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Old 10-24-2013, 11:08 PM   #251
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Actually

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If he turns out to be the Red Skull, I think the image of what espionage has become still works. If Pierce is his own character, yes I'd prefer him to not be entirely wrong but corrupted. But, think of the symbolic image if he is indeed the Red Skull. The new world of espionage has become so murky, that one of the most notoriously evil men ever was able to rise through the ranks and eventually take it over. This is a world that has decayed so much that the power of evil men keeps growing. I think that image, especially for a Captain America movie, is strong and works extremely well.
That actually would be pretty interesting. But at the same time, I would like for Cap to have an enemy that isn't too easy for him to justify himself. Skull as the villain makes it too easy for him to reassure himself that he's doing the right thing. But a man who seems to truly want what he thinks is best, and may actually have solid points...that's harder, and not something we've seen Cap up against.

Now, what would be REALLY scary would be if we see that Skull has actually evolved into that kind of person. Who, while still wanting power, actually does have good points about what he thinks would be best for the world.

Also, I didn't put this in spoiler tags since it's just speculation, but if you want me to I can definitely do that.

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Old 10-24-2013, 11:14 PM   #252
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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either that or he's The Red Skull reborn.
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That would be anticlimactic. Lukin works much better in a story about the Winter Soldier. Use a new villain, then bring Red Skull back in CA 3.
In the Winter Soldier comic, Lukin was controlled by the Red Skull and that has always been my theory of what's going on with Pierce. Alexander Pierce = Aleksander Lukin = Red Skull.

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Old 10-24-2013, 11:15 PM   #253
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

I have no problem with it (as long as there are no actual spoilers). I just use them in case this is a discussion anyone is trying to avoid.

I think that way works as well, but at the same time,
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this film seems to be very much about the demon's of Cap's past (as well as the world around him that SHIELD is creating). I think given that theme, it would make sense to use that card in this film. If you do it in 3, after we have so many returning Cap villains in this one, it might feel like a less cool idea. That would make 2 straight sequels in which Cap is facing his former WWII foes. I think using this film, when Cap is getting used to the new world, as our gateway in seeing how his old world has evolved over time as well works best. That way, Cap 3 is free to do whatever they want and not be forced into reusing the same villains he has already faced again, and for it to not feel like everytime Cap is in a solo adventure in the modern world, he is fighting people from WWII

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Old 10-24-2013, 11:25 PM   #254
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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I have no problem with it (as long as there are no actual spoilers). I just use them in case this is a discussion anyone is trying to avoid.

I think that way works as well, but at the same time,
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
this film seems to be very much about the demon's of Cap's past (as well as the world around him that SHIELD is creating). I think given that theme, it would make sense to use that card in this film. If you do it in 3, after we have so many returning Cap villains in this one, it might feel like a less cool idea. That would make 2 straight sequels in which Cap is facing his former WWII foes. I think using this film, when Cap is getting used to the new world, as our gateway in seeing how his old world has evolved over time as well works best. That way, Cap 3 is free to do whatever they want and not be forced into reusing the same villains he has already faced again, and for it to not feel like everytime Cap is in a solo adventure in the modern world, he is fighting people from WWII
I would be cool with that.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
And as I said, if you have to replace Weaving, Redford's a damn solid choice. It still bums me out that Weaving seems so uninterested though.

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Old 10-25-2013, 12:25 AM   #255
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

I'm surprised by the amount of screentime Redford got in the trailer, but it the was the right choice as he and his voiceovers gave the trailer its political thriller cred.

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Old 10-25-2013, 01:53 AM   #256
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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I have no problem with it (as long as there are no actual spoilers). I just use them in case this is a discussion anyone is trying to avoid.

