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Old 09-25-2013, 10:44 PM   #1
Mr. Dent
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Default What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

...and that's how Wanda and Pietro get their powers? We already see with IM3 that AIM was giving out Extremis as a way to "heal" people, and in Agents of SHIELD and Item 47 that, after the Battle of New York, people are selling and using all kinds of leftover Chitauri tech in addition to Extremis to give themselves powers in this new world. A2 would be the logical progression of that, where someone with a perfected Extremis virus or other means of tapping into the "brain slot" is literally selling powers to people, and with all these people popping up with powers all over the world, maybe Tony Stark builds Ultron to help contain these people?

Maybe Wanda and Pietro could be some kind of child soldier recruits for a PMC that is using these powers to in turn increase their own political and militant influence? And oppose what the Avengers stand for? Just a thought on how they could fit in.

Another pro of this plot is that it makes transitioning from the first Avengers film to the second extremely smooth. It's a direct result of the Battle of New York, that people are reacting to aliens falling from the sky by trying to give themselves powers, and doesn't require everyone to have seen the other 3-4 phase 2 films to get. It would just add an extra layer of coolness to pick up on some of the elements that were set up in pst films, like Extremis.


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Old 09-26-2013, 10:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

I like that theory. Perhaps they'll explore the route of selling Extremis as a type of drug on the streets on AoS

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Old 09-26-2013, 11:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

That would be awful. They should stick with the comics version where the twins were born with their powers. The reason for that can be explained in a number of ways that have already been discussed in other threads.

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Old 09-26-2013, 05:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

i can imagine someone experimenting on the romani people. but they are too old for it to be the Advanced Idea Mechanics of the movies.

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Old 09-26-2013, 05:13 PM   #5
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That would be awful. They should stick with the comics version where the twins were born with their powers. The reason for that can be explained in a number of ways that have already been discussed in other threads.
Except things don't work like that in the MCU. It makes no sense to have people who are all of a sudden born with powers when that has never happened in the past, as far as we know, and wouldn't fit with the universe they've created. The precedent for the MCU is that powers are received through science, and the super soldier serum was the beginning of it. They've shown they want to ground this universe in reality, people aren't just born with powers. There's a reason they introduced the brain slot and Extremis in IM3 and why they linked Bruce Banner's mutation to the super soldier serum.

And I haven't seen any compelling cases for the twins being born with powers in the MCU in other threads. And there's really nothing of value added to having them being born with powers, all it would do is confuse people and pretty much just create a copout for people to have powers. Stan Lee himself admitted that mutants in the Marvel Universe was a lazy way to give ordinary people powers.

Like, you'd really have to come up with a sound argument for why exactly it would be horrible for the twins to not be born with powers in the MCU, because everything really points to the opposite being out of place.

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i can imagine someone experimenting on the romani people. but they are too old for it to be the Advanced Idea Mechanics of the movies.
I don't think they're going to have had their powers for a long time in the movie, if they don't get them in the movie itself. There's a reason they're making them young.


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Old 09-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

That's only what we have so far, we don't know it hasn't happened in the past, it's just what has been shown so far. Be a bit more open to other ideas. There is no way that EVERY single power of an earth person in the MCU will be science based. There probably going to be another dozen super powered earthlings introduced in the future. Bet my ass they won't ALL be scientifically acquired. Having Wanda and Pietro, while relatively unlikely, have powers that occur naturally is still a legitimate possibility.

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Old 09-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

And in the comics Wanda didn't even develop her powers until right before Magneto recruited them, so it fits with the comics to not have them have powers until they're older.

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That's only what we have so far, we don't know it hasn't happened in the past, it's just what has been shown so far. Be a bit more open to other ideas. There is no way that EVERY single power of an earth person in the MCU will be science based. There probably going to be another dozen super powered earthlings introduced in the future. Bet my ass they won't ALL be scientifically acquired. Having Wanda and Pietro, while relatively unlikely, have powers that occur naturally is still a legitimate possibility.
It doesn't fit with the universe they've created, as I said. There's a reason why everyone in AOS will receive powers through science, and in the comics themselves the only people who have powers without science are mutants, who the MCU doesn't have access to. So I see nothing suggesting at all Marvel will ever bring in people who are born with powers, and they've really gone out of their way to negate the need for that. I am open to ideas, if I think they make sense and have concise logic backing them. And people being born with powers in the MCU doesn't match that for me.

Unless the twins are half-alien or something, they shouldn't be born with powers in the MCU.

My point with this is that it creates a perfect follow up to the first Avengers film and a way to include the twins in the script that makes complete sense. People are now selling powers as a commodity in this new world, a reaction to aliens dropping from the sky, and the twins are a product of that and the film's main look into the perspective of that side of the story. Just a theory, but I hope it happens.


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Old 09-26-2013, 06:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

You're conveniently forgetting a very simple explanation for where Wanda & Pietro got their powers:

It's magic.

