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View Poll Results: Should they buy the rights back?
Yes, I want the rights back and it would be a worthwhile investment 44 63.77%
Not sure, might not be worth it and I don't care who owns who 8 11.59%
No, more studios means more Marvel movies! 17 24.64%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2013, 03:50 PM   #76
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Raimi completely ruined the chance to do The Death of Gwen Stacy.

All she has to do is be dropped off a bridge and die from Spider-man's webline in the ASM films and it will be a hundred times more faithfull than SM1-SM3

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Old 10-30-2013, 03:54 PM   #77
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

I'm talking about comparing origins,though.

But,I'll believe the whole Goblin/Gwen/Bridge thing when I see it.If they actually go through with it like the comic,I'll be the first to extend kudos.

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Old 10-30-2013, 04:02 PM   #78
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Originally Posted by R_Hythlodeus View Post
especially the kids. even if you ignore the bad acting by all of them, they were just not written to fit in that time period. the behaved like teenagers of the 00s. there were other issues too, mostly the extreme misogyny of FC
The teens not being 60's accurate isn't an issue since most of the audience didn't remember or experience the 60's.

In most cases women used sex appeal to gain advantage on perverted men. I wouldn't call that misogynist.

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Old 10-30-2013, 04:50 PM   #79
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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The problem with TASM for me,is I actually thought it was possible to do the origin again,but do it better.They did the complete opposite.

Apart from giving Flash a sliver of character (which wasn't hard,since the Raimi films didn't even try) and putting Gwen in before MJ,there was nothing superior or more faithful than the Raimi version in any way.

Now,if Marvel got their hands on S-M,I can easily see them doing the definitive take on the origin,which I'd be willing to revisit one more time.
Lol try quips and webshooters

What would Marvel do new in an origin? We got the 616 origin in SM1 and the Ultimate origin in TASM.

There is literally nothing new a third origin could do.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:01 PM   #80
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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The problem with TASM for me,is I actually thought it was possible to do the origin again,but do it better.They did the complete opposite.

Apart from giving Flash a sliver of character (which wasn't hard,since the Raimi films didn't even try) and putting Gwen in before MJ,there was nothing superior or more faithful than the Raimi version in any way.

Now,if Marvel got their hands on S-M,I can easily see them doing the definitive take on the origin,which I'd be willing to revisit one more time.
Gotta disagree there. We actually got to know and see Uncle Ben and have a sense of his relationship with Peter before he died in TASM. We got next to none of that in Raimi's version. Just a speech and such and not much more. Ben's a caricature in SM1. He's an actual character in TASM. Same goes for Aunt May but it's less noticeable which is why I used Ben as my example. And that's just one small part where TASM is far superior. I think it's a vastly better film than the first Spider-man on just about every level imaginable.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:02 PM   #81
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Lol try quips and webshooters

What would Marvel do new in an origin? We got the 616 origin in SM1 and the Ultimate origin in TASM.

There is literally nothing new a third origin could do.
Quips were no better in ASM than SM.I'd personally take "Let mom & dad talk" over "Crotch!!!!" but i'm not gonna go over and over that again.

In honesty,Raimi's did 80% of what should be in a Spidey origin.To some extent,I think a better job could be done with the supporting cast.But if for no other reason,I'd like to see the real attitude Spidey had post spider bite-pre Ben's death.He was a selfish ******* who wanted to be a celebrity and make $$ and could care less about anyone else.

In both versions it was changed to Peter wanting "Revenge".A concept that wasn't really a factor in the comic origin.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:07 PM   #82
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Gotta disagree there. We actually got to know and see Uncle Ben and have a sense of his relationship with Peter before he died in TASM. We got next to none of that in Raimi's version. Just a speech and such and not much more. Ben's a caricature in SM1. He's an actual character in TASM. Same goes for Aunt May but it's less noticeable which is why I used Ben as my example. And that's just one small part where TASM is far superior. I think it's a vastly better film than the first Spider-man on just about every level imaginable.
That's kinda how I felt about his portrayal in TASM.There was nothing really endearing about him.He seemed to make poorly communicated speeches several times,wheres in SM,we got a better sense of Peter's relationship with Ben (which seemed less contentious)even with less time given.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:09 PM   #83
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Quips were no better in ASM than SM.I'd personally take "Let mom & dad talk" over "Crotch!!!!" but i'm not gonna go over and over that again.

In honesty,Raimi's did 80% of what should be in a Spidey origin.To some extent,I think a better job could be done with the supporting cast.But if for no other reason,I'd like to see the real attitude Spidey had post spider bite-pre Ben's death.He was a selfish ******* who wanted to be a celebrity and make $$ and could care less about anyone else.

