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Old 10-10-2013, 04:51 PM   #876
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As was the nightclub fight scene. When I saw TDK for the first time, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Who knew Batman bashing skulls in a nightclub could be SO COOL??
It would be ludacris not to love Batman in da club throwin dem bows.

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Old 10-10-2013, 04:52 PM   #877
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I think all the potential is there for a great Blake story. Exploring the rebuilding of Gotham after Bane's siege would be very interesting in and of itself. It'd be a completely new story. Different Gotham, different hero.

I do wish DC would publish a one-off Blake story. I think Kyle Higgins (current Nightwing writer) would be the perfect man for the job. He was a huge Blake fan too, going as far as saying it was his favorite aspect of the movie. Maybe if enough people tweeted him he could get things moving.

Actually, now that I think of it, there was a Matrix comic released after the third movie came out with a bunch of short stories done by various writers and artists, and it explored some different aspects the post-Revolutions world. I'd love to see something like that done by a bunch of the best Batman writers and artists. One team could catch us up with Gordon, another could do Blake, another could show us what Bruce and Selina are up to, another from the eyes of a random Gothamite and day to day life during the rebuilding period, etc. Could be really fun as a one-off. It would only be as "in canon" as Gotham Knight is.

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Old 10-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #878
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I think all the potential is there for a great Blake story. Exploring the rebuilding of Gotham after Bane's siege would be very interesting in and of itself. It'd be a completely new story. Different Gotham, different hero.

I do wish DC would publish a one-off Blake story. I think Kyle Higgins (current Nightwing writer) would be the perfect man for the job. He was a huge Blake fan too, going as far as saying it was his favorite aspect of the movie. Maybe if enough people tweeted him he could get things moving.

Actually, now that I think of it, there was a Matrix comic released after the third movie came out with a bunch of short stories done by various writers and artists, and it explored some different aspects the post-Revolutions world. I'd love to see something like that done by a bunch of the best Batman writers and artists. One team could catch us up with Gordon, another could do Blake, another could show us what Bruce and Selina are up to, another from the eyes of a random Gothamite and day to day life during the rebuilding period, etc. Could be really fun as a one-off. It would only be as "in canon" as Gotham Knight is.
I have the Matrix Comics - those and the Animatrix are awesome! They didn't delve into the world post-Revolutions though, it just took place in that world.

I would be so stoked if DC ever did something like that for the TDK trilogy, but I think the time for that has passed. Gotta strike when the iron is hot, and they're already on the next new thing. Nolan's obviously moved on as well...

But we could do one ourselves! Some of the folks who got hired to do the TDK viral marketing game actually got started by doing a similar Matrix game as fans.

Ugh shauner111, now you've gotten me thinking of what Blake might be up to after TDKR. I picture him as uber-Anonymous - hacking into bureaucrats' and politicians' emails to get Gotham's rebuilding moving much faster than it otherwise would have. He's smart and knows he doesn't have the physical skills that Bruce has. That he'd don the cape and cowl and pick up exactly where Bruce left off, I always thought was a preposterous notion.

Bruce teaching him to wear masks doesn't literally have to be about putting on a Batman cowl. He just needs to hide his identity when he's out and about. Matches Malone making a comeback?

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Old 10-10-2013, 05:58 PM   #879
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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I have the Matrix Comics - those and the Animatrix are awesome! They didn't delve into the world post-Revolutions though, it just took place in that world.

I would be so stoked if DC ever did something like that for the TDK trilogy, but I think the time for that has passed. Gotta strike when the iron is hot, and they're already on the next new thing. Nolan's obviously moved on as well...

But we could do one ourselves! Some of the folks who got hired to do the TDK viral marketing game actually got started by doing a similar Matrix game as fans.