Yeah, I know you and some other people can't stand the idea of magic in a pseudo-scientific nuts-n-bolts sci-fi world, and cling to Clarke's Law to explain away the supernatural; but the simple truth is that Dr. Strange is coming soon, and his magic is certainly *not* going to be explained away by "a sufficiently advanced technology, alien or otherwise."

And Joss has specifically called Wanda a "witch," and I don't think that's a euphemism. Joss has plenty of experience writing about witchcraft and the supernatural, and I'm sure he wouldn't be the least bit shy at saying Scarlet Witch is just that --- a witch.

In witchwhich (ha! wordplay) case Wanda & Pietro could quite simply be spellcasters, possibly even tied to Dr. Strange as either friends or foes. And you could use the typical fictional approach to magic and the supernatural in the modern world by saying yeah, it exists, yeah, it works, but only a handful of people know how to control it, and the vast majority of the public just dismiss it all as hokum. It's a milieu that doesn't require a lot of explanation, and audiences of all ages have all pretty much already bought into since, like, forever.

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Old 09-26-2013, 06:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

I have no problem with magic, but introducing magic in what Joss himself has called a very sci-fi laden film with an AI as the villain sounds pretty unnecessary and out of place. Not to mention introducing magic before Doctor Strange is not a good idea either. It's the same as people saying the twins should be Inhumans prior to an Inhumans film.

My point is that, if they were bringing in the twins after Inhumans or Doctor Strange, then I would have no problem with their powers having a Terrigen Mist or magic origin...but they're not. And it's for the better imo, because it would just be lazy to try and pass off the twins' powers under another character/properties' tropes. I would be glad if they don't not take the easy/lazy route and are going to make their power's origins actually scientific and tie back into the plot.

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Old 09-26-2013, 07:39 PM   #10
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Also, even when they *do* introduce magic, its not going to be "and now every scientist randomly loses 100 IQ points." Its going to be like the magic in Thor: you say "potato," I say "we don't have a good scientific theory for the magical stuff your doing, but this is some really neat data."

Which is to say, even the magic that no one yet understands and doesn't have any scientists nearby to try? Is not going to be magically (*ahem*) immune to science, and not going to disprove science.

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Old 09-26-2013, 08:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

i don't think it will be any more magical than the tesseract or bifrost.

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Old 09-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #12
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

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Also, even when they *do* introduce magic, its not going to be "and now every scientist randomly loses 100 IQ points." Its going to be like the magic in Thor: you say "potato," I say "we don't have a good scientific theory for the magical stuff your doing, but this is some really neat data."

Which is to say, even the magic that no one yet understands and doesn't have any scientists nearby to try? Is not going to be magically (*ahem*) immune to science, and not going to disprove science.
Who said magic was going to disprove science?

I suspect that's the main problem that some of you nuts-n-bolts types have with the introduction of fantasy-style magic into the superhero universe....you're afraid it's going to make science look "wrong." It's not. It doesn't. Magic has been a staple of the superhero world (especially Marvel and DC) from the very beginning, and it coexists peacefully with the science and science fiction aspects of the genre. Magic is just a different type of superpower, like psionics or mutations or advanced technology.

And again, Joss has a long history with magic and the supernatural. This is the guy who brought us Buffy and Angel; he's not going to balk at the notion of supernatural magic at work in the MCU.

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Old 09-26-2013, 11:30 PM   #13
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Also, even when they *do* introduce magic, its not going to be "and now every scientist randomly loses 100 IQ points." Its going to be like the magic in Thor: you say "potato," I say "we don't have a good scientific theory for the magical stuff your doing, but this is some really neat data."

Which is to say, even the magic that no one yet understands and doesn't have any scientists nearby to try? Is not going to be magically (*ahem*) immune to science, and not going to disprove science.
I think it would be cool if they took a Doctor Who approach to magic and made it where "magic" is just another form of math except while we use numbers, "magic" uses words, symbols, and certain objects to form and solve "functions". A certain input leads to a certain output.

And really that's an idea they can expand on, since I've only seen one episode of Doctor Who use magic/sorcery and that explanation was given very briefly. So Marvel could really own that idea in pop culture.


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Old 09-27-2013, 12:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

IMO, something will happen in Thor 2 that will set up the Maximoffs

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Old 09-27-2013, 01:06 AM   #15
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

Also, while we might not have anyone born on Earth with super powers, there are Thor and Loki. Plus, there's Pepper who was one of the few resistant to Extremis. We were told that was rare so why not have other rare abilities? Just because they were born with powers doesn't mean they had tapped into them or really understood them until they were much older.

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #16
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Who said magic was going to disprove science?

I suspect that's the main problem that some of you nuts-n-bolts types have with the introduction of fantasy-style magic into the superhero universe....you're afraid it's going to make science look "wrong." It's not. It doesn't. Magic has been a staple of the superhero world (especially Marvel and DC) from the very beginning, and it coexists peacefully with the science and science fiction aspects of the genre. Magic is just a different type of superpower, like psionics or mutations or advanced technology.

