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View Poll Results: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...
Love it! 92 36.51%
It's okay... 56 22.22%
Hate it! 104 41.27%
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Old 10-29-2013, 03:16 PM   #151
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Not to mention he could simply mean, why should I apologize for the twist in Iron Man 3, Marvel made 1.2 Billion off the movie with it ranking number 5 on the world wide and the twist was a large part of it's success. They are a company after all, but that doesn't mean that if the opportunity comes along for Marvel to earn more money off of something that they won't use it as well. Also, double twists can work well with audiences for example. In Agents of Shield in "Eye Spy" they track down a girl "Akela Amador" who stole a brief case. However, when they find her she is being controlled by someone else (First Twist), and then they track down the source of who is controlling her, only to find that he was being controlled by someone else (Second Twist). For me it was the best episode to date. So, my point is that multiple interpretations can be drawn from Drew's comment, but it does not definitively leave out Marvel doing a different take on the Mandarin moving forward.

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Old 10-29-2013, 03:18 PM   #152
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

^ Actually, it wasn't really a Marvel thing. At least not overall. it was entirely Shane Black's idea. Favreau's original plan was to have a Mandarin closer to Kingsley's Mandarin (as the real Mandarin, that is). Later concepts after he left the franchise went back to a similar concept until Shane Black came in and brought in the idea of the twist.

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Old 10-29-2013, 03:30 PM   #153
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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^ Actually, it wasn't really a Marvel thing. At least not overall. it was entirely Shane Black's idea. Favreau's original plan was to have a Mandarin closer to Kingsley's Mandarin (as the real Mandarin, that is). Later concepts after he left the franchise went back to a similar concept until Shane Black came in and brought in the idea of the twist.
I am just stating what if it was Marvel's idea to let Shane Black do the twist knowing that they could do a second twist later for the "Real Mandarin", and catch audiences off guard a second time. I guess we will see what happens.

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Old 10-29-2013, 04:09 PM   #154
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

I would bet a hundred dollars it isnt true .

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Old 10-29-2013, 04:50 PM   #155
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

here's a weird idea i had while re-watching IM3 recently. after Killian meets with Pepper about working with aim and she rejects him there he says a throw away line about "fog is something that gets in the way of triumph" or something and when asked who said it he states it was his Dad, and that he was an Idiot. now here is my weird idea.
what if Killians Dad is the "real Mandarin" in that he is some kind of brilliant tactician/terrorist type with a reputation etc.. but didnt have time/respect for his sons nerdy technological pursuits. and now Aldrich is using that reputation and the chance to get back at is father by having trevor surgically altered to look like him and be the "bad guy" yada yada.

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Old 10-29-2013, 06:40 PM   #156
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

I still say the REAL Mandarin is neither Killian or Trevor, but both, and neither. Due to extremis, etc, Trevor became the mandarin, and Killian/trevor's mind merged into a sort of biological artificial intelligence. So the mandarin became more than a physical being, a biological ai, that used both bodies of killian and trevor.

Ultron is an AI, Mandarin a biological AI, who may be linked to HYDRA? Hydra takes over world, Ultron is sort of Mandarin's Jarvis, Ultrons defeats the Mandarin bio AI, and takes over complete control over the world.

Theres your Age of Ultron lol. But really, I think that Mandarin is more than killian or trevor, I think The Mandarin is not a "person" and more so a sort of biological AI created by their two minds

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Old 10-29-2013, 06:43 PM   #157
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Why can't they just leave it alone what we got was great!

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Old 10-29-2013, 06:53 PM   #158
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

guys, IF it turns out to be something else, IF Kingleys turns out to be the mandarin, or my guess is right, and if he plays a role in AoU, then they ARE leaving it alone. If there is a further twist to the twist, then it was probably planned all along

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Old 10-29-2013, 07:00 PM   #159
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

There's no way they'd affect or retcon the ending of IM3 in a straight to video feature, not to mention if the mandarin twist really was shane black's idea I highly doubt they'd go against his wishes for the character.

The mandarin twist "issue" point blank was only a concern for the hardcore comic fans and most of the general public were totally fine with it so from marvel studio's/disney's point of view there was no backlash really.

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Old 10-29-2013, 08:26 PM   #160
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

If Kingsley is playing Trevor again , its probably comedic.
Maybe his "auditon for The Mandarin role .

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Old 10-29-2013, 08:48 PM   #161
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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If Kingsley is playing Trevor again , its probably comedic.
Maybe his "auditon for The Mandarin role .
That's the most logical move, and I wouldn't be surprised if that turn out to be the One Shot plot. I think marvel should stand there ground with move they made for iron man 3, while I didn't necessarily agree with it , it was true to the iron man series that version of Mandarin was most ground and realistic approach possible, over time a lot of decision in that move I've grown to accept and with more info about phase 2 has started to make little more sense. I don't think a few upset fans should make the studio retract a plot line of the movie it's pretty good movie overall with a couple questionable choices.