I think that way works as well, but at the same time,
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
this film seems to be very much about the demon's of Cap's past (as well as the world around him that SHIELD is creating). I think given that theme, it would make sense to use that card in this film. If you do it in 3, after we have so many returning Cap villains in this one, it might feel like a less cool idea. That would make 2 straight sequels in which Cap is facing his former WWII foes. I think using this film, when Cap is getting used to the new world, as our gateway in seeing how his old world has evolved over time as well works best. That way, Cap 3 is free to do whatever they want and not be forced into reusing the same villains he has already faced again, and for it to not feel like everytime Cap is in a solo adventure in the modern world, he is fighting people from WWII
But to me, this is the perfect movie to use Lukin in. Cap ALREADY has to face demons from his past in the form of WS and old Peggy, so you don't need Red Skull YET. Lukin works in this movie because you have both WS AND BW. An ex-KGB officer pulling the strings would be perfect, maybe he's connected to both of them. Plus, Lukin's infiltration and scheming would contrast nicely with Red Skull's bombastic take over the world plot in TFA.

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Old 10-25-2013, 06:25 AM   #257
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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I'm surprised by the amount of screentime Redford got in the trailer, but it the was the right choice as he and his voiceovers gave the trailer its political thriller cred.
Redford adds a bit of mysterious edge to the bureaucratic imagery of the secret agency. He mentions to build a better world , the old ideals and principles must be torn down it sounds very similar to a dictatorship perspective like from stalin or Hitler.

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Old 10-25-2013, 09:19 AM   #258
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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But to me, this is the perfect movie to use Lukin in. Cap ALREADY has to face demons from his past in the form of WS and old Peggy, so you don't need Red Skull YET. Lukin works in this movie because you have both WS AND BW. An ex-KGB officer pulling the strings would be perfect, maybe he's connected to both of them. Plus, Lukin's infiltration and scheming would contrast nicely with Red Skull's bombastic take over the world plot in TFA.
Plus, if I remember correctly... from the comic arc, Lukin was orphaned as a boy when his village was collateral damage in the middle of a battle between Red Skull's forces & the Howling Commandos.

If it were me, I'd use Lukin as the baddie pulling Winter Soldier's strings for this movie. Then at the end, we see Rumlow being recruited & given his Crossbones mask by a returning Red Skull to set up Cap 3. That's just how I'd do it, but I think Marvel knows what they're doing too.

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Old 10-25-2013, 10:40 AM   #259
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

I'm not going to complain if Redford turns out to be Red Skull, although they'd better explain what the hell happened to him after he got shot up into space and where he went. However, I would prefer that he be a different villain.

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Old 10-25-2013, 10:49 AM   #260
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

could anyone see Redford being really creepy at some point and pulling on this hood?


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Old 10-25-2013, 10:58 AM   #261
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

No.

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Old 10-25-2013, 11:02 AM   #262
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kay.

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Old 10-25-2013, 11:51 AM   #263
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I'd prefer Zemo to be somewhat younger. Someone who can believable pull off action/fight scenes, not just be a mastermind.

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Old 10-25-2013, 11:53 AM   #264
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Redford adds a bit of mysterious edge to the bureaucratic imagery of the secret agency. He mentions to build a better world , the old ideals and principles must be torn down it sounds very similar to a dictatorship perspective like from stalin or Hitler.
Yeah, Redford is an old hand at this and portrayed the mysterious spy master perfectly. I thought the trailer was brilliant in introducing the up to now unknown characters, Redford's spy master, Falcon, Winter Solider and Crossbones (I think it's him?).

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Old 10-25-2013, 11:56 AM   #265
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That's him, it's clearly Frank Grillo at the beginning. Now we just need shots of Sharon and Batroc, and also Maria Hill.

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Old 10-25-2013, 11:59 AM   #266
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Oh cool, thanks. Yeah Sharon and Batroc in the next trailer would be nice. I didn't know Maria Hill was making an appearance in this movie.

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Old 10-25-2013, 01:38 PM   #267
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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That actually would be pretty interesting. But at the same time, I would like for Cap to have an enemy that isn't too easy for him to justify himself. Skull as the villain makes it too easy for him to reassure himself that he's doing the right thing. But a man who seems to truly want what he thinks is best, and may actually have solid points...that's harder, and not something we've seen Cap up against.

