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View Poll Results: Do you want Laurel killed off?
Yes. Please Santa, make it happen. 40 52.63%
No, there is still hope. 29 38.16%
Don't care. Pointless thread. 7 9.21%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-23-2013, 01:21 AM   #76
Crossvale
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Dinah Laurel Lance is Black Canary, I don't know how anyone can hate her and still call themselves a Black Canary fan, that's just pathetic really. It was Dinah Laurel lance who really made the Black Canary name brand what it is now, I give some credit to Dinah Drake, but its mostly been Dinah Laurel who was the longest running BC and made BC what she is now. And she still has some traits in this show as she has in comics as herself and BC that some people refuse to see and acknowledge. Its double pathetic people are favouring some contrived resurrected original character to be BC who will be doing nothing but be a copycat of the Dinah Laurel/BC in comics, ironic much I thought people didn't want anything to do with laurel. So you don't want the original portraying their role, you just want a copycat, that the equivalent of wanting those hooded copycats as the actual Green Arrow

Its really shameful that a comic site is the one leading the charge for this hate of a comic book character, I would expects fans without much knowledge of these things to be the ones doing stuff like this.


Last edited by Crossvale; 10-23-2013 at 01:36 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:31 AM   #77
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Double posts

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Old 10-23-2013, 01:36 AM   #78
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossvale View Post
Dinah Laurel Lance is Black Canary, I don't know how anyone can hate her and still call themselves a Black Canary fan, that's just pathetic really.
People dislike this version of the character, not the character in general. Considering she's characterized as an annoying, unsympathetic nuisance, it's not hard to see why.

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And she still has some traits in this show as she has in comics as herself and BC that some people refuse to see and acknowledge.
It seems to me that whatever recognizable or otherwise positive traits she has are overshadowed by the negative ones.

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Its double pathetic people are favouring some contrived
How can you say it's contrived when you haven't even seen it play out yet?

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resurrected original character to be BC who will be doing nothing but be a copycat of the Dinah Laurel/BC in comics
As opposed to the one who apparently isn't anything like the Dinah of the comics...

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ironic much I thought people didn't want anything to do with laurel.
I don't think you understand why people actually dislike her.

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Its really shameful that a comic site
is the one leading the charge for this hate of a comic book character, I would expects fans without much knowledge of these things to be the ones doing stuff like this.
No need to be overdramatic.

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Old 10-23-2013, 01:52 AM   #79
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She is very close to the comic book version, no offense but I really have to question how much people really know of the comic Dinah Laurel/Black Canary they so claim to be a fan of. The people writing this show are not some writers from the street, the main guys behind this show were once or are still comic book writers, really you would think they would write a character who is nothing like their comic book character, they did not. They spend a year/season telling us this is the Dinah from comics, and hinting and building up she will be a future Black Canary and people are celebrating a possible lightswitch, really.


To Mars452. Its not just about having the right name, that is really just a ridiculous argument IMO. No adapted character can ever be 100% as they were in comics and I don't expect them to be, but TV Dinah is as close to her comic book counterpart as possible in a different setting, not much difference to how TV version of Oliver, Roy, Helena are to theirs. If u take Roy for e.g, he was never a street teen from the glades who was a thief for a living, yet some similarities and the fact his name is Roy Harper (even though he is actually William Roy Harper Jr lol) is good enough for some people to claim his comic heritage, really I could go on and on about the differences between the Roys and Ollies etc. Some people would throw fits here if ever Roy or Ollie don't get to be their superhero identities, seems like a double standard to me really.


Last edited by Crossvale; 10-23-2013 at 01:57 AM.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:56 AM   #80
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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Originally Posted by Crossvale View Post
She is very close to the comic book version, no offense but I really have to question how much people really know of the comic Dinah Laurel/Black Canary they so claim to be a fan of.
I wouldn't know. That's why I said "apparently".

No offense to you, but I have a really hard time believing that Laurel is all that close in personality to her comic book counterpart. Why would she be so hated if she were?

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The people writing this show are not some writers from the street, the main guys behind this show were once or are still comic book writers...
So what? It's not like they're above making significant changes to suit their needs.