And again, Joss has a long history with magic and the supernatural. This is the guy who brought us Buffy and Angel; he's not going to balk at the notion of supernatural magic at work in the MCU.
This wouldn't be an issue, save for people in the fanbase insisting that magic *has* to be incomprehensible to science, or else its "not magic." Magic as just another power like psionics and mutations is fine. Magic as something that the resident nearby superscientists can't even comprehend on a basic "it seems to run on some kind of electricity" level is not.

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: What if people/AIM are selling/distributing powers?

I don't necessarily agree with your theory, but I'm starting to think Agents of SHIELD will probably serve as a way to introduce different kinds of Superpowers.

The Centipede already seemed to 'combine' the different explanations we've got until the moment: it's an Alien metal (possibly Chitauri), emits Gamma Radiation (The Hulk) and contained mix between the Super Soldier Serum from the forties (Captain America) and Extremis (Iron Man).

Franklin Hall will get his powers in Episode 3 (we saw an Inception-esque fight in the trailer) and probably as a result of an experiment.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get other poeple with powers though, Marvel seems to have adopted 'Gifted' as a way to call every super (which I imagine will include the mutants SW and QS).

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #18
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i don't think it will be any more magical than the tesseract or bifrost.
So, it will entirely be magical? *eg*

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:08 AM   #19
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I think it would be cool if they took a Doctor Who approach to magic and made it where "magic" is just another form of math except while we use numbers, "magic" uses words, symbols, and certain objects to form and solve "functions". A certain input leads to a certain output.

And really that's an idea they can expand on, since I've only seen one episode of Doctor Who use magic/sorcery and that explanation was given very briefly. So Marvel could really own that idea in pop culture.
I'm kind of partial to the old Marvel Adventure Game model, myself, though its a little like that, just with added "and you can get a lot of leverage out of the most basic mystical awareness, as long as your willing to basically use it to telephone some greater being and sell your soul to it for favors."

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Old 09-27-2013, 11:10 AM   #20
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I actually kind of like the term "gifted." It is less discriminatory than the classic "mutant", and dodges the whole "why are mutants treated differently than everyone else" issue. It also puts a much more positive spin on superhumanity, implying that the default viewpoint is that such is a, well, gift, something good. Mutant, by contrast. . . well in nature, 99% of all mutations are bad for the individual, so. . .

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Old 09-27-2013, 04:06 PM   #21
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So, it will entirely be magical? *eg*
Thor: Your ancestors called it magic...
[Thor skims through a book on Norse mythology]
Thor: ...but you call it science. I come from a land where they are one and the same

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Old 09-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #22
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I think it would be cool if they took a Doctor Who approach to magic and made it where "magic" is just another form of math except while we use numbers, "magic" uses words, symbols, and certain objects to form and solve "functions". A certain input leads to a certain output.

And really that's an idea they can expand on, since I've only seen one episode of Doctor Who use magic/sorcery and that explanation was given very briefly. So Marvel could really own that idea in pop culture.
There is a closer analogue: the Ultimate characterizations. If they incorporated that (sans the dueling banjos,) it would not compromise the structure of the MCU.

Having said that, I would be fine if they went either way for the source of her powers. As posters better than me have said, Whedon is skilled at handling the supernatural.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:59 PM   #23
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I wouldn't mind people having latent magical abilities that are kickstarted by events from Thor TDW, and the actions of the Dark Elves.
I like my magic magical, and my science scientificy.

Doesn't Fury mention something about 'more and more people are popping up, that we can't control' while they were having their argument on the helicarrier? That was before IM3, and while I think it could still relate to extremis experiments, I'd prefer it to not.

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Old 10-27-2013, 11:29 PM   #24
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Why can't people manifest powers? I think Shields idea to put together an Avengers team stems from all the weird people. Stark forced them into action because he publicly announced himself as a superhero.

But who was Fury talking about? Cap's presumed dead. They haven't met Thor. Banner?
I think Shield knows about metahumans and other science projects. But none of them are viable candidates or they stayed under the radar.

Even in the comics, that's what happened. People with special abilities only started becoming superheroes after people like Iron Man and the X-men start popping up. Before you got people here and there and most didn't have powers. Most popped up and retired during WW2. With the sliding timescale. You got an even longer distance between WW2 heroes and the Avengers.

Basically I'm trying to say is just because we haven't been shown all these metahumans, doesn't mean they don't exist. It may just mean they aren't publicly showing themselves.........until now.

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Old 10-28-2013, 10:35 AM   #25
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Why can't people manifest powers? I think Shields idea to put together an Avengers team stems from all the weird people. Stark forced them into action because he publicly announced himself as a superhero.

(snip)

Basically I'm trying to say is just because we haven't been shown all these metahumans, doesn't mean they don't exist. It may just mean they aren't publicly showing themselves.........until now.
On the last AoS episode, SHIELD knew about that Chinese guy with the non-Extremis-based fire powers (even though they didn't know where his powers came from), and they had been tracking him, and encouraging him to keep it hidden. Coulson even said that they had a list -- albeit a short list -- of people and items that they knew about. There's also the map at the end of IM2, which seemingly highlights Wakanda and Atlantis.

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