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View Poll Results: What's your favorite Iron Man movie?
Iron Man 109 66.87%
Iron Man 2 8 4.91%
Iron Man 3 46 28.22%
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:28 PM   #176
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Default Re: Rank the Iron Man movies (IM, IM2, and IM3)

I watched Im2 the other day, and I have to say I enjoyed it more than my last viewing of IM3, I will have to watch both again to be sure, but IM3 may be bottom of the group now.

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Old 10-14-2013, 08:33 PM   #177
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How? Nobody did anything in that movie. The villains were completely wasted, and honestly the movie really only gets by on the performances of RDJ, Cheadle, Paltrow, and Rockwell.

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Old 10-14-2013, 08:38 PM   #178
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How? Nobody did anything in that movie. The villains were completely wasted, and honestly the movie really only gets by on the performances of RDJ, Cheadle, Paltrow, and Rockwell.
Well there is the perfomances, and the action was good and it links into the Avengers very well, although still a little too much.

With IM3 it seemed nobody did much either, Tony didnt change at all, nor did Pepper, Killian was the only one who changed and the Mandarin thing, which I thought worked on 1st viewing, I now view as a mistake. Rhodey/Iron Patriot was just a joke the whole movie and barely got any action. Tony was barely in the suit either. Plus the action wasnt really a big improvement on the rest of the franchise.

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Old 10-14-2013, 08:48 PM   #179
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He didn't change? I disagree. He went from being 110% dependent on the suits, to being able to function as a human again, while always confirming his place as Iron Man. I still don't see the problem with the Mandarin thing??!? We got the Mandarin, there was no "hey we got the mandarin for you LOL KIDDING here's Killian."

Killian is the Mandarin. There's even an article out there somewhere that proves the comic influences on this. I will agree I wanted more War Machine/Patriot, but here, his role felt natural, unlike IM2 where he was shoe horned in. I'd rather see short bursts of action, with great character moments, that tons of action with little character moments. Now, back to the twist, here's my question for you :

Suppose Kingsley wasn't Slattery. He was really the Mandarin. Well, for the third act, what do you do? He has to go toe-to-toe with Stark, otherwise there's no point. He'd essentially take Killian's place at the finale, but that would be god awful. Really glad they didn't give him the rings, plus seeing old Kingsley square off against Downey Jr. Then there's "well what do you do with Aldrich?" This isn't comic Aldrich, who was in like, a panel and then killed himself. This one felt no remorse for what he had to do.

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Old 10-14-2013, 09:01 PM   #180
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He didn't change? I disagree. He went from being 110% dependent on the suits, to being able to function as a human again, while always confirming his place as Iron Man. I still don't see the problem with the Mandarin thing??!? We got the Mandarin, there was no "hey we got the mandarin for you LOL KIDDING here's Killian."

Killian is the Mandarin. There's even an article out there somewhere that proves the comic influences on this. I will agree I wanted more War Machine/Patriot, but here, his role felt natural, unlike IM2 where he was shoe horned in. I'd rather see short bursts of action, with great character moments, that tons of action with little character moments. Now, back to the twist, here's my question for you :

Suppose Kingsley wasn't Slattery. He was really the Mandarin. Well, for the third act, what do you do? He has to go toe-to-toe with Stark, otherwise there's no point. He'd essentially take Killian's place at the finale, but that would be god awful. Really glad they didn't give him the rings, plus seeing old Kingsley square off against Downey Jr. Then there's "well what do you do with Aldrich?" This isn't comic Aldrich, who was in like, a panel and then killed himself. This one felt no remorse for what he had to do.
The problem with the Mandarin thing was that Ben Kingsley in the earlier scenes was an amazing Mandarin. Then to find it out it was Killian was very dissapointing. They could have still had Killian being the one to fight Tony in the Finale, but Kingsley could still have been the Mandarin.

You say in the movie, Tony was 100% relying on the suits, and yet he barely spent any time in them, so that is a big flaw in the movie. In 3 of the biggest action scene's in the movie he was in the suit for about 5 mins, yet he relies on them? Doesnt fly.

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Old 10-15-2013, 11:10 PM   #181
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Okay, but he still has to go toe-to-toe with Tony. You don't build up a massive foe, then have him do someone else's work. You simply rule from behind the scenes.

Also, he wasn't in them too much because he was separated from them, and the suit was damaged, you know, when he got shot to Tennessee. I would think of all people you would be fine with a hero not being in the movie for the entirety of it, Ang Lee didn't have the Hulk appear until some 40 minutes+ in.