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really you would think they would write a character who is nothing like their comic book character, they did not.
How are they similar?

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:12 AM   #81
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

So we should like Laurel because of her name?

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:16 AM   #82
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

^ this. As far as I know she is nothing like BC. At all.

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Old 10-23-2013, 05:26 AM   #83
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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So we should like Laurel because of her name?
That seems to be what it boils down to, despite the fact that she isn't really close to her comic counterpart at all. Was the comic Dinah a whiney drama queen who made irrational decisions and had no chemistry with Oliver Queen? Was she someone who didn't look like she could fight her way out of a paper bag?

Katie Cassidy is a nominal Dinah Laurel Lance. Nominal precisely because she is only the character in name but nothing else. Choosing her as Black Canary would be like an adopted child choosing her long-lost biological mother or father over her adopted one, just because the biological one shares the same name as her, even if that parent has never been there or shown any of the characteristics of being a parent, while the adopted parent has loved and raised the child her whole life. Who is the real parent here in this case?

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:14 PM   #84
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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Originally Posted by Crossvale View Post
Dinah Laurel Lance is Black Canary, I don't know how anyone can hate her and still call themselves a Black Canary fan, that's just pathetic really. It was Dinah Laurel lance who really made the Black Canary name brand what it is now, I give some credit to Dinah Drake, but its mostly been Dinah Laurel who was the longest running BC and made BC what she is now. And she still has some traits in this show as she has in comics as herself and BC that some people refuse to see and acknowledge. Its double pathetic people are favouring some contrived resurrected original character to be BC who will be doing nothing but be a copycat of the Dinah Laurel/BC in comics, ironic much I thought people didn't want anything to do with laurel. So you don't want the original portraying their role, you just want a copycat, that the equivalent of wanting those hooded copycats as the actual Green Arrow

Its really shameful that a comic site is the one leading the charge for this hate of a comic book character, I would expects fans without much knowledge of these things to be the ones doing stuff like this.


Good Post.I agree.I don't think they should abandon the original Black Canary over some fanboy whining. They've made significant steps in her character's growth.The journey towards her embracing her destiny is going to take time.(Ollie's took 5 YEARS.We can't give her 2 seasons. )

I never liked the idea of introducing this proto-Canary.It's likely to backfire on them.I can appreciate they want to incorporate the "original" Black Canary,but dragging back her dead sister that cheated with Ollie is not the best choice to do it.I'd have followed the comic,that had her mom be the original.(They could say it was for a short time) Laurel ends up finding out and takes on the mantel.(This would also be an easy way to actually name the character as well. I can't wait to hear her name on the show."The blonde wonder?")

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:21 PM   #85
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

Making Laurel the girl that crawls back to the guy, who cheated on her with her own sister, already ruined the character. That makes her a dumb girl, who never learns and keeps falling for the bad boy. And I can't see how they convincingly transform her into the great heroine, knowing full well that she tried to get Ollie's mom on death row. Really? This is the person Oliver is destined to end up with?

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:26 PM   #86
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I'd like to know how everyone knows that Laurel wants Ollie's mom on death row so badly?Now I don't watch clips or read synopses,but I'm guessing (since she has nothing against ollie and doesn't know he's Arrow) it's not by her choice.I mean she works for the state.I don't think she can tell the D.A. "Don't ask for the death penalty. The defendant is a friend of mine."

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:32 PM   #87
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It was part of a synopsis, and the way Laurel is written, I wouldn't be surprised if she leads the charge. She already came up with a completely bollocks reason to hunt the hood. All the times he helped her, saved her, rescued people, all of it is forgotten, because he didn't save Tommy in time. Even though he tried to stop the device from going off in the first place. She can be as confused and ridden with guilt as she wants, it still makes no sense.

Laurel will do anything in her power to bring down the Hood, simply because he wasn't there in time. That's it. Guess how she'll treat the person that is actually partially responsible for his death.