Now, what would be REALLY scary would be if we see that Skull has actually evolved into that kind of person. Who, while still wanting power, actually does have good points about what he thinks would be best for the world.

Also, I didn't put this in spoiler tags since it's just speculation, but if you want me to I can definitely do that.
I agree 150% with this...making him Skull cheapens the story. Keeping him as an aging SHIELD guy who feels he really is doing right is way more compelling and offers a lot more internal conflict for Cap.

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Old 10-25-2013, 03:58 PM   #268
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Yeah I think brining Red Skull back would be the obvious move but an unnecessary one for this film. I hope they don't bring back Skull for 3 either.

Personally I think if they ever get to a Cap 4 that's when they should bring Skull back. When Audiences completely forget about him and end the film with Cap fighting some politician who manages to escape but right before he does, he reveals himself as the Red Skull... Then you can build an trilogy around that.

I think Cap3 should definitely not be another Cap film, with Cap facing his demons of the past.

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Old 10-25-2013, 09:30 PM   #269
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Oh cool, thanks. Yeah Sharon and Batroc in the next trailer would be nice. I didn't know Maria Hill was making an appearance in this movie.
Yes she is. I wouldn't be at all surprised if she ends this movie as the new Director of SHIELD. "Kids, did I ever tell you about the summer that your Aunt Robin became Director of SHIELD."

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Old 10-25-2013, 09:48 PM   #270
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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Yeah I think brining Red Skull back would be the obvious move but an unnecessary one for this film. I hope they don't bring back Skull for 3 either.

Personally I think if they ever get to a Cap 4 that's when they should bring Skull back. When Audiences completely forget about him and end the film with Cap fighting some politician who manages to escape but right before he does, he reveals himself as the Red Skull... Then you can build an trilogy around that.

I think Cap3 should definitely not be another Cap film, with Cap facing his demons of the past.
You mean wait until Cap is recast to bring back the Red Skull (who they made a point of not killing off)? I don't see the logic in this. I would much rather see Evans finish his fight against the Red Skull in either 2 or 3 than not see him at all.

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Old 10-25-2013, 09:56 PM   #271
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

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You mean wait until Cap is recast to bring back the Red Skull (who they made a point of not killing off)? I don't see the logic in this. I would much rather see Evans finish his fight against the Red Skull in either 2 or 3 than not see him at all.


Agreed......
hey...I thought Redford left the country....

http://radio.about.com/b/2004/11/17/...ts-to-help.htm

I think he's perfect for this part.

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Old 10-26-2013, 12:51 PM   #272
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I would love a reveal of Redford having been Red Skull the entire time at the end of this film, even if the reveal comes at the end after the story is finished and Cap doesn't even find out yet. It would be a good lead in to the next film. If we can see Loki in 3 Marvel films, Red Skull shouldn't just be left in the wayside. He's a huge villain that deserves to be a key part of the Captain America universe and not just "one and done"...even if Weaving doesn't want to return.

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Old 10-26-2013, 08:32 PM   #273
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I agree, I just don't want him in THIS movie, or for Redford to play him. He can return in Cap 3. BTW, I'm thinking that Captain America: Red Nation would be a cool title for a third film.

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Old 10-26-2013, 10:53 PM   #274
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I saw Redfords latest today .
"All is Lost ".
Redford is lost at sea by himself the entire film.
Very good movie .

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Old 10-27-2013, 02:11 PM   #275
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Default Re: Robert Redford offically joins Cap:TWS

Anyone else thinking that Redford might be, in essence, Norman Osborn? Obviously he cannot play Osborn, but I could see him serving as the stand-in villain for Osborn's role and establishing H.A.M.M.E.R., which will lead into a Dark Reign type of story in Phase 2, which will ultimately bring about the Age of Ultron (Ultron being created as a way for H.A.M.M.E.R. to maintain its control but quickly growing beyond their control).

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