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Old 10-30-2013, 12:41 AM   #162
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

it's still hilarious to me how up in arms people are about this lol

Shane Black even hosted a public forum where fans could voice their disappointment, and it's been nearly 6 months since the movie came out. Guess I know what it's like to be a Star Wars fan again.

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Old 10-30-2013, 06:15 AM   #163
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

I hope its a one shot with Trevor, personally I want anything Iron Man, even if its an audition for the Mandarin,lol.
Going back to what has been said, I personally don't think Marvel needs to apologize for anything, the movie was really good, they made a heck of alot of money from it, if they want to go and make a second twist and say well, Trevor dooped you all, he really is the Mandarin, thats fine, but its not nesessary to go and make a short to make a few hardcore fans happy.
From conversations I have had with fellow Iron Man fans, is that Marvel launched a campaign where we saw and heard a bad a$$ Mandarin, one we as fans hoped for, and for 2/3 of the film we got a Mandarin that was looking like he could be the most evil villain Marvel had shown in the MCU to date, only to find out he was an actor, now to me, that really did not disappoint, it actually stayed true to the "real" feel of the MCU, where it would make sense that a group like AIM would invent what all americans fear a mastermind terrorist who could not be found and stopped, we live in a 24 hr news world now, and this version of Mandarin worked in the realistic MCU, least thats what the Iron Man films always felt like, yes, Extremis is a leap of faith, but not unrealistic that a someone would do genetic testing on someone to turn them into a bomb.
So, I welcome a one shot if true, but to me there is no reason to fix Mandarin, I mean if as I said it reveals that he played everyone and he was on fact the real Mandarin ok, but again, I was ok with the what was done.

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Old 10-30-2013, 08:48 AM   #164
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Trevor's Mandarin was already a more grounded and realistic version of the character than the one from the comics. There was no need to go the Killian route in the name of realism because the realism route had already been taken to a great extent while still keeping the Mandarin's menacing traits intact.

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Old 10-30-2013, 08:49 AM   #165
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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I am just stating what if it was Marvel's idea to let Shane Black do the twist knowing that they could do a second twist later for the "Real Mandarin", and catch audiences off guard a second time. I guess we will see what happens.

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I don't think it will be treated as another twist. I think there's also a chance that the One-Shot might not even be canon. Just a straight up Kingsley's Mandarin vs. Iron Man 10 minute-short.

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Old 10-30-2013, 02:04 PM   #166
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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I don't think it will be treated as another twist. I think there's also a chance that the One-Shot might not even be canon. Just a straight up Kingsley's Mandarin vs. Iron Man 10 minute-short.
Oh oh oh. I just had an idea of how to convert that very non-canon One-Shot you described into an in-canon One-Shot, without sacrificing the integrity of IM3 one bit. Slightly confusing? Lemme explain.

So, we start off abruptly with Ben Kingsley in full Mandarin regalia flying through the air, shooting lasers from ten rings, battling Iron Man (in what appears to be a new suit design) one-on-one in absolute epic over-the-top manner. That goes on for about 10 minutes and we (interestingly) see that Iron Man has been re-cast. Would be awesome if they used a huge name here.

The camera pans left and we see that we're in a movie hall; an in-MCU movie hall, of course. We then see Slattery (immunity in exchange for the goods on Killian/AIM) seems to have parleyed that promising theater career and recently ill-gotten infamy into a solid career on the big screen. Then, Trevor Slattery does Trevor Slattery things for a few minutes... and scene.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:35 PM   #167
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Why would Marvel retcon their second biggest movie ever with a throwaway short? Not buying this news. Consider the source.

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Old 10-31-2013, 09:23 AM   #168
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Over on the other site (that shall not be named) in the news section they feel Drew Pearce via his twitter account debunked this latino review information. However, to me from what I can see he just seemed to repeat what he said previously, and while it could be considered confirmation to some, I still think different interpretations can be drawn from his comment, not to mention it seems odd to me he would use the exact same phrase a second time. Why not just say "that won't be happening" or something to that effect? So to me while I still don't necessarily trust the source of the original information, I am still waiting to hear something a little more concrete. So, guess we will see.

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Old 10-31-2013, 09:38 AM   #169
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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Why would Marvel retcon their second biggest movie ever with a throwaway short? Not buying this news. Consider the source.
It wouldn't be retconing unless they were changing the events that unfolded in Iron Man 3. Some may want that, but I think a course direction can be done for Iron Man 4 without effecting what transpired in Iron Man 3. It's as simple as seeing Trevor in prison, saying Killian came across a legend of the Mandarin and he took on his name and fashioned Ben Kingsley's Mandarin character from what he imagined the Mandarin would like if he was real. At that point not knowing the Mandarin is real and actually very pissed off that his name was tarnished. Simple.

