The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

[A Necessary Evil]

Forgot about him too, and yes, he has made valid points about Killian/Mandarin vs Trevor/Mandarin.

[Ken-Kaniff]

Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil

See, I'd be okay with hardcore Mandarin fans being angered by the twist. Really, I would. However, up until IM3, how many Mandarin fans, much less Iron Man (comic book) fans were there? I know Tony_Stark (the user on here) is a pro, he seems to know his stuff. I think Kedrell may have been a fan too, but other than that, I never heard anyone digging the Mandarin. Now yes, it is a slight disappointment that he turned out to be an actor, because Kingsley was really, really promising and menacing. But after that...what happens? Kingsley uses power rings to fight a much younger looking Stark? Meh. I really love what they did with the twist, and love it the more I think about it.

Maybe that's the reason or one of the reason why they even did it this way.

I'm fine with the whole movie anyway, IM1 is still my favorite, IM2 my least favorite, IM3 somewhere in between. But I enjoyed all 3 of them and I can't see why so many find IM3 HORRIBLE or as horrible as Elektra, it's absurd.

[TeeKay]

Originally Posted by Surfer

After discussing the Mandarin with Teekay in a different thread, and having similar debates with Michael Chen regarding the character amongst others months ago. I guess I ultimately feel this way on the subject. I would have been okay with Killian as the Mandarin, as Killian shares many traits & qualities similar to the Mandarin from the comics. However, while a person or character truly is who they are on the inside (and I really feel they got that part of the character right), with such a visual medium like comics or movies I feel it is equally integral they get the look and powers of the character correct externally (which seemed off the mark). Also, I think that if Killian's powers were not just making him seem like one of the many extremis soldiers, it would have helped to separate him as a different & more menacing villain overall, and while Killian's look as a business man may have made sense for the movie (& even connected him to certain versions of the character from the comics), this look in my opinion did little to identify him as a unique villain & to me seemed very unimaginative for a comic book villain from a design stand point. If Marvel does bring him back, I hope they do more to tie Killian to the rings of power from the comics, even if through him using powers from his hands in the form of the extremis virus versus the actual rings. Also, I hope they do more to give him a more specific and individualized identifying look that resembles one of the other iterations of the Mandarin from the comics. At that point I could definitely see Killian as becoming the Mandarin from the comics, because as it stands now I feel we may have gotten the Mandarin in this movie, but I still feel we only got half the Mandarin from the comics.

Surfer

I agree with you man. However as it stands, Killian is the MCU Mandarin whether we like it or not. We all have to remember that the MCU and the comics are two different universes, they're not canon.

[S. Grundy]

Originally Posted by Ken-Kaniff

Maybe that's the reason or one of the reason why they even did it this way.

I'm fine with the whole movie anyway, IM1 is still my favorite, IM2 my least favorite, IM3 somewhere in between. But I enjoyed all 3 of them and I can't see why so many find IM3 HORRIBLE or as horrible as Elektra, it's absurd.

Hyberbole thy name is fanboy.

[Ken-Kaniff]

Originally Posted by S. Grundy

Hyberbole thy name is fanboy.

What do you mean?

[Lord]

I was disapointed with the twist, since i loved the Mandarin's portrayal in the trailers and thought there was a lot of potencial with the idea of a super terrorist, could even put the USA ang government's morals into question.

But we got what we got, and Killian is the MCU's Mandarin, so i'd rather they use him than abandon him, or give a lame excuse to turn Trevor into the Mandarin or reveal another "Real" Mandarin. Say whatever you want about Loki but i think the MCU doesn't have very strong villains right now, Killian isn't really worse than any of them, i'd actually rate him quite highly in the scale.

Iron Man 3 is the only film of the MCU which i like the more i watch, i thank Shane Black for making the film so entertaining, i'm excited for what he'll bring to Doc Savage.

[S. Grundy]

Originally Posted by Ken-Kaniff

What do you mean?

Fanboys love to engage in hyperbole.

[Ken-Kaniff]

Originally Posted by S. Grundy

Fanboys love to engage in hyperbole.

Whatever.

[Senator Pleasury]

"Hyberbole thy name is fanboy" is a hyperbole.

[A Necessary Evil]

Originally Posted by Ken-Kaniff

Whatever.

He wasn't making fun of you, lol

[S. Grundy]

Yeah, I was actually agreeing wholeheartedly with what he was saying.

[Green Goblin]

On repeat viewings the film get better,

But the twist gets worse.

[fixxxer]

Misunderstanding thy name is message board.

[Lord]

While disapointed by the twist i don't think it gets worse with repeated viewings, Killian wasn't really a bad villain, he certainly ranks highly when it comes to MCU villains since they're not really all that great, even Loki, who has a large following and is very well liked by the fanbase, is kind of a weak villain.

[Green Goblin]

Originally Posted by Lord

While disapointed by the twist i don't think it gets worse with repeated viewings, Killian wasn't really a bad villain, he certainly ranks highly when it comes to MCU villains since they're not really all that great, even Loki, who has a large following and is very well liked by the fanbase, is kind of a weak villain.

