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Old 10-23-2013, 03:04 PM   #726
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k View Post
Well there's a difference in showing a guy trying to shoot himself and a guy talking about shooting himself. I actually thought Banner talking about it in The Avengers was better than anything I saw in the TIH deleted scene. If you're not going to do a suicide scene right then don't do it at all. And what I'm talking about is Banner simply looking at the gun and then hulking out. That undercut the whole scene. At least let the guy put the gun to his head and come close to squeezing the trigger while having flashbacks of what he did in the lab. Let the chamber move a bit before he hulks out. If that version of the scene was there then I would agree that scene is worth keeping. As is that scene is a complete waste.
I think you can do a good scene of it without showing the actual suicide. I would have done it so you saw him put the gun in his mouth, cut to a wide shot of the mountain, you hear a gun shot echoing from afar, followed by a huge roar.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:05 PM   #727
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Yes. The Guardian review wonders if Loki's extra scenes were added at the expense of Malekith's. I'd like to hear what Alan Taylor thought about their addition. He doesn't seem to hold back when he has a gripe.
I doubt he'd gripe much since i think he asked for them.

EDIT: here's the quote I was referencing
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"We're doing full scenes, scenes that were not in the movie before. We're adding scenes, creating scenes, writing scenes for the first time....We realized how well Loki was working in the movie, and we wanted to do more with him. So it was that kind of thing, it was like, 'Oh, we could do this, we could jam this in here because he's such a wonderful guy to watch do his stuff.'"

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:05 PM   #728
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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
I think you can do a good scene of it without showing the actual suicide. I would have done it so you saw him put the gun in his mouth, cut to a wide shot of the mountain, you hear a gun shot echoing from afar, followed by a huge roar.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:12 PM   #729
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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
I think you can do a good scene of it without showing the actual suicide. I would have done it so you saw him put the gun in his mouth, cut to a wide shot of the mountain, you hear a gun shot echoing from afar, followed by a huge roar.
That definitely would have worked...far better than what was shown in the deleted scene.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:12 PM   #730
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

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Originally Posted by itchyscratch View Post
Yes. The Guardian review wonders if Loki's extra scenes were added at the expense of Malekith's. I'd like to hear what Alan Taylor thought about their addition. He doesn't seem to hold back when he has a gripe.
But if he doesn't hold back, which I agree that he doesn't seem to do as he has been surprisingly direct on a few subjects, then it wasn't an issue of having to cut something for time issues but to make the best movie. He's stated his surprise about the run time rumors more than once.

He's bound to have cut things he really liked though, that happens very often in movies and it's also common for directors to see the benefit of such cuts when they've distanced themselves a bit time-wise as they are often pretty attached to things they have shot. At least I've heard a bunch of directors say that in commentary tracks and in interviews.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:13 PM   #731
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k View Post
Well there's a difference in showing a guy trying to shoot himself and a guy talking about shooting himself. I actually thought Banner talking about it in The Avengers was better than anything I saw in the TIH deleted scene. If you're not going to do a suicide scene right then don't do it at all. And what I'm talking about is Banner simply looking at the gun and then hulking out. That undercut the whole scene. At least let the guy put the gun to his head and come close to squeezing the trigger while having flashbacks of what he did in the lab. Let the chamber move a bit before he hulks out. If that version of the scene was there then I would agree that scene is worth keeping. As is that scene is a complete waste.
I couldn't disagree more on pretty much every point.

By not showing he gun to the head, it allows the viewer to figure it out for themselves, while also not getting too "dark" for the movie's tone.

I don't know how you can compare that scene to one line Banner gives in the Avengers. It's like comparing an apple to an orange.


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Old 10-23-2013, 03:17 PM   #732
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Banner's lines in Avengers added a lot of weight to the moment. I loved it. Didn't need to see it to know how low he got

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:17 PM   #733
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Yeah, seems the "runtime worriers" may have had somethin there

I'm still really hoping I love this movie in spite of its flaws
but I'm preparing a giant "eat me" sign for some of the people (to remain nameless) who tried to ridicule or demean those who were worried
We ridicule people who decide the fate of movies from a single item like that ..... it's absurd, always will be, even if the feel they are justified after watching it when the truth is they're already going into the movie with the WORST MINDSET EVER. There is so much more to a movie than run time.