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:41 PM   #88
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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Originally Posted by Crossvale View Post
Dinah Laurel Lance is Black Canary, I don't know how anyone can hate her and still call themselves a Black Canary fan, that's just pathetic really. It was Dinah Laurel lance who really made the Black Canary name brand what it is now, I give some credit to Dinah Drake, but its mostly been Dinah Laurel who was the longest running BC and made BC what she is now. And she still has some traits in this show as she has in comics as herself and BC that some people refuse to see and acknowledge. Its double pathetic people are favouring some contrived resurrected original character to be BC who will be doing nothing but be a copycat of the Dinah Laurel/BC in comics, ironic much I thought people didn't want anything to do with laurel. So you don't want the original portraying their role, you just want a copycat, that the equivalent of wanting those hooded copycats as the actual Green Arrow

Its really shameful that a comic site is the one leading the charge for this hate of a comic book character, I would expects fans without much knowledge of these things to be the ones doing stuff like this.
Some of us look at more than just the name. I don't care what name the current Black Canary has. If she is 100 times more like the Black Canary we all know than Laurel is, then she is the true Black Canary for me.

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:41 PM   #89
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

So you're just making assumptions based on your Laurel/Katie hatred.

Let's face it.It's the CW.It's drama.Chances are after tonight's episode she may come around to Arrow after he saves her life...again.

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:45 PM   #90
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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Some of us look at more than just the name. I don't care what name the current Black Canary has. If she is 100 times more like the Black Canary we all know than Laurel is, then she is the true Black Canary for me.
Problem with that for me is it reeks of Smallville.

"That wasn't the Reeeeal Jimmy Olson.That was his brother."

I can see the same thing happening here.

"Well this is Dinah Sarah Laurel Lance.She was supposed to be the Reeeal Black Canary all along.She was Ollie's true love from the beginning..."

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:47 PM   #91
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

What else makes Laurel the Black Canary in this version besides her name?

This show also appears to be following the New 52 format with Oliver's best friend being Tommy Meryln and then making up a new character in his father Malcolm instead of Arthur King (along with the other casting they've done, like Amanda Waller). So in that version Dinah Laurel is not the Black Canary, she doesn't exist. It's only Dinah Drake.

Then they are giving their survived things they shouldn't have back story to this Canary, making her show up as a vigilante and hired an actress with action/martial arts skills to play her. If KC takes over we'll just see a faceless stunt double do everything for her. I'd rather see an actress that's known for doing her own stunts perform the fight scenes.

And yes, Laurel can ask to be removed from the case against Moira Queen because of conflict of interest and should be removed because of that. You can't even serve on the jury if you know anyone in the case.


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Old 10-23-2013, 02:48 PM   #92
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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Problem with that for me is it reeks of Smallville.

"That wasn't the Reeeeal Jimmy Olson.That was his brother."

I can see the same thing happening here.

"Well this is Dinah Sarah Laurel Lance.She was supposed to be the Reeeal Black Canary all along.She was Ollie's true love from the beginning..."
And yet it's still better than trying to shape Rachel Dawes into the Black Canary. Which comes with the exact same problem. "This is Laurel Lance. She is supposed to be the original Black Canary and Ollie's true love. LIKE HER DAMN IT!!!"

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:53 PM   #93
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And yet it's still better than trying to shape Rachel Dawes into the Black Canary. Which comes with the exact same problem. "This is Laurel Lance. She is supposed to be the original Black Canary and Ollie's true love. LIKE HER DAMN IT!!!"
That's been my point all along.She was a Dawes clone in the whole first season and everyone excepted it fine.Now they try to inject some life and originality into the character and it's "off with her head!!!"

It's a CW soap show.They're gonna inject some drama to keep the lovers apart.Heck,that's classic comic book drama 101: Chapter 4 "Secret I.D. keeps hero from love interest."

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Old 10-23-2013, 02:58 PM   #94
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And yes, Laurel can ask to be removed from the case against Moira Queen because of conflict of interest and should be removed because of that. You can't even serve on the jury if you know anyone in the case.
Well,who is to say what'll happen,but anything goes in TV drama.