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Old 10-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #182
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Default Re: Rank the Iron Man movies (IM, IM2, and IM3)

Iron Man, Iron Man 3, Iron Man 2 although IM3 is the most entertaining to me.

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:16 AM   #183
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Default Re: Rank the Iron Man movies (IM, IM2, and IM3)

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Okay, but he still has to go toe-to-toe with Tony. You don't build up a massive foe, then have him do someone else's work. You simply rule from behind the scenes.
But Mandarin could have been the guy behind the scenes and Killian was the physical threat, Tony, or disappointingly, Pepper defeats him then either Mandarin gets away or dies in a way were its not definitive.

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Also, he wasn't in them too much because he was separated from them, and the suit was damaged, you know, when he got shot to Tennessee. I would think of all people you would be fine with a hero not being in the movie for the entirety of it, Ang Lee didn't have the Hulk appear until some 40 minutes+ in.
He didnt have any problem calling the other suits in at the end, didnt see much stopping from calling a suit from his location he could use at any one time, yet he waits until the end and calls all of them at once? Again, doesnt fly. Fair enough when Killian has him captive he could only call the Mach 42 then but other times he could have told Jarvis to send him a suit.

And with regards to the Hulk, origin movies are different, they need a build-up. And when Hulk did come on screen he was Hulk, not just some suit being remote controlled from miles away with no danger to the hero himself.

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Old 10-20-2013, 07:49 AM   #184
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Okay one, the Mandarin was the BTS villain AND the physical threat.

"You simply rule from behind the scenes, because the second you give evil a face, you hand the people a target."

AKA, I worked behind the scenes, gave someone else the face of evil, while I did things behind the scenes.

Also, yes he had no issue calling the suits at the finale...after Mark 42 had been repaired. Would you have rather had the spectacle of all 42 suits in Killian's mansion, or for the finale?

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Old 10-20-2013, 01:44 PM   #185
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The problem with the Mandarin thing was that Ben Kingsley in the earlier scenes was an amazing Mandarin. Then to find it out it was Killian was very dissapointing. They could have still had Killian being the one to fight Tony in the Finale, but Kingsley could still have been the Mandarin.

You say in the movie, Tony was 100% relying on the suits, and yet he barely spent any time in them, so that is a big flaw in the movie. In 3 of the biggest action scene's in the movie he was in the suit for about 5 mins, yet he relies on them? Doesnt fly.
The twist of the Mandarin being Killian wouldn't have worked if the audience didn't believe Kingsley was the Mandarin. That was the genius of the whole deception. Killain fit the theme of the movie very well and made for an effective Mandarin. He just didn't have rings of power. He was more like a combination of Mandarin and the Melter. The Mandarin was always able to go toe to toe with Stark, and it is funny that in many early issues, the Mandarin was believed to be a myth.

I can understand Killian didn't have the rings or the look of the classic Mandarin, and this lack iconography burns many fans. But, I think the spirit of the character worked in many ways.


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Old 10-20-2013, 02:35 PM   #186
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The twist of the Mandarin being Killian wouldn't have worked if the audience didn't believe Kingsley was the Mandarin. That was the genius of the whole deception. Killain fit the theme of the movie very well and made for an effective Mandarin. He just didn't have rings of power. He was more like a combination of Mandarin and the Melter. The Mandarin was always able to go toe to toe with Stark, and it is funny that in many early issues, the Mandarin was believed to be a myth.

I can understand Killian didn't have the rings or the look of the classic Mandarin, and this lack iconography burns many fans. But, I think the spirit of the character worked in many ways.
Agreed 100%

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Old 10-20-2013, 02:55 PM   #187
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LOL!!! I love it

I think Killian is very underrated around these parts. Which like I said, I can easily see why. But, i think when you strip down the character (and take away the classic iconography we tend to associate with the Mandarin), I feel like Killian works in that role. I'm far more critical of how the chest piece removal was handled than anything concerning Killian.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:11 PM   #188
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LOL!!! I love it

I think Killian is very underrated around these parts. Which like I said, I can easily see why. But, i think when you strip down the character (and take away the classic iconography we tend to associate with the Mandarin), I feel like Killian works in that role. I'm far more critical of how the chest piece removal was handled than anything concerning Killian.
I know it sort of amazes me how much of the Mandarin spirit Killian has once you get past the fact that he doesn't look like him. Yeah the chest peice was removal was done very poorly, I mean seriously if it was that simple it should've been done in IM1.