In both versions it was changed to Peter wanting "Revenge".A concept that wasn't really a factor in the comic origin.
I agree the quips in SM1 were good, I think I was referring to the other two. That was my mistake lol. On the subject though there were more quips.

I always liked SM1 but with the exception of the score, TASM did everything to the same quality or better than SM1.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:09 PM   #84
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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The teens not being 60's accurate isn't an issue since most of the audience didn't remember or experience the 60's.
Don't need to to know what they were like back then. Anyone who's seen Catch Me If You Can can get a good idea of how teens acted in the 1960's. Or name any other movie that got it right. There's probably many of them. The thing is, we have a sense of what to expect based on these things. We have a picture that instantly forms. And this is for any decade. What that picture in our heads is may not be accurate but we know it ain't that far off the mark. So we can tell when that kinda stuff happens in FC that it isn't right.

I was more bothered by them playing 60's rock&roll hits at the Atomic Club, myself. It may have been the 60's but adults at a casino in the 1960's wouldn't be listening to that stuff. That was for kids then. Adults would be listening to something by the Rat Pack or Perry Como or some such thing at that time.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:12 PM   #85
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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That's kinda how I felt about his portrayal in TASM.There was nothing really endearing about him.He seemed to make poorly communicated speeches several times,wheres in SM,we got a better sense of Peter's relationship with Ben (which seemed less contentious)even with less time given.
In TASM it seemed like a real relationship rather than actors reading from a script. Hence he didn't have a long prepared speech to whip out at a moments notice unlike in the Raimi movie. Seriously, NOBODY talks like that in that film.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:13 PM   #86
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
That's kinda how I felt about his portrayal in TASM.There was nothing really endearing about him.He seemed to make poorly communicated speeches several times,wheres in SM,we got a better sense of Peter's relationship with Ben (which seemed less contentious)even with less time given.
Both Uncle Ben's were great. I liked TASM's more because they portrayed him more as his guardian than his father (Peter's Parents angle). I also found the scene where Uncle Ben tells Gwen than Peter has her on his computer pretty funny.

I wouldn't really say either was better. I just liked Martin Sheen's more.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:28 PM   #87
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Lol try quips and webshooters

What would Marvel do new in an origin? We got the 616 origin in SM1 and the Ultimate origin in TASM.

There is literally nothing new a third origin could do.
Marvel could always use Miles Morales instead of Peter Parker for a third time. That would be new.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:31 PM   #88
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Challenge:

For anyone who wants all the rights to come back, give me a release timeline. Tell me what Phase 2 or 3 or 4 looks like if Marvel is trying to produce franchises for:
IM, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Avengers, GOTG, Dr. Strange, Inhumans, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Iron Fist, Blade, Daredevil, Ghost Rider
AS WELL AS:
Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four

Let me see how you'd do phase 2 or 3 or 4 with all of that.

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:36 PM   #89
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Challenge:

For anyone who wants all the rights to come back, give me a release timeline. Tell me what Phase 2 or 3 or 4 looks like if Marvel is trying to produce franchises for:
IM, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Avengers, GOTG, Dr. Strange, Inhumans, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Iron Fist, Blade, Daredevil, Ghost Rider
AS WELL AS:
Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four

Let me see how you'd do phase 2 or 3 or 4 with all of that.
I'd like to buy this post dinner

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Old 10-30-2013, 05:49 PM   #90
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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In TASM it seemed like a real relationship rather than actors reading from a script. Hence he didn't have a long prepared speech to whip out at a moments notice unlike in the Raimi movie. Seriously, NOBODY talks like that in that film.
I think it's the complete opposite.Nothing that came out of Sheen-Ben's mouth sounded natural.From his strained Trying-not-to-say "With Great Power" speech to the flowery phone message.

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Old 10-30-2013, 06:05 PM   #91
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Challenge:

For anyone who wants all the rights to come back, give me a release timeline. Tell me what Phase 2 or 3 or 4 looks like if Marvel is trying to produce franchises for:
IM, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Avengers, GOTG, Dr. Strange, Inhumans, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Iron Fist, Blade, Daredevil, Ghost Rider
AS WELL AS:
Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four

Let me see how you'd do phase 2 or 3 or 4 with all of that.
I think you obviously won't see any of them before at least the tail end of Phase 3.

X-Men- Fuggetabboutit. No one really cares if the stay at Fox for the most part.