Ugh shauner111, now you've gotten me thinking of what Blake might be up to after TDKR. I picture him as uber-Anonymous - hacking into bureaucrats' and politicians' emails to get Gotham's rebuilding moving much faster than it otherwise would have. He's smart and knows he doesn't have the physical skills that Bruce has. That he'd don the cape and cowl and pick up exactly where Bruce left off, I always thought was a preposterous notion.

Bruce teaching him to wear masks doesn't literally have to be about putting on a Batman cowl. He just needs to hide his identity when he's out and about. Matches Malone making a comeback?
Yeah, it's been SO long since I read The Matrix comics, but I just researched it and there was one story featuring "Morpheus and Kid", the last one in the 2nd volume. At the time I probably mistook for being post-Revolutions, cause it was implying that he was the next One, but I clearly I was just a 17 year old fanboy with an overactive imagination.

Hey, if there was ever a movement to do something like that I'd love to be involved in whatever way I could. There is no shortage of talented writers and artists in this community...in no way am I one of them, but I do have ideas from time to time and love collaborating. It wouldn't have to only be post-Rises either, there's plenty of gaps in the Nolanverse ripe for fan fiction (esp. Bane/Talia/Ra's/LoS backstory) and it could just be a general "Tales from Gotham and Beyond" sort of thing.

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Old 10-10-2013, 05:59 PM   #880
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Nice Blake as Nightwing or Batman, it doesn't bother me. I think there's a great argument for both sides. I never thought that he would be a vigilante right away anyhow. It would take quite a bit of time. I think there's enough time for training and getting his **** together when the city needs rebuilding. The focus would be on the people and the city itself for a while. The story may have to begin years later.

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Old 10-10-2013, 06:32 PM   #881
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Nice Blake as Nightwing or Batman, it doesn't bother me. I think there's a great argument for both sides. I never thought that he would be a vigilante right away anyhow. It would take quite a bit of time. I think there's enough time for training and getting his **** together when the city needs rebuilding. The focus would be on the people and the city itself for a while. The story may have to begin years later.
I don't think Blake would just sit back while that happens around him though. The computer is there at the cave and so is the lab - he can start using it right away, even if his lack of physical skills make him work only behind the scenes for a while.

I dunno, I think that Blake and Wayne's vastly different backgrounds would result in different modus operandi. Yes, they are both orphans, but Bruce's history as a Wayne (a "prince of Gotham") likely caused him to take more of a tyrannical "I will beat you until you give me what I want" approach. And taking the whole theatricality thing from the LoS. That and he was a thrillseeker and if there was any excuse to do something crazy, he'd take it.

Blake has no such history - he was a cop and helped out at the boy's home, showing them that there is a future beyond the orphanage. He works with the system to do what he can, and I don't see that changing THAT drastically when he's given a method to help beyond the law.

Remember, we consider the folks at Anonymous to be vigilantes too. Reading about their exploits is like even if it's boring if they ever made a TV movie about it.

Not that that I WANT Blake to be completely un-cinematic, but at this point, a boring vigilante is much better for Gotham than a theatrical one.

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Old 10-10-2013, 06:49 PM   #882
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Well considering there won't be any further movies made about Blake, I'm perfectly okay with him being an "un-cinematic" type of hero in my imagination.

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Old 10-10-2013, 08:12 PM   #883
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

A male oracle to the GCPD perhaps?

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Old 10-10-2013, 08:18 PM   #884
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At first, I think so. Until he gets his own training then he's good to go.

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Old 10-10-2013, 08:32 PM   #885
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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A male oracle to the GCPD perhaps?
I'm actually thinking he'll recruit the press more than the police. That might be fun.

Being an Oracle to the GCPD still implies that there's someone there who can take the information and run with it, and it isn't guaranteed that there's anyone who will do that, aside from Gordon. Well, by now everyone knows Gordon was in cahoots with Bruce's Batman so...who knows.

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Old 10-10-2013, 11:11 PM   #886
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

I imagine Blake would use Bruce's resources to help Gordon put together a clean police force. That hacker aspect is very interesting. A tangent, but I'm more interested in spin off comics about Bane, Talia and Catwoman.