If the twist was sooner we might have seen him fleshed out more.

All we got was a fire breathing Bruce Lee who claimed to be a different character.

[Lord]

The twist happened even before the middle of the film, and no, what we got was a confident egotistical maniac, who controled and supervisioned terrorism, hiding with decoys, created AIM, was a genius and didn't even need his scientist to take care of his Extremis anymore, almost replaced the president, almost killed stark and was able to stand against Iron Man without having to use an iron suit.

Didn't really need more fleshing out.

[OcStat]

High-five!

[Green Goblin]

They tried to do what Nolan did with his Batman films in the sense that they added political subtext and commentary. The difference?

The Dark Knight was at heart, still a Batman vs Joker story that just happens to be socially/politically relevant.

With Iron Man 3 it felt like Shane Black went out of his way to have this IMO. The twist did not feel natural and necessary to where the story was going.

I'm not a fan of how they executed it either.

[DarthDaveBanner]

I would have been more accepting of the twist if Killian were a more interesting villain than the one we were lead to believe Kingsley was.

[Visualiza]

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

With Iron Man 3 it felt like Shane Black went out of his way to have this IMO. The twist did not feel natural and necessary to where the story was going.

I can't understand how you can come to this conclusion after watching the film. Killian used Trevor as a face for terrorism and to draw America, and the rest of the world, away from his trail. Sensible, and considering the nature of what he was up to(Not to mention the looming threat of other heroes like...Thor and the Hulk), very necessary. This was explained more than enough times in the film.

Originally Posted by Green Goblin

I'm not a fan of how they executed it either.

Herein lies your problem. You didn't like it, thus you claim that it was unnecessary. Doesn't work that way.

[A Necessary Evil]

Yeah, it was totally explained why. I feel like alot of the reasons people complain about this movie is moreso not paying attention, really.

[Visualiza]

Either not paying attention, or not wanting to. There has most definitely been a bandwagon of backlash, if you will, with this film that still continues to snowball, and it has clouded people's judgment of this film if you ask me. I used to think that our fan community was a bit more keen than that, especially since so many people love to wax philosphical about TDK, but apparently not. IM3 featured much more nuance than either of its predecessors, but all people care to focus on is Trevor Slattery, while sweeping all of that nuance(his included) under the rug. It astonishes me that IM3 catches more heat than The Wolverine, a film that unquestionably butchered a much more popular villain, the Silver Samurai, and there was nowhere near the amount of thought, relevance, and creativity that went into the decision, either. A lot of the film connoisseurs in this community are perpetrating a fraud, as far as I'm conerned; this summer has simply reminded me of how fickle they can be.

[A Necessary Evil]

I agree, I think IM3 was the smartest of not only the Iron Man movies, but the MCU movies too. There's a massive bandwagon approach, as I said before that people focus on the "raping of the Mandarin", whose fans I never saw anywhere until IM3. I understand wanting what we got in the trailer, but how else would you play it out? Kingsley duking it out with RDJ using power rings? I agree TW went into excessiveness over the ending (didn't bother me in the slightest), but focusing on TS seems to be the big debate here, not the fact that people wanted Marvel to quit playing it safe and take risks, then the second they do, it's a big controversy.

[BigThor]

Originally Posted by A Necessary Evil

I agree, I think IM3 was the smartest of not only the Iron Man movies, but the MCU movies too. There's a massive bandwagon approach, as I said before that people focus on the "raping of the Mandarin", whose fans I never saw anywhere until IM3. I understand wanting what we got in the trailer, but how else would you play it out? Kingsley duking it out with RDJ using power rings? I agree TW went into excessiveness over the ending (didn't bother me in the slightest), but focusing on TS seems to be the big debate here, not the fact that people wanted Marvel to quit playing it safe and take risks, then the second they do, it's a big controversy.

Originally Posted by Visualiza

Either not paying attention, or not wanting to. There has most definitely been a bandwagon of backlash, if you will, with this film that still continues to snowball, and it has clouded people's judgment of this film if you ask me. I used to think that our fan community was a bit more keen than that, especially since so many people love to wax philosphical about TDK, but apparently not. IM3 featured much more nuance than either of its predecessors, but all people care to focus on is Trevor Slattery, while sweeping all of that nuance(his included) under the rug. It astonishes me that IM3 catches more heat than The Wolverine, a film that unquestionably butchered a much more popular villain, the Silver Samurai, and there was nowhere near the amount of thought, relevance, and creativity that went into the decision, either. A lot of the film connoisseurs in this community are perpetrating a fraud, as far as I'm conerned; this summer has simply reminded me of how fickle they can be.

Man these two posts really hit home with me, it's like you guys took my exact feelings and put them in words. The part about the Silver Samurai bothering was very true, it was pretty bad certainly ALOT worse than the Mandarin twist. I wonder why no one makes nearly as much of a big deal about that, I'm starting to think alto of it is hatred due to the extreme success of Iron Man 3.

[Nathan]

Both Movies changed their villains. But I was a lot more ok with the change that wasn't treated like an SNL skit.