But back to Killian, I think he's just awesome my only gripe with him is that he should've used his fire breath atleast two more times.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:20 PM   #189
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I know it sort of amazes me how much of the Mandarin spirit Killian has once you get past the fact that he doesn't look like him. Yeah the chest peice was removal was done very poorly, I mean seriously if it was that simple it should've been done in IM1.

But back to Killian, I think he's just awesome my only gripe with him is that he should've used his fire breath atleast two more times.
Exactly. They needed to do more with the Asian heart doctor's plot in order to make taking away the chest piece work better. As it stands, it makes Tony just look lazy/dumb. Also, it sort of contradicts the speech he made to Banner in Avengers (about accepting yourself).

But as for Killian, I love the fight between he and Stark. But, I do think Stark at some point should have tried ranged combat against Killian, and then he gets whacked by fire breath. That would have been cool. The thing I liked most was he felt like someone who was powerful enough to beat Stark. I never got that from Vanko in IM2. Vanko seemed like a nuisance, and Stark was basically fighting himself more than the actual villains. Much like Stane in IM1, Killian felt like a real threat. This is a big reason it is superior to IM2 for me.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:41 PM   #190
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But as for Killian, I love the fight between he and Stark. But, I do think Stark at some point should have tried ranged combat against Killian, and then he gets whacked by fire breath. That would have been cool. The thing I liked most was he felt like someone who was powerful enough to beat Stark. I never got that from Vanko in IM2. Vanko seemed like a nuisance, and Stark was basically fighting himself more than the actual villains. Much like Stane in IM1, Killian felt like a real threat. This is a big reason it is superior to IM2 for me.
Yeah the fight between Killian and Iron Man is the best hero/villain fight of the MCU so far imo. It was just so intense, you could tell they both wanted each other dead in cold blood and the fast pace really helped sell that agression. The way Killian clawed, punched, and used those BADASS karate chops made me my eyes widen, IM'S repulsor fueled knee and back hand attacks were just as visually pleasing. I also would've like to see Iron Man use his unibeam at some point during their fight. But fire breath was the thing I regret not being in their final fight the most, I wish one of IM's repulsor's actually hit Killian so we'd see how it would effect him.

Oh and some of those missles IM used in The Avenger and that shoulder blaster he used in IM1 would've been epic.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:50 PM   #191
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Yeah the fight between Killian and Iron Man is the best hero/villain fight of the MCU so far imo. It was just so intense, you could tell they both wanted each other dead in cold blood and the fast pace really helped sell that agression. The way Killian clawed, punched, and used those BADASS karate chops made me my eyes widen, IM'S repulsor fueled knee and back hand attacks were just as visually pleasing. I also would've like to see Iron Man use his unibeam at some point during their fight. But fire breath was the thing I regret not being in their final fight the most, I wish one of IM's repulsor's actually hit Killia so we'd see how it would effect him.

Oh and some of those missles Iron Man used in IM1 and The Avenger would've been epic.
Not counting the Avengers vs Chitari, the Hulk vs Abomination was also really awesome (and possibly my favorite individual hero/villain fight). But, I think Killian vs Stark was close to it. I think that fight was heavily enhanced with Pepper's "death" right before they start fighting. It added a lot of tension to the sequence.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:54 PM   #192
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Not counting the Avengers vs Chitari, the Hulk vs Abomination was also really awesome (and possibly my favorite individual hero/villain fight). But, I think Killian vs Stark was close to it. I think that fight was heavily enhanced with Pepper's "death" right before they start fighting. It added a lot of tension to the sequence.
I rank Killian vs Iron Man over Hulk/Abomination for the simple fact that there were no breaks in their fight. Hulk and Abomination were either separated or standing their grappling on top of that building, it started off epic but it ended on a weak note.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:54 PM   #193
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Not counting the Avengers vs Chitari, the Hulk vs Abomination was also really awesome (and possibly my favorite individual hero/villain fight). But, I think Killian vs Stark was close to it. I think that fight was heavily enhanced with Pepper's "death" right before they start fighting. It added a lot of tension to the sequence.
I prefer Cap vs the Skull. For Killian vs Stark it required Tony to forget about flight and ranged combat. Just like he forgot to protect his house against something so conventional as a helicopter attack after inviting the Mandarin to attack him. That was unforgivable. Stark should have been ready for anything short of Ultimo.(which would have rocked)