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Old 10-10-2013, 11:49 PM   #887
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I imagine Blake would use Bruce's resources to help Gordon put together a clean police force. That hacker aspect is very interesting. A tangent, but I'm more interested in spin off comics about Bane, Talia and Catwoman.
Yup, by hacking into their records before they get hired.

I'm not really interested in Bane or Talia. You kind of know their journey already - it was somewhat like Bruce's, except they became murdering psychopaths instead of channeling it into a more positive path.

I've been reading post-TDKR fanfiction, mostly about Bruce and Selina, because figuring how they both put their pasts behind them is a really interesting proposition. A lot of them get out-of-character though, especially with Selina, and it starts to piss me off. Like they write Selina as a stone-cold b***h for no reason, carrying guns wherever she goes. Yeah, she gets into verbal jabs with Bruce early on in TDKR, but she wasn't completely coldhearted, especially at the end. And she doesn't carry handguns. The only point in TDKR where she used a handgun is when she grabbed it off of Stryker.

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Old 10-11-2013, 12:52 AM   #888
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I'd love to see a one-off story of the Dent Act being passed and taking affect in Gotham, with Gordon and co. apprehending the rest of the mob, the creation of Blackgate and the like. The real meat of the narrative would be seeing Bruce watch Batman become obsolete and shifting his energies into the fusion reactor project. I just love the idea of Batman becoming irrelevant in a city that no longer needs him (at the time anyway) and Bruce having to work as 'Bruce Wayne' to keep trying to do good, ultimately futile.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:12 AM   #889
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Me too man! Id love that. I still think there's an actual story to tell in that era where Bruce does discretely go out as Batman once in a while until it seems to become more and more useless. And how Bruce copes with that and tries to shift his energy into full-time Bruce. This is still of course years before he becomes a recluse.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:22 AM   #890
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I've been reading post-TDKR fanfiction, mostly about Bruce and Selina, because figuring how they both put their pasts behind them is a really interesting proposition. A lot of them get out-of-character though, especially with Selina, and it starts to piss me off. Like they write Selina as a stone-cold b***h for no reason, carrying guns wherever she goes. Yeah, she gets into verbal jabs with Bruce early on in TDKR, but she wasn't completely coldhearted, especially at the end. And she doesn't carry handguns. The only point in TDKR where she used a handgun is when she grabbed it off of Stryker.
I've been doing some reading too and I've found a few gems (my favorite is one where it read almost like an international spy BatCat AU - the author travels a lot so she knows her locations well and I loved that) but I noticed the same thing you did with a lot of them. It almost seems like the only way some can make her badass is to make her cold-hearted to Bruce's love sick puppy version which they both weren't by the end of TDKR. Heck, I'd even argue that she fell in love first in TDKR (ok, maybe love is too strong of a word, but more like, getting soft) than Bruce who was (understandably) more concerned at that time with saving Gotham.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:25 AM   #891
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Me too man! Id love that. I still think there's an actual story to tell in that era where Bruce does discretely go out as Batman once in a while until it seems to become more and more useless. And how Bruce copes with that and tries to shift his energy into full-time Bruce. This is still of course years before he becomes a recluse.
I think there's enough wiggle room to say that he didn't immediately stop being Batman at the end of Knight but that it was a protracted tapering off in the most secretive way to avoid any police attention. After all, the Dent Act and the building of Blackgate wouldn't have taken full effect overnight.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:53 AM   #892
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I just went back a few pages and saw this and

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I'd love to see a one-off story of the Dent Act being passed and taking affect in Gotham, with Gordon and co. apprehending the rest of the mob, the creation of Blackgate and the like. The real meat of the narrative would be seeing Bruce watch Batman become obsolete and shifting his energies into the fusion reactor project. I just love the idea of Batman becoming irrelevant in a city that no longer needs him (at the time anyway) and Bruce having to work as 'Bruce Wayne' to keep trying to do good, ultimately futile.
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Me too man! Id love that. I still think there's an actual story to tell in that era where Bruce does discretely go out as Batman once in a while until it seems to become more and more useless. And how Bruce copes with that and tries to shift his energy into full-time Bruce. This is still of course years before he becomes a recluse.
Trying to find them on Fanfiction.net. Failing. Although you do get some....really weird...and slightly disturbing....stuff when you do a search for the characters of Gordon AND Batman.

