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View Poll Results: Which character do you prefer?
Superman / Clark Kent 27 56.25%
Batman / Bruce Wayne 21 43.75%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-07-2013, 03:59 AM   #26
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

You know, the irony of Clark and Bruce is that they're both individuals who probably understands the most on what it means to live to like a everyday person and in the same time, they couldn't be farther away from that concept.

Bruce may be human physically, one that has achieved the best conditioning that a human body can obtain, and yet in the same time, he's a billionaire, so he really wouldn't know what it means to suffer the things that average/middle class people go through every day.

I mean, people say that anyone can be batman, but that's pretty far from the truth when you consider on how a lot of the stuff that Batman uses requires a lot of money that needs to be used in order to pay for that stuff.

Now with Superman, he's pretty much like a God when it comes to his powers and persona within the world, and yet he comes from a humble background and experienced the life of a regular person.

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Old 10-07-2013, 07:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

Team Bats

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Old 10-07-2013, 08:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
The connection he is making is Batman beating up insane criminals who assault, murder, rape, and terrorize citizens is somehow something that kids draw on to bully quiet, oddball, cerebral kids who are doing nothing wrong. That's ridiculous. If anything, it's an example of bullying or physically engaging the bullies, who might be a little messed up in the head. I can agree that that is not always the best way to handle things, especially in the school setting.
Actually, when you put it that way, it makes things even worse, because really this isn't Batman's fault, but the writers' who insisted on using the insane to be the bad guys in the first place.

I'm not even certain that the characters could be classified as 'insane' in the legal sense at all in the first place. There's definitely levels of psychological disorders, but I'm not sure that would qualify as making them insane. Has that been dealt with at all in modern comics, or has that kind of been ignored? I admit to a rather appalling amount of info on Superman, but my comic love for Batman is more sporadic.

Basically, the writers used a vulnerable segment of the population to turn into bad guys. Insane = criminal = Batman justifiably beating up on them. That may not have been the OP's original concern, but it's one that has bothered me for quite some time.

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Old 10-07-2013, 09:23 AM   #29
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

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Actually, when you put it that way, it makes things even worse, because really this isn't Batman's fault, but the writers' who insisted on using the insane to be the bad guys in the first place.

I'm not even certain that the characters could be classified as 'insane' in the legal sense at all in the first place. There's definitely levels of psychological disorders, but I'm not sure that would qualify as making them insane. Has that been dealt with at all in modern comics, or has that kind of been ignored? I admit to a rather appalling amount of info on Superman, but my comic love for Batman is more sporadic.

Basically, the writers used a vulnerable segment of the population to turn into bad guys. Insane = criminal = Batman justifiably beating up on them. That may not have been the OP's original concern, but it's one that has bothered me for quite some time.
I'm not saying every Batman villain or criminal is insane, just as you said that would be a very broad statement that simply doesn't hold true when you look at all of them. I'm saying this for the criminals who are referred to as having mental issues of some kind, which is what the OP was referring to. In that case, the analogy to picking on odd kids is inaccurate, unless they are the bullies doing bad things to other kids.

I agree with you about the the actual characterization of mental illness; the writers of Batman comics have clearly not always gotten it right. I think a lot of the time the characters described as having some kind of mental illness are simply showing a potential symptom of a disorder, but there's not enough information to classify the character by the DSM-IV. Even the Joker has been misclassified at times. Or they are displaying a personality type that isn't socially agreeable, but still wouldn't be considered a mental illness. At the same time, I've never gotten the sense that the writers have blatantly made "mental illness" synonymous with "bad," rather that "some people with mental illness doing bad things is bad." Batman doesn't go around at night punching people in the face or harassing them just because they look like they might be a little strange. And Batman himself is routinely described by other citizens of Gotham (and sometimes authority figures) as crazy or insane, yet we identify with him as a hero because he stops criminals. The writers have also made it so he has shown serious signs of depression, OCD, PTSD, among other things though we probably can't classify him as having those conditions.

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Old 10-07-2013, 11:50 AM   #30
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks View Post
I'm not saying every Batman villain or criminal is insane, just as you said that would be a very broad statement that simply doesn't hold true when you look at all of them. I'm saying this for the criminals who are referred to as having mental issues of some kind, which is what the OP was referring to. In that case, the analogy to picking on odd kids is inaccurate, unless they are the bullies doing bad things to other kids.
Oh yes, I agree. I did say that I thought I had potentially strayed from the OP's original thought, and you did clarify for me that I had. -grin-

I don't know that Batman beating up bad guys is necessarily opening kids up to be physically aggressive towards people who are different -- but it might make them more aggressive in other ways. That's pure speculation, I have nothing to back it up -- and I feel necessary to use the disclaimer that I do love Batman dearly. I'm just pondering one aspect of his comics that bothers me.

Quote:
I agree with you about the the actual characterization of mental illness; the writers of Batman comics have clearly not always gotten it right. I think a lot of the time the characters described as having some kind of mental illness are simply showing a potential symptom of a disorder, but there's not enough information to classify the character by the DSM-IV. Even the Joker has been misclassified at times. Or they are displaying a personality type that isn't socially agreeable, but still wouldn't be considered a mental illness. At the same time, I've never gotten the sense that the writers have blatantly made "mental illness" synonymous with "bad," rather that "some people with mental illness doing bad things is bad." Batman doesn't go around at night punching people in the face or harassing them just because they look like they might be a little strange. And Batman himself is routinely described by other citizens of Gotham (and sometimes authority figures) as crazy or insane, yet we identify with him as a hero because he stops criminals. The writers have also made it so he has shown serious signs of depression, OCD, PTSD, among other things though we probably can't classify him as having those conditions.
I would point out that at the same time he's been called crazy, he's also been referred to as a criminal, which simply reinforces the "insane = criminal" analogy I was referring to. It is absolutely certain that the writers have used mental illness as a plot device. I have to tread carefully, since I don't know much about Batman's history, but I would assume that most of the 'mentally ill' characters came at a time when there was little to no public information on the matter.

