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Old 11-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #51
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

About Malekith, I didn't like that


there was no Malekith-Surtur link.

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Old 11-01-2013, 05:04 PM   #52
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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It does seem like Marvel is deliberately making it seems like their phase two films will be darker and more epic in the pre-release marketing. However, they're actually much more comedic than their predecessors. It happened with IM 3 and it happened here two. I can see why that might piss some people off.
And now I'm worried about Cap2.

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Old 11-01-2013, 11:19 PM   #53
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It does seem like Marvel is deliberately making it seems like their phase two films will be darker and more epic in the pre-release marketing. However, they're actually much more comedic than their predecessors. It happened with IM 3 and it happened here two. I can see why that might piss some people off.
I seriously wonder whats in store for Cap 2 and GOTG.

If I remembered correctly the directors of Cap 2 directed a comedy-flick before and some users are already labeling GOTG as a comedy-sci-fi flick.

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Old 11-02-2013, 04:07 AM   #54
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Just like the original movie, when Thor is on Earth the movie (for me) grinds to an absolute halt. Can we not finally bin off Earth and set Thor completely in the other nine realms? If Jane is Thor's only connection to Earth then I hope the movie gets rid of her in Thor 3. The movie shines when it isn't on Earth.

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Old 11-02-2013, 04:23 AM   #55
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

- delete -

moved to fan review thread.


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Old 11-02-2013, 06:15 AM   #56
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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I seriously wonder whats in store for Cap 2 and GOTG.

If I remembered correctly the directors of Cap 2 directed a comedy-flick before and some users are already labeling GOTG as a comedy-sci-fi flick.
I expect them both to be full on comedies. GotG however is a more honest one, becuase it basically should be very comedic and the SDCC footage didn't hide it.

Cap 2 will most definitely be a full on comedy. The difference here though is that they will market it as a grand, intensive film with an awesome threat, whereas in reality whatever little threat or drama there is will be overshadowed by tons of silliness. That's how they've marketed the two latest films so I have no doubt in my mind that that's the case for Cap as well.

And before someone accuses me of being a "Nolan fanboy" or whatever, I actually love me some comedy and I think films like Iron Man are perfectly balanced. I just don't see any good story telling in having comic relief in every single scene.

Seriously, I think the marketing Marvel Studios is going for with these movies are as dishonest as the marketing was for Spider-Man 3, except Spider-Man 3 was much crappier.

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Old 11-02-2013, 07:00 AM   #57
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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I expect them both to be full on comedies. GotG however is a more honest one, becuase it basically should be very comedic and the SDCC footage didn't hide it.

Cap 2 will most definitely be a full on comedy. The difference here though is that they will market it as a grand, intensive film with an awesome threat, whereas in reality whatever little threat or drama there is will be overshadowed by tons of silliness. That's how they've marketed the two latest films so I have no doubt in my mind that that's the case for Cap as well.

And before someone accuses me of being a "Nolan fanboy" or whatever, I actually love me some comedy and I think films like Iron Man are perfectly balanced. I just don't see any good story telling in having comic relief in every single scene.

Seriously, I think the marketing Marvel Studios is going for with these movies are as dishonest as the marketing was for Spider-Man 3, except Spider-Man 3 was much crappier.
And I don't see any good conversation coming from hyperbole.

I'd say that all CBM's have their flaws that have to be weighed against their strengths. Comedy is a counter-balance for emotional weight so it's certainly possible to lose something, as well to gain something. On the flip side the gritty "realism" of Nolan's movies causes some things to not really make sense because the mood of the movies tells me to expect decent realism (the movies generally keep one tone, and then break it here and there). That's not meant as taking a stab, if anyone thinks that. I like those movies too.

So you can say something against good storytelling in every single CBM. They all have their flaws and I don't think any of them is more than entertainment, although that's not a negative thing.

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Old 11-02-2013, 07:28 AM   #58
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What I meant was that, for me, relying so much on trying to be funny all the time is their way of getting away with a very bland story which was the case with Thor 2 IMO.

A film can definitely be funny AND have a great story, but when I left the theatre all I could feel was that the film was damn funny at times, but there really wasn't much more to it. It made the film feel very soulless.