I guess nobody's raring to write a story where the hero ends up a depressed recluse at the end of it.

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I've been doing some reading too and I've found a few gems (my favorite is one where it read almost like an international spy BatCat AU - the author travels a lot so she knows her locations well and I loved that) but I noticed the same thing you did with a lot of them. It almost seems like the only way some can make her badass is to make her cold-hearted to Bruce's love sick puppy version which they both weren't by the end of TDKR. Heck, I'd even argue that she fell in love first in TDKR (ok, maybe love is too strong of a word, but more like, getting soft) than Bruce who was (understandably) more concerned at that time with saving Gotham.
That sounds familiar to Chinese Boxes - I just found that one and I'm SO glad someone's finally writing their mutual thrillseeking and flirtatious verbal jabs in. That one's probably my favorite so far.

Although I'm very plot-focused so I tend to skip over the paragraphs of descriptions about where they are and which model of car they're driving.

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Old 10-11-2013, 04:16 AM   #893
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^ Yes! I'm talking about Chinese Boxes. It's one of the most well-balanced fics I've read so far plus what they're doing now in that story is totally what I envisioned for their characters after TDKR.

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Old 10-11-2013, 04:43 PM   #894
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^ Yes! I'm talking about Chinese Boxes. It's one of the most well-balanced fics I've read so far plus what they're doing now in that story is totally what I envisioned for their characters after TDKR.
for finding some good (yet sometimes overly wordy ) fanfic!

Plus, you know Bruce and Selina won't be able to stay away from some of their patented fun even if they don't have their costumes anymore.

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Old 10-11-2013, 09:23 PM   #895
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Heck, I'd even argue that she fell in love first in TDKR (ok, maybe love is too strong of a word, but more like, getting soft) than Bruce who was (understandably) more concerned at that time with saving Gotham.
Selina entered his life via a break-in at his house. Ever since Bruce did the chasing. But indeed, didn't mean she wasn't interested. At the ball, she is more combative, but with a sense of play. And also "why didn't you call the police?"

When Bruce visits her apartment and she says she's sorry he lost his money, I think she's half way there. Being ironic and also a bigger sense of interest forming in the guy. She sees him coming down to her level. When Bruce hands over the clean slate after Selina beats up those would be apple snatchers, she definitely is holding back feelings. It's unconditional on his part, and keeps coming back. Then it finally becomes "come with me" at the batpod handover.

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Old 10-11-2013, 10:04 PM   #896
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Selina entered his life via a break-in at his house. Ever since Bruce did the chasing. But indeed, didn't mean she wasn't interested. At the ball, she is more combative, but with a sense of play. And also "why didn't you call the police?"

When Bruce visits her apartment and she says she's sorry he lost his money, I think she's half way there. Being ironic and also a bigger sense of interest forming in the guy. She sees him coming down to her level. When Bruce hands over the clean slate after Selina beats up those would be apple snatchers, she definitely is holding back feelings. It's unconditional on his part, and keeps coming back. Then it finally becomes "come with me" at the batpod handover.


"would be apple snatchers" .

They did a very good job with that progression. It's very simple and gradual how Bruce and Selina end up together.

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Old 10-12-2013, 12:07 AM   #897
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Selina entered his life via a break-in at his house. Ever since Bruce did the chasing. But indeed, didn't mean she wasn't interested. At the ball, she is more combative, but with a sense of play. And also "why didn't you call the police?"