That eat me sign, can well ..... EAT ME.


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Old 10-23-2013, 03:24 PM   #734
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

I thought Ruffalo's delivery of the line was as good, if not better than the scene itself.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:26 PM   #735
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I thought Ruffalo's delivery of the line was as good, if not better than the scene itself.
That's fine .... your opinion.

I feel as though it had a better chance to resonate because there's a build up to it.

We're talking about a deleted Hulk scene on it's face.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:30 PM   #736
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We ridicule people who decide the fate of movies from a single item like that ..... it's absurd, always will be, even if the feel they are justified after watching it when the truth is they're already going into the movie with the WORST MINDSET EVER.

That eat me sign, can well ..... EAT ME.

So you 'ridicule' people who think that a shorter run-time might affect the fleshing out of certain characters and concepts. Interesting.

I've read at least 8 reviews and every one said that the malekith character is underdeveloped.

Cut scenes if they are bad or don't work, cut scenes if the movie is running really long and something has to be cut.

But don't cut scenes for a movie that doesn't appear to have been particularly long in the first place and don't cut scenes because you realize that the new villain you've created isn't as exciting as the villain you already had in two previous movies.

I'm not against adding in more for Loki if Malekith is still developed, but it appears he wasn't.

I've not read one post where somebody assumed the movie would be bad simply because of the run-time.....

I've read many where people thought certain aspects of the narrative would get short-changed in a movie of 112 minutes with 10 minutes of credits and 2 post movie scenes.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:33 PM   #737
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The Loki fans have won THIS round...

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:35 PM   #738
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So you 'ridicule' people who think that a shorter run-time might affect the fleshing out of certain characters and concepts. Interesting.

I've read at least 8 reviews and every one said that the malekith character is underdeveloped.
I'm ridiculing people over coming to a full conclusion or tinkering their expectations based on artificial run-time when they've yet to show me a conclusive way of determining a movie's success from it.

Quote:
I've not read one post where somebody assumed the movie would be bad simply because of the run-time.....
Well then you are either tardy, blind, or lazy ..... because we've had a few posters come through here with the "Ohhhmergerrddd my expectations are lowered, this might suck" nonsense.

Quote:
I've read many where people thought certain aspects of the narrative would get short-changed in a movie of 112 minutes with 10 minutes of credits and 2 post movie scenes.
There is sooooooo much narrative as it is. This is like whining about needing perfection. Do you know how many characters are in this film? How much attention everyone needs?

The film is still very much about Thor and Loki ..... the backdrop is the problem Mal and the DE's cause. Somebody wanting more complexity in the character doesn't make the character a flop or destroy this movie's ability to be enjoyable. It just makes the character a simplified villain.

If I go and see the movie and find that he's a paper cut out, I'll ***** about it ..... but I don't get that impression so far.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:35 PM   #739
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I wonder what this "uproarious scene" is going to be. I wonder if it will get the audience reaction Hulk smashing Loki got in the Avengers.
The line that says this film gives us the best use of the Odinson's powers made me go "woah". The part about how elaborate the final battle is also made me excited, he even says Malekith and Kurse pose actual threats.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:37 PM   #740
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Originally Posted by Krystal View Post
So you 'ridicule' people who think that a shorter run-time might affect the fleshing out of certain characters and concepts. Interesting.

I've read at least 8 reviews and every one said that the malekith character is underdeveloped.

Cut scenes if they are bad or don't work, cut scenes if the movie is running really long and something has to be cut.

But don't cut scenes for a movie that doesn't appear to have been particularly long in the first place and don't cut scenes because you realize that the new villain you've created isn't as exciting as the villain you already had in two previous movies.

I'm not against adding in more for Loki if Malekith is still developed, but it appears he wasn't.

I've not read one post where somebody assumed the movie would be bad simply because of the run-time.....

I've read many where people thought certain aspects of the narrative would get short-changed in a movie of 112 minutes with 10 minutes of credits and 2 post movie scenes.