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Old 10-31-2013, 12:14 PM   #170
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Here's the thing.

The twist and the basic concept works fairly well, within the film, largely due to Kingsley's performance.

The problems with the approach are twofold.

One, the actual reveal of the twist is somewhat lazily executed well and wasted the potential of the concept itself. Seriously, they have Tony just STUMBLE onto Trevor already not being The Mandarin? Why not have him IN the guise of The Mandarin when Tony encounters him, trying to put on a brave face and have a "supervillain" confrontation with Iron Man or Tony that rivaled Tony/Loki in THE AVENGERS, and then, in the middle of his scary megalomianical terrorist bit going "Oh, I can't go on. You've got me. It's all a ruse." etc. Not that dialogue, obviously, but it would be much better, with more tension, and more impact. By the time Tony finally encounters Trevor, the audience has figured it out, and it loses some of its impact in the way its presented.

Two, the overall concept simply doesn't work as well as what could have been, and arguably should have been. There's no reason The Mandarin couldn't have been treated more seriously, and been a blend of his classic and more modern incarnations, and had better interactions and connections with Killian and AIM than being a puppet.

And worse, the one "original" idea (creating a fake terrorist/owning terrorism) is wrapped up in so much generic, derivative crap that it cannot overcome. In other words, the twist is not worth the price that is paid via the bastardization of the character and the mythology.

You'll never convince most fans that this was the best way to go, because from a creative standpoint, it simply wasn't. Killian's version of The Mandarin was serviceable, and Guy Pearce did a solid job, but the character was largely forgettable. His motivations are thin, his character is cliché as hell, and calls to mind several less than stellar representations of classic superhero movie characters. We've seen it all done better, and several times over. This felt like a poor imitation of other supervillains.

Even Killian's powers are only marginally more impressive than his henchmen's abilities and skills. That's inexcusable in a main superhero baddie.

I could care less whether they try to hint at Kingsley being The Mandarin, because that would be a cheap move, wouldn't begin to undo the wasted potential.

As far as I'm concerned, "The Mandarin", much like Ivan Vanko, will be remembered as a big fart, and there'll always be the wasted potential there. And that's a huge disappointment. Imagine if The Joker had been given that type of treatment.

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Old 11-02-2013, 12:44 PM   #171
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

On the front page of the Hype, the news seems to suggest that Kingsley will be at least doing a one shot, and not some other Marvel Disney project. Guess we will see what happens.

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Old 11-02-2013, 03:21 PM   #172
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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The mandarin twist "issue" point blank was only a concern for the hardcore comic fans and most of the general public were totally fine with it so from marvel studio's/disney's point of view there was no backlash really.
I'm not a hardcore fan by any means and I didn't like the twist. I felt like it wasted the interesting character they had presented in the movie itself. For me, the resemblance (or lack thereof) it had to the source material wasn't really a factor. I admire the twist for the audacity it took to go through with it and how they were able to misdirect the audience with the marketing but I still felt disappointed walking out of the theater.

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Old 11-02-2013, 03:56 PM   #173
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I'm not a hardcore fan by any means and I didn't like the twist. I felt like it wasted the interesting character they had presented in the movie itself. For me, the resemblance (or lack thereof) it had to the source material wasn't really a factor. I admire the twist for the audacity it took to go through with it and how they were able to misdirect the audience with the marketing but I still felt disappointed walking out of the theater.
I agree. I have never read any Iron Man comics but the twist was just bad. Insteas of using the most mysterious, threatening, and interesting villain in thr trilogy to date, instead they rich corporate guy was behind it all along. Because you know, we haven't gotten any rich corporate bad guys who want my power in the last two movies. On top of that Killian was the most boring out of the three.

That's why I don't like the twist.

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Old 11-02-2013, 05:09 PM   #174
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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it's still hilarious to me how up in arms people are about this lol

Shane Black even hosted a public forum where fans could voice their disappointment, and it's been nearly 6 months since the movie came out. Guess I know what it's like to be a Star Wars fan again.
What's most baffling about this is when Batman Begins turned Ra's Al Ghul into a white guy who had an ethnic body double, used the name of a lesser known and unrelated character, and didn't have the supernatural power source that he had in the comics but otherwise had the same motivation, MO, and backstory, no one cared.

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Old 11-02-2013, 05:20 PM   #175
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What's most baffling about this is when Batman Begins turned Ra's Al Ghul into a white guy who had an ethnic body double, used the name of a lesser known and unrelated character, and didn't have the supernatural power source that he had in the comics but otherwise had the same motivation, MO, and backstory, no one cared.
Because they didn't turn the character into an unfunny joke? Only difference I can spot.

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