As with Superman's powers, I realize there has to be a good deal of hand-waving to let things slide with Batman. I'm just curious about the development of this particular subject. -wanders off to Wiki in search of answers-

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Old 10-07-2013, 12:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

Some people who have mental illness are bad and do bad things for sure, or are criminally insane, but some of them are quietly trying to deal with it on their own. I just hope that young kids don't get the message that all mental illness is bad in the sense that it must be stopped! Because of course it is not. Some people are taking their medication each and every day to keep it under control and do not need someone to put them in their place which is what I worry about a little with young kids reading Batman.

Sure, Batman is more interesting, but I just don't want Superman to disappear. I feel like as time goes on, it is getting harder and harder to release a Superman movie and that now we NEED Batman in a Superman movie in order for it to make any kind of money or to be a decent movie. I just hope the character doesn't disappear. That he was a good character a few decades ago or as a yesteryear character, but these days, he just doesn't sell. But that Batman is flying off the shelves faster than... ehem a speeding bullet.

I think one thing I like about Superman and all the characters is, understand first, beat up and deal with after. He will sit you down and ask you what you are doing, he won't pummel you. With Batman it is beat down first and if you're lucky, you get to explain yourself. He doesn't care if you got beaten up as a child, he doesn't care if you are struggling with a mental illness, he doesn't care if you're life has been entirely tragic. He will beat the ***** out of you if he thinks you seem dodgy. I know it is a bit of a stretch, but I always liked how understanding Clark/ Superman is. He really listens to others' stories. And people always act like Batman/ Bruce Wayne is such a better character on every level. It does make sense why Batman sells more, but as I said, I just don't want Superman to disappear, because people seem to act as though there is nothing about the character of Clark/ Superman worth reading about.

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Old 10-08-2013, 09:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

Actually, it would be nice to see Superman taking on a more global responsibility.
When he's not having to deal with Batman or Lex Luthor.
Sure, he's an American hero, that's just part of who he is, but I'm sure the rest of the
world (myself included) would like to see Superman help out from time to time.....although that would be a neat character thread to follow, how Superman copes with having the fate of the world on his shoulders.

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Old 10-08-2013, 10:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

I love them both. They're both awesome characters. However, when it comes down to it, I'm a Superman fan first.

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Old 10-09-2013, 03:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

I think the reason I am Team Bats over Team Supes is probably because I have reason far better comic books that involved Batman. You can run them off one after the other. The amount of amazing Superman stories I've read (imho) I can list on one hand;
1) Red Son
2) Whatever happened to...
3) All Star Superman
4) Superman vs The Elite
5) Superman for All Season

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Old 10-10-2013, 02:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

^ Granted that I have read more Superman comics than Batman, but it always seemed to me that the balance of memorable stories between the two was relatively equal.

I would add The Death and Return of Superman to the list you provided. But where Batman is concerned, it seems to me that he has a similar number of classic tales (in the same way that Bats and Supes each have a similar amount of feature films to their name).

In no particular order, I would include in such a list for Batman:

1) Knightfall
2) The Dark Knight Returns
3) Batman: Year One
4) The Long Halloween
5) Hush

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Old 10-10-2013, 05:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: Team Bats or Team Supes / Team Clark or Team Bruce

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Originally Posted by spider-neil View Post
I think the reason I am Team Bats over Team Supes is probably because I have reason far better comic books that involved Batman. You can run them off one after the other. The amount of amazing Superman stories I've read (imho) I can list on one hand;
1) Red Son
2) Whatever happened to...
3) All Star Superman
4) Superman vs The Elite
5) Superman for All Season

Then you are missing out my friend ! I liked your choices but let me add to that list

1) for the man who has everything, (possibly best 1 off Superman story ever! Written by Alan Moore, all hail Alan Moore, who also wrote your no 2 fave).

2) Man of Steel, the John Byrne Superman reboot -the first attempt to make the character relevant in the 21st century (way ahead of its time, as it was written in 1986 !)

3) Superman:Brainaic, by Geoff Johns. Seamless tie in with New Krypton,
a tight story, triumph and tragedy.


4) Last son. I'll admit there's been way too much Zod, in the last decade, and I kind of wish Superman would finish him off, much the same way Snyder's did. However, we get to see a different side of Clark Kent here, a paternal side.
Also, Geoff Johns again, with Richard Donner, the man himself who first
put Superman on the big screen (well, in colour anyway !)


5) Grounded: I just liked it, there you go.


and of course there's also Birthright (which wasn't my fav, but is highly acclaimed) and Kingdom come (which is essentially a Superman story)
and the Return to Krypton....

So,you are free to be on team Batman, and I don't blame you
because he's an equally great character, and I have a big list of
his greatest stories which are equally captivating reading.

However, you should have a read of some of the stories
I mentioned before dismissing the Last son of Krypton so easily.

There's a reason Superman's been around for 3/4 of a century.

cheers.

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