EDIT: Too late. Rock is already arguing.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:40 PM   #741
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

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The Loki fans have won THIS round...
Haha .... they have and understandably so. He carries weight with audiences world-wide.

What I find funny is all the moaning about Mal being the baddy in this one when it was first announced. People complained he wasn't a dynamic enough.

What exactly were they expecting then in this film?


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Old 10-23-2013, 03:42 PM   #742
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EDIT: Too late. Rock is already arguing.

Someone's got to ...... before they force this thread into the abyss 16 days before it's U.S. release. I swear, I've never met so many people who can craft the perfect movie. You'd think there'd be less basement inhabitors here and more Academy Award winning directors.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:43 PM   #743
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Haha .... they have and understandably so. He carries weight with audiences world-wide.

What I find funny is all the moaning about Mal being the baddy in this one when it was first announced. People complained he wasn't a dynamic enough baddie.

What exactly were they expecting then in this film?
One of the reviews said him and Kurse are actual threats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Sexton View Post
Someone's got to ...... before they force this thread into the abyss 16 days before it's U.S. release. I swear, I've never met so many people who can craft the perfect movie. You'd think there'd be less basement inhabitors here and more Academy Award winning directors.


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Old 10-23-2013, 03:45 PM   #744
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

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Originally Posted by Krystal View Post
So you 'ridicule' people who think that a shorter run-time might affect the fleshing out of certain characters and concepts. Interesting.

I've read at least 8 reviews and every one said that the malekith character is underdeveloped.

Cut scenes if they are bad or don't work, cut scenes if the movie is running really long and something has to be cut.

But don't cut scenes for a movie that doesn't appear to have been particularly long in the first place and don't cut scenes because you realize that the new villain you've created isn't as exciting as the villain you already had in two previous movies.

I'm not against adding in more for Loki if Malekith is still developed, but it appears he wasn't.

I've not read one post where somebody assumed the movie would be bad simply because of the run-time.....

I've read many where people thought certain aspects of the narrative would get short-changed in a movie of 112 minutes with 10 minutes of credits and 2 post movie scenes.
As for what reviewers have said, don't forget that the plot has even been described as overly complex (by a positive review though). That's also a statement to take into consideration when we want to add more things to it.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:47 PM   #745
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

Oh good! More whining about the runtime. Thanks for bringing that up again I guess.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:47 PM   #746
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As for what reviewers have said, don't forget that the plot has even been described as overly complex (by a positive review though). That's also a statement to take into consideration when we want to add more things to it.
Should've kept your comment in about the pace ....

Because it's very well known a longer run time equates to better pacing.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:48 PM   #747
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I don't want to quote everyone who responded to me in regards to the deleted scene in TIH so I'll just post it here since I'm sure you'll be reading down the page anyways.

The problem I have with them referencing that scene in Avengers and not putting it in the final cut of TIH was because Marvel apparently(per Norton or Leterrier)thought it was a bit too much for a comic film...for the sake of the kiddies. I get that showing something like that might be a bit worse than talking about it, but as one of you pointed out, the scene wasn't that dark to begin with anyways.

I'm still excited for Thor but it seems sad that the main villian got the shaft due to everyone's obsession with Hiddleston's Loki.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:52 PM   #748
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Well the cat's out of the bag so...........

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:52 PM   #749
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Should've kept your comment in about the pace ....

Because it's very well known a longer run time equates to better pacing.
I remembered that I wanted to fuel the run time discussion as little as possible, so I stuck with my main point.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:53 PM   #750
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I'm still excited for Thor but it seems sad that the main villian got the shaft due to everyone's obsession with Hiddleston's Loki.
It's not just because of obsession. Loki is the antagonist that audiences sympathize with. If you trot a guy out there like Mal who's fueled by his family's murder at the hands of the Asgardians, then you turn everything on it's face. Suddenly he's someone who warrants sympathy. Not to mention we're supposed to be sympathizing with the Asgardians for being attacked.

How much more sympathy needs to go around? This would be one giant sympathy cluster muck if they kept that other Mal stuff in. The Asgardians are the protectors of the Nine Realms as stated in the original Thor. If Bor murdered in cold blood, it changes the landscape of their role in the MCU.

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