When Bruce visits her apartment and she says she's sorry he lost his money, I think she's half way there. Being ironic and also a bigger sense of interest forming in the guy. She sees him coming down to her level. When Bruce hands over the clean slate after Selina beats up those would be apple snatchers, she definitely is holding back feelings. It's unconditional on his part, and keeps coming back. Then it finally becomes "come with me" at the batpod handover.
I think she already had a soft spot for him when she broke into his safe.

She's a professional thief. Why did she stick around to get caught, looking at his old photos? She could have jumped out his window a minute before and he would have been none the wiser.

The fact is, he intrigued her - despite what his public image was, clearly he was not her usual mark. So she stayed a bit to try and figure him out.

Note that he did the same after she toyed with him and jumped out of his window. It's not everyday that Bruce meets someone (let alone an attractive woman!) with similar skills and who enjoyed using those skills as much as he did.

I also find it interesting that Selina admits to being the thief as soon as Bruce accuses her. She could have pulled the helpless maid act longer as she skittered around him and escaped (clearly he couldn't run after her on that cane), but she acknowledged that he was her match, being as intelligent as she was. Again, not her usual mark. I don't see her admitting to ruses that often when she's caught in one.

Although I believe that Bruce "chasing" her for the first half of the film was him trying to mentor her. Leading her onto the right path, because he felt that her abilities were being used in ways harmful to herself and others. And of course she didn't come looking for him because in her eyes, she is Miss Independent and don't need no help from no man!

But she has a crush on the Batman (who wouldn't, honestly?) and that carried over when she found out who he really was. But even before then, I maintain that he intrigued her. Even if she was in denial about it.

It's only after Bruce resolves to take the bomb over the bay (well, and Tatelia reveals herself as a murdering psychopath), that he realizes he and Selina had the same life goals all along - to be free of their pasts. And why not spend it with someone who's basically your counterpart?

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They did a very good job with that progression. It's very simple and gradual how Bruce and Selina end up together.
It might be too gradual for some, but I like the way they went about it. They weren't head over heels for each other, but clearly there was mutual admiration there that started to become something more. I'm not a lovey dovey kind of person myself.

I also find it interesting that Tatelia (accidentally? On purpose?) was Rachel 2.0, and that's why Bruce was attracted to her. She lectured him (that makes the Rachel link obvious ) and he pretty much put her on a pedestal, even though he was blind to the fact that Selina was a much better match for him personality-wise. He just wanted what he knew. And earned a good hard lesson from that.

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Old 10-12-2013, 12:16 AM   #898
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Yeah Talia was the evil Rachel, no doubt about it.

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Old 10-12-2013, 12:41 AM   #899
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

Yep. The moment where she drew attention to Rachel's picture in Wayne Manor while seducing Bruce is what really spelled it out for me. She really was pure femme fatale. What's interesting is I've heard some arguments that Rachel was a femme fatale in her own way too.

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Old 10-12-2013, 12:58 AM   #900
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Default Re: Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
Yep. The moment where she drew attention to Rachel's picture in Wayne Manor while seducing Bruce is what really spelled it out for me. She really was pure femme fatale. What's interesting is I've heard some arguments that Rachel was a femme fatale in her own way too.
What evidence have you heard supporting the idea that Rachel was a femme fatale? Would you say Bruce's attraction to her was rooted in her being the last link left to his childhood, or perhaps her being his friend at a traumatic point in his life?

I picked up on that too, Anita.

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“Evil is nothing but a word, an objectification where no objectification is necessary. Cast aside this notion of some external agency as the source of inconceivable inhumanity – the sad truth is our possession of an innate proclivity towards indifference, towards deliberate denial of mercy, towards disengaging all that is moral within us. But if that is too dire, let’s call it evil. And paint it with fire and venom.”
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