Heck,on Star Trek,Captain Kirk was getting put through the wringer only to lock lips with the prosecutor by the end of the episode.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:01 PM   #95
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She already decided that she can't be with Oliver, after what happened with Tommy. There, that's them being apart. What purpose does making her completely unlikable serve? If we are supposed to like this person, why have her go on an irrational crusade? All they do is show us that at her core, she is a stupid little girl. She jumps the guy's bones who cheated on her with her sister. Now she leads a crusade against the Hood, because he wasn't fast enough.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:03 PM   #96
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

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Problem with that for me is it reeks of Smallville.

"That wasn't the Reeeeal Jimmy Olson.That was his brother."

I can see the same thing happening here.

"Well this is Dinah Sarah Laurel Lance.She was supposed to be the Reeeal Black Canary all along.She was Ollie's true love from the beginning..."
Except that is not the case here. Them doing that would be a case of learning from their mistakes. I would gain so much more respect for the creators of the show if they make the decision to stick with the new BC. Laurel's already had her chance. She started out "meh", then got interesting, then became a horrendous character and person in the last few episodes of Season 1. Now she is worse than ever through her completely illogical vendetta against the Hood and through what she is about to do in Episode 5.

Also, there is no such thing as "one true love destined from birth". Gwen Stacy was originally Spider-Man's Lois Lane until certain factors and decisions led to her being killed off. Spider-Man didn't become a chaste male after that but moved on and found someone he loved just as much or more. Killing Laurel off doesn't mean Oliver will seal off all future relationships because "she'll always be my soulmate!" He will get over her and find someone else, like the new BC.

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And yet it's still better than trying to shape Rachel Dawes into the Black Canary. Which comes with the exact same problem. "This is Laurel Lance. She is supposed to be the original Black Canary and Ollie's true love. LIKE HER DAMN IT!!!"
Exactly. It feels incredibly shoved down people's throats, now more than ever before.

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Old 10-23-2013, 03:07 PM   #97
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That's been my point all along.She was a Dawes clone in the whole first season and everyone excepted it fine.Now they try to inject some life and originality into the character and it's "off with her head!!!"

It's a CW soap show.They're gonna inject some drama to keep the lovers apart.Heck,that's classic comic book drama 101: Chapter 4 "Secret I.D. keeps hero from love interest."
They didn't inject originality. They injected retardation into her. Nothing about her vendetta against the Hood makes any rational sense. It's not even in-character based on she was in Season 1. And on top of all that, they moved her to a status quo out of Katie Cassidy's acting range.

They can inject as much drama as they want as long as it is good. Which is isn't at the moment.

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Old 10-23-2013, 04:56 PM   #98
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

To me people just hate because they just want action and nothing more. In season one nobody minded Laurel that much because everybody knew that she was going to be developed to be the Black Canary and as the producers stated, it took Oliver five years to become the vigilant and more to become the hero, so they couldn't just out of nowhere put Laurel up there with him, it would take time.

But now that they brought someone out of nowhere to beging the story of the BC, most people are just "I want the action, this BC already kick ass, she's already a super hero, keep her and kill Laurel". If it wasn't for this I don't think most ppl would be against the story of this season for Laurel as she has finaly stoped being there just to serve as a love interest and really become an active character on the show.

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Old 10-23-2013, 07:17 PM   #99
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

Trying to blame TheCW for Laurels characterization is weak. It has nothing to do with the network. Just because they specialize in romance drama doesn't mean that the character had to turn out the way she did.

And people weren't liking Laurel in season 1 already. Simple thing is, you don't take one of DCs biggest female characters and reduce them to a wimpy love interest just so your hero looks cool. If they wanted that, then they should've just created a new character or made her into Bonnie King. Dinah Laurel Lance should be a head strong kick butt character from the beginning. A lot of things could've happened for her during those 5 years that Ollie was gone and her being Black Canary or in the early stages should've been one of em.

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Old 10-23-2013, 07:23 PM   #100
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Default Re: Do you want Laurel killed off?

Yeah the blame for Laurel's suckiness can be blamed on the writing and the actress.

And their version of Black Canary has neither of those problems. Just get rid of Laurel, no one will complain, I doubt people are going to stop watching the show if Laurel leaves

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