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:56 PM   #194
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I prefer Cap vs the Skull. For Killian vs Stark it required Tony to forget about flight and ranged combat. Just like he forgot to protect his house against something so conventional as a helicopter attack after inviting the Mandarin to attack him. That was unforgivable. Stark should have been ready for anything short of Ultimo.(which would have rocked)
Actually Iron Man used his repulsor rays SEVERAL times against Killian he just dodged them.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:57 PM   #195
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I rank Killian vs Iron Man over Hulk/Abomination for the simple fact that there were no breaks in their fight. Hulk and Abomination were either separated or standing their grappling on top of that building, it started off epic but it ended on a weak note.
I kind of liked it ending the way it did. It was like people watching a good old epic boxing match (only this time between monsters!)

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I prefer Cap vs the Skull. For Killian vs Stark it required Tony to forget about flight and ranged combat. Just like he forgot to protect his house against something so conventional as a helicopter attack after inviting the Mandarin to attack him. That was unforgivable. Stark should have been ready for anything short of Ultimo.(which would have rocked)
Cap vs Red Skull was awesome. But, the fight ends halfway into it. It was the right film decision to leave them on unfinished business, but I think for fight purposes only, it makes it feel like you just watched a tie, as opposed to an epic match resulting in a winner. If this makes sense. But, it was the right decision for the movie.

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Old 10-20-2013, 04:58 PM   #196
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Actually Iron Man used his repulsor rays SEVERAL times against Killian he just dodged them.
He should have stayed out of range and used them until he hit. There was no reason to go hand to hand especially in such a fragile suit.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:02 PM   #197
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I kind of liked it ending the way it did. It was like people watching a good old epic boxing match (only this time between monsters!)



Cap vs Red Skull was awesome. But, the fight ends halfway into it. It was the right film decision to leave them on unfinished business, but I think for fight purposes only, it makes it feel like you just watched a tie, as opposed to an epic match resulting in a winner. If this makes sense. But, it was the right decision for the movie.
Ah but I cannot call anything epic when one combatant has been dumbed down the entire movie and doesn't have to fight on his enemies terms. Besides the fight should have ended with the self destructing armor. Having Killian survive that and then be killed by Pepper was anti climactic.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:12 PM   #198
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Default Re: Rank the Iron Man movies (IM, IM2, and IM3)

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Ah but I cannot call anything epic when one combatant has been dumbed down the entire movie and doesn't have to fight on his enemies terms. Besides the fight should have ended with the self destructing armor. Having Killian survive that and then be killed by Pepper was anti climactic.
I sort of agree that Pepper shouldn't have beat him ultimately, but I do like the confrontation he has when Tony is on the ground and he does his "I am the Mandarin" thing. That said, would have liked to see Stark help Pepper beat him in the end. But, this doesn't ruin the entire fight sequence for me at all. Now as for him being dumbed down, there I don't agree.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:21 PM   #199
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Default Re: Rank the Iron Man movies (IM, IM2, and IM3)

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I sort of agree that Pepper shouldn't have beat him ultimately, but I do like the confrontation he has when Tony is on the ground and he does his "I am the Mandarin" thing. That said, would have liked to see Stark help Pepper beat him in the end. But, this doesn't ruin the entire fight sequence for me at all. Now as for him being dumbed down, there I don't agree.
Really? What exactly was Stark prepared for at his house? Nothing that I could tell. If the woman scientist who visited had been an Extremis bomber I doubt Stark and pepper would have lived. He wasn't ready for that, or the copters or anything else I could see. That was incredibly dumb.

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Old 10-20-2013, 05:26 PM   #200
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Default Re: Rank the Iron Man movies (IM, IM2, and IM3)

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Really? What exactly was Stark prepared for at his house? Nothing that I could tell. If the woman scientist who visited had been an Extremis bomber I doubt Stark and pepper would have lived. He wasn't ready for that, or the copters or anything else I could see. That was incredibly dumb.
They didn't know how Extremis worked at that point in time. You're going to call Stark unprepared when he was in his armor when she came in, and was unaware of the exact threat he was facing? I don't think that is valid given Stark's lack of knowledge on Extremis. Hypothetically, yes an Extremis person could have blown them up. Unhypothetically, Stark was unaware that he was facing human bombs. As for the copters, they were labeled as News helicopters. He probably thought they were the media.

I don't agree with your complaint. The only thing Stark did that was dumb in that scene was where a different armor that was more offense capable. But, at same time, that could have killed Pepper if he wasn't around the Mark 42 at the time so he could attach it to her quickly.

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