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Old 10-06-2013, 05:02 AM   #876
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TDK had a lot of leaps of logic. My thought on the matter is that the more you enjoy something, the more forgiving you are. I didn't enjoy TDKR very much, so its problems bother me more than TDK's even if they are equally nonsensical.
I know what you mean, but people act like BB & TDK have no flaws and I can rip those movies apart if I want.

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Old 10-06-2013, 05:18 AM   #877
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Yeah like the Joker rigging in no time a Hospital and two ferries with explosives without anyone noticing, were not plot holes... I don't see anyone making topics about those issues, but making threads about "Bruce coming back to Gotham" ? It's a freaking movie!
I see where you are coming from.

With Rises I thought that the plot holes contradicted things said earlier (like Bane finding out where Batman keeps his stuff, it was stated by Fox that it was off the books) or where it stretched my believe to the point where it seemed too unrealistic (Blake's discovery and trapping virtually every freakin cop underground).

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Old 10-06-2013, 10:24 AM   #878
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With Rises I thought that the plot holes contradicted things said earlier (like Bane finding out where Batman keeps his stuff, it was stated by Fox that it was off the books)
Although it isn't explicitly stated in the film, one can assume that Bane was able to find the Applied Sciences lab thanks to having Miranda/Talia "on the inside" for quite some time before the events of the film began. It's not a leap that a woman like Talia could find out the location with a little investigative work. After all, it was basically underneath Wayne Enterprises wasn't it?

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Old 10-06-2013, 10:43 AM   #879
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Although it isn't explicitly stated in the film, one can assume that Bane was able to find the Applied Sciences lab thanks to having Miranda/Talia "on the inside" for quite some time before the events of the film began. It's not a leap that a woman like Talia could find out the location with a little investigative work. After all, it was basically underneath Wayne Enterprises wasn't it?
Yup. They took the elevator down there right from Fox's office. Considering Talia knew Bruce was Batman and had assumed he was getting his gear for W.E., and she spent some years as a mole working with the company I can buy it. Reese stumbled upon the schematics for the Tumbler without even knowing what he was looking for. To me it's more fantastical that Bane was even able to successfully set up a base that housed an entire army in Gotham's sewers in the first place, than the fact that they were able to place it right under Applied Sciences.

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TDK had a lot of leaps of logic. My thought on the matter is that the more you enjoy something, the more forgiving you are. I didn't enjoy TDKR very much, so its problems bother me more than TDK's even if they are equally nonsensical.
I completely agree with this. As a TDKR fan, I've said the same exact thing numerous times. I enjoy both TDK and TDKR, so although I recognize flaws and leaps of logic in both of them, ultimately that doesn't change my gut feeling about the films, as I was engaged, thrilled and moved by the stories they told.

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Old 10-06-2013, 11:06 AM   #880
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Just because you don't see something happen on screen, doesn't make it a plot-hole.

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Old 10-06-2013, 11:09 AM   #881
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BB and TDK had plot holes too. Everything has at least a few plot holes here and there. However, I think the plot holes in those films are fairly small and aren't big enough to take away from the film(s). TDKR has some really major plot holes though IMO. It's not just "leaps in logic". There is also "what the hell is going on right now" logic and also some character plot holes.

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Yeah like the Joker rigging in no time a Hospital and two ferries with explosives without anyone noticing, were not plot holes... I don't see anyone making topics about those issues, but making threads about "Bruce coming back to Gotham" ? It's a freaking movie!
I don't think they were plot holes. By the third act, Joker had the entire Gotham mob at his side in the most corrupt city in America. I can buy that such guy with such connections could rig a hospital and two ferries. Heck, in a city like Gotham anything can easily be rigged by a criminal mastermind (which is what the Joker is).

Or maybe it doesn't bother me because that's how the Joker's been for decades. Seriously. That's kinda how he operates. I guess it's part of his unpredictable nature. You turn around for a second and....surprise, surpise ....he's taken over Arkham Asylum.

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Old 10-06-2013, 11:20 AM   #882
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Just because you don't see something happen on screen, doesn't make it a plot-hole.
By its very nature, being a movie with such a large scope, where weeks and months can elapse in a single cut, there was inevitably going to be a lot of off-screen happenings in order to get to the meat of the story. But that also helps create a feeling of vastness and richness, where you can really see this as a living and breathing world that you can immerse yourself in. I think each movie got successively better in creating this feeling, due in part to the accumulative effect of all the world-building done in each film and the fact that we saw different aspects of Gotham in each film.