GOTG probably doesn't get a sequel.
Inhumans/Black Panther waits for a FF sequel/crossover
Iron Fist gets put with Luke Cage for a TV series
Ghost Rider/Blade TBD (I don't think anyone will mind the wait.)
Captain Marvel gets spun off after Avengers 3

FF would be a top priority for Marvel
Spidey/Daredevil would get the Marvel Street level treatment within phase 4
Dr Strange still gets his movie as does Thor/Cap & hopefully Hulk sequels.
IM TBD (If RDJ doesn't come back,give the character a rest)

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Old 10-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #92
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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I think it's the complete opposite.Nothing that came out of Sheen-Ben's mouth sounded natural.From his strained Trying-not-to-say "With Great Power" speech to the flowery phone message.
Uncle Ben never said that line. They used the one Uncle Ben said in the Ultimate Origin. I also liked the phone message

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Old 10-30-2013, 06:12 PM   #93
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Uncle Ben never said that line. They used the one Uncle Ben said in the Ultimate Origin. I also liked the phone message
Yeah its funny, people want the speech he made in the comics. And they got it they just don't know they got it

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Old 10-30-2013, 09:12 PM   #94
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Nothing from the Ultimates should be incorporated in a film version.

Ever.

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Old 10-30-2013, 09:36 PM   #95
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Challenge:

For anyone who wants all the rights to come back, give me a release timeline. Tell me what Phase 2 or 3 or 4 looks like if Marvel is trying to produce franchises for:
IM, Cap, Thor, Hulk, Avengers, GOTG, Dr. Strange, Inhumans, Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Iron Fist, Blade, Daredevil, Ghost Rider
AS WELL AS:
Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four

Let me see how you'd do phase 2 or 3 or 4 with all of that.
IM solo movies are likely done. I really doubt there is an IM4. It would be a huge mountain to move to get IM4 in the pipeline. RDJ is only on for Avengers 2 and 3 anyways and I definitely think he is done after that. I will be shocked if they re-cast Tony Stark within this universe.

Hulk is probably not going to get a sequel. He will continue to be the big man in the Avengers with likely another Hulk bad guy thrown into the mix to give him some dire circumstances.

Captain Marvel won't have his own movie and neither will Iron Fist...nor should they. Iron Fist could end up in an Avengers movie. I don't think anyone gives a crap about Captain Marvel to be blunt.

I don't think we will see another Ghost Rider movie anytime soon no matter who has those rights. I don't think he would be in any other movies either. I am really shocked we even have a Ghost Rider movie. The Punisher imo would be better suited to be thrown into the mix with say Spider-Man or Daredevil.

GOTG I can see being two movies, depending how the first one does.

I don't think we will be seeing Blade movies for a long time either.

Daredevil I think would get a couple of movies with a crossover with Spider-Man.

Spider-Man movies would be pumped out every 2 years and he would be in the Avengers. Likely 6 Spidey movies culminating in the Sinister 6.

Fantastic Four I could see being 2 movies with them joining the Avengers to fight Doom.

If Marvel had all of those properties, they could easily be releasing 4 films a year and just own the market. A March, May, July, November schedule would just absolutely crush any other studio.

The X-Men is just a huge universe that really doesn't need cross-overs. Though..I bet Wolverine would show up in a Spider-Man movie or an Avengers movie.

BUT...definitely think we would have seen a Civil Wars movie after the Avengers line was done.

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Old 10-31-2013, 12:39 PM   #96
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Quote:
there were other issues too, mostly the extreme misogyny of FC
Of course there was misogyny in First Class - the entire movie took place in the 60's! There was extreme misogyny in our society during that time.

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Old 10-31-2013, 01:29 PM   #97
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

Quote:
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Nothing from the Ultimates should be incorporated in a film version.

Ever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
I think you obviously won't see any of them before at least the tail end of Phase 3.

X-Men- Fuggetabboutit. No one really cares if the stay at Fox for the most part.

GOTG probably doesn't get a sequel.
Inhumans/Black Panther waits for a FF sequel/crossover
Iron Fist gets put with Luke Cage for a TV series
Ghost Rider/Blade TBD (I don't think anyone will mind the wait.)
Captain Marvel gets spun off after Avengers 3

FF would be a top priority for Marvel
Spidey/Daredevil would get the Marvel Street level treatment within phase 4
Dr Strange still gets his movie as does Thor/Cap & hopefully Hulk sequels.
IM TBD (If RDJ doesn't come back,give the character a rest)
The challenge was a release timeline. So we're talking about Phase 4, then? Okay.
  • So assuming GOTG is as successful as all the other MCU films, it has fans, people want a sequel, just don't give it to them, tough cookies for them.
  • No new properties on film, check. Give all those properties to Jeph Loeb. Tough cookies for them.
  • No Iron Man 4 if there's a recast, introduce the new actor in Avengers, tough cookies for him.
  • So your 'all the properties back' Phase 4 is: Thor, Cap, Hulk, Spidey, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. At two movies a year, that puts Avengers movies 5 years away from each other, and never adding any new properties (Ghost Rider/Blade/IM) unless you stop one of those or extended each phase to be 6 years long.
  • This means 6 years between sequels for every franchise.

