw that Superman had full control and that he will not follow the government.
Very true. He'll help, but on his terms.

However, in simplistic terms. Would he feel controlled, if they simply asked for help, from a threat?

He won't involve himself with outside business, but if his country was under threat, surely he would help?

__________________
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles "
Christopher Reeve

I believe in Batfleck

Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:06 AM   #75
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Default Re: What OTHER elements from The Dark Knight Returns could we see?

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Very true. He'll help, but on his terms.

However, in simplistic terms. Would he feel controlled, if they simply asked for help, from a threat?

He won't involve himself with outside business, but if his country was under threat, surely he would help?
Like i said before he can help for a disaster, Superman will not do the dirty work for the government get over it already.

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