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Old 10-06-2013, 12:45 PM   #883
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Although it isn't explicitly stated in the film, one can assume that Bane was able to find the Applied Sciences lab thanks to having Miranda/Talia "on the inside" for quite some time before the events of the film began. It's not a leap that a woman like Talia could find out the location with a little investigative work. After all, it was basically underneath Wayne Enterprises wasn't it?
I might be wrong but in TDK they burned down all the documents about Batman's tech, relations and presumably the location of it all.

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Old 10-06-2013, 12:48 PM   #884
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I might be wrong but in TDK they burned down all the documents about Batman's tech, relations and presumably the location of it all.
Well, Bruce and Alfred burned the documents that were in their possession. Who's to say there weren't some more floating around W.E.? Don't forget, in that very same movie Reese stumbled upon the schematics for the Tumbler.

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #885
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Well, Bruce and Alfred burned the documents that were in their possession. Who's to say there weren't some more floating around W.E.? Don't forget, in that very same movie Reese stumbled upon the schematics for the Tumbler.
Who's to say Bruce didn't round up everything in W.E. and take it to burn. Where do you think all those files came from in the first place? Bruce did say burn everything that could lead back to Lucius or Rachel.

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:34 PM   #886
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Well, Bruce and Alfred burned the documents that were in their possession. Who's to say there weren't some more floating around W.E.? Don't forget, in that very same movie Reese stumbled upon the schematics for the Tumbler.
Then at the end of the fight scene they could have had Bane show Bruce a document and have him say "you can't burn the truth no matter how hard you try" *also shows HD's photo.

True, but he had documents mentioning the tumbler, he had no idea of it's whereabouts as it was "off the books".

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:38 PM   #887
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Who's to say Bruce didn't round up everything in W.E. and take it to burn. Where do you think all those files came from in the first place? Bruce did say burn everything that could lead back to Lucius or Rachel.
Countering one hypothetical scenario with another hypothetical scenario doesn't really help dispel the fact that it's entirely possible Talia could have found the location to Fox's lab and given it to Bane.

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:47 PM   #888
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I still wanna know how Talia knew Bruce was Batman. Did Ra's call her up right before he died on the train, and say, "in case this doesn't go according to plan, Bruce is Batman, and his armory is under Wayne Manor....but I have no clue where the nuke is. You'll have to sleep your way to that one. Sorry about excommunicating Bane. Please avenge me. Love you boo-boo"?

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:52 PM   #889
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Talia probably found out through the LOS. That was never really an issue for me.

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:52 PM   #890
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I still wanna know how Talia knew Bruce was Batman. Did Ra's call her up right before he died on the train, and say, "in case this doesn't go according to plan, Bruce is Batman, and his armory is under Wayne Manor....but I have no clue where the nuke is. You'll have to sleep your way to that one. Sorry about excommunicating Bane. Please avenge me. Love you boo-boo"?
Yes. Nolan used editing trickery to hide the phone call from us.

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Old 10-06-2013, 01:54 PM   #891
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Yes. Nolan used editing trickery to hide the phone call from us.
I knew it!

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Old 10-06-2013, 02:09 PM   #892
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As far as we know, all the LOS guys we saw in Begins disappeared and/or blended in with escaped Arkham inmates after their plan went awry. Gordon says nothing of apprehending any terrorists at the end of Begins and seems to be completely in the dark about the LOS. So yeah, any leftover LOS guys from Begins would know Bruce's identity and the fact that he trained with them and burned their temple.

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Old 10-06-2013, 02:10 PM   #893
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Heh, apparently I need to use a lot more emoticons and gifs.

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Old 10-06-2013, 02:14 PM   #894
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Gotham doesn't even know the LOS attacked them in BB. They know something attacked them, but not that it was the LOS.

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Old 10-06-2013, 02:17 PM   #895
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How did Talia know who Bruce was? Umm, the league of shadows? Ras? That's a no brainer.

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Old 10-06-2013, 03:13 PM   #896
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How did Talia know who Bruce was? Umm, the league of shadows? Ras? That's a no brainer.
Nope. She was orphaned. She recognized the look on his face.

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Old 10-06-2013, 03:15 PM   #897
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Nope. She was orphaned. She recognized the look on his face.
Hardy har.

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Old 10-06-2013, 03:30 PM   #898
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Nope. She was orphaned. She recognized the look on his face.

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Old 10-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #899
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Some people need new jokes around here..

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Old 10-06-2013, 03:38 PM   #900
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