I wouldn't enjoy that, would you?

Quote:
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If Marvel had all of those properties, they could easily be releasing 4 films a year and just own the market. A March, May, July, November schedule would just absolutely crush any other studio.
That's not how movie financing works. There is nothing about having a bunch of IPs that generates credit. There's also the very real factor that when quantity goes up very rapidly, quality tends to go down just as fast. If Marvel maxes out their credit and makes any mistake, it could cripple them. When Hulk did 'okay' in 2008, they couldn't introduce any other properties until they had proved that their only real success Iron Man wasn't a fluke.

That's not how movie scheduling works. Also, Marvel doesn't have the power to tell other studios (who have more money, more credit) not to release films near their dates and thus prevent them from 'crushing' anything. I love Marvel, but if one of the other studios puts their flagship in the early may slot going head to head with Marvel... that Marvel movie will ultimately fail. Avatar is huge, Batman and Superman are huge, if Sony didn't have Spider-Man they'd acquire something else huge. If Marvel is going all out try and corner the very lucrative superhero market, wouldn't it then be in other studios' best interest to put big releases before and after the marvel films to prevent Marvel Studios from 'crushing' them?

And while Disney prevents them from going under, it also means Marvel movies will sometimes have to defer to Star Wars, Pirates of the Carribean and Pixar when it comes to release dates.

The characters have super powers, but the characters themselves aren't super powers that turn Marvel Studios into a Super Studio that cannot be touched by puny things like the movie industry.

So at two movies a year your Phase 3 looks like this:
Spidey, Thor3, Cap3, GOTG2, Daredevil, Spidey2, FF, X-Men, Spidey3, Avengers3. So Avengers 3 in 2020. All sequels 5 years apart, except Spidey. No new properties like Dr. Strange, until FF or GOTG stop, so... doing the math, Dr. Strange in 2030, I think? I mean, who cares, really? At that point Shia Lebouf will be old enough to play the good doctor.

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Old 10-31-2013, 03:15 PM   #98
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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The challenge was a release timeline. So we're talking about Phase 4, then? Okay.
  • So assuming GOTG is as successful as all the other MCU films, it has fans, people want a sequel, just don't give it to them, tough cookies for them.
  • No new properties on film, check. Give all those properties to Jeph Loeb. Tough cookies for them.
  • No Iron Man 4 if there's a recast, introduce the new actor in Avengers, tough cookies for him.
  • So your 'all the properties back' Phase 4 is: Thor, Cap, Hulk, Spidey, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Dr. Strange and Captain Marvel. At two movies a year, that puts Avengers movies 5 years away from each other, and never adding any new properties (Ghost Rider/Blade/IM) unless you stop one of those or extended each phase to be 6 years long.
  • This means 6 years between sequels for every franchise.

I wouldn't enjoy that, would you?


.
I don't really think GOTG is going to be a runaway billion dollar blockbuster,but if it is,I'm sure it will take precedence.Same as IM.If RDJ comes back,there's no way they'll say 'No thanks' to an IM4.

But the point is,as much as fans want a Captain Marvel or Black Panther,Marvel knows the Powerhouse an FF film will be in the MCU.Something will have to be taken off the table.Same with Spidey (Their freakin Flagship Character!) They are are not going to get the rights back and just sit on them.(Ghost Rider,Punisher,Blade,yeah,maybe.)

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Old 10-31-2013, 03:19 PM   #99
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So... you're saying you would, in fact, enjoy six years between sequels for all these franchises?

Because the rest of your statement is agreeing with me (tough cookies for them) and apparently implying that only billion dollar blockbusters get sequels at Marvel Studios, which is obviously false, and also not actually related to what I was saying.

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Old 10-31-2013, 05:52 PM   #100
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Default Re: Should Marvel Get The Rights Back To All It's Characters?

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Nothing from the Ultimates should be incorporated in a film version.

Ever.
I, reluctantly, disagree. The Ultimates had a *few* things worth incorporating, though 90% of them are matters of imagery and appearance, rather than substance. You just need to strip away nearly all the Miller-ism from it, and replace it with infusions of 616.

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