There was alot of potential but they wasted it on comic relief in unnecessary ways. I always bring up this example, sorry for that but I just think it reflects that so well, but the final battle could have been pretty much perfect had they not cut to Darcy in similar ways as to how the final battle in SM3 got interrupted by unnecessary comic relief (except that fight wasn't that good to begin with). One of the best scenes in the film IMO was the funeral scene because that felt like the only time they let something emotional or serious breathe.

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Old 11-02-2013, 07:48 AM   #59
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

If you think that a film can be funny and have a great story I don't see why you think the humor in TDW is tied to it not having a good story in your opinion. It sounds very implausible that they went "this story isn't very good, let's make it funny". Logic rather says that they intended to make a movie with lots of action and humor from the start.

I can agree that it could have been better without some of the Darcy things (I'm certainly not arguing that the movie doesn't have flaws). The difference is that I'm not bothered more by that than other things like I wrote in my previous post.

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Old 11-02-2013, 07:58 AM   #60
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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If you think that a film can be funny and have a great story I don't see why you think the humor in TDW is tied to it not having a good story in your opinion. It sounds very implausible that they went "this story isn't very good, let's make it funny". Logic rather says that they intended to make a movie with lots of action and humor from the start.

I can agree that it could have been better without some of the Darcy things (I'm certainly not arguing that the movie doesn't have flaws). The difference is that I'm not bothered more by that than other things like I wrote in my previous post.
It's about the amount of it, not the humour per se. Had they cut out most of the Selvig and Darcy stuff and some other unnecessary things and instead given some screen time to the villain and Sif for example, the film would still be fun but make more of a positive impact to me.

The bolded part is exactly what I feel about this film, whether that was their intention or not isn't relevant to me. Story felt like an afterthought.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:15 AM   #61
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It's about the amount of it, not the humour per se. Had they cut out most of the Selvig and Darcy stuff and some other unnecessary things and instead given some screen time to the villain and Sif for example, the film would still be fun but make more of a positive impact to me.

The bolded part is exactly what I feel about this film, whether that was their intention or not isn't relevant to me. Story felt like an afterthought.
I know that you're talking about the amount and placement of the humor.

It's nonsensical to say that you think that they thought that, even if they didn't. I would find your argument more logical if you said that you think their inclusion of humor affected their chances of building further on the story.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:23 AM   #62
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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Just like the original movie, when Thor is on Earth the movie (for me) grinds to an absolute halt. Can we not finally bin off Earth and set Thor completely in the other nine realms? If Jane is Thor's only connection to Earth then I hope the movie gets rid of her in Thor 3. The movie shines when it isn't on Earth.
I'm completely the opposite. I thought the non-Earth parts dragged and were laden with heavy, wooden dialogue.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:23 AM   #63
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I know that you're talking about the amount and placement of the humor.

It's nonsensical to say that you think that they thought that, even if they didn't. I would find your argument more logical if you said that you think their inclusion of humor affected their chances of building further on the story.
It's an "It's like..." feeling, that's what I mean. There's nothing illogical about that. It's not about their real intention, but the result. Whether they actually thought "This story isn't good, let's make it funny", isn't what matters, but the result of the movie felt like a film where the story is an afterthought. There's nothing illogical about that.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:31 AM   #64
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What I meant was that, for me, relying so much on trying to be funny all the time is their way of getting away with a very bland story which was the case with Thor 2 IMO.

A film can definitely be funny AND have a great story, but when I left the theatre all I could feel was that the film was damn funny at times, but there really wasn't much more to it. It made the film feel very soulless.

There was alot of potential but they wasted it on comic relief in unnecessary ways. I always bring up this example, sorry for that but I just think it reflects that so well, but the final battle could have been pretty much perfect had they not cut to Darcy in similar ways as to how the final battle in SM3 got interrupted by unnecessary comic relief (except that fight wasn't that good to begin with). One of the best scenes in the film IMO was the funeral scene because that felt like the only time they let something emotional or serious breathe.
I couldnt agree more with this post. When I came out of the movie all I could remember was comedy and action, and it wasnt a good feeling. These movies need more emotional weight to be truly memorable and they arent getting it at the moment, apart from one or two scenes. Again I dont want movies devoid of comedy, Iron Man 1 and Thor 1 seemed to strike a great balance, but these phase 2 movies are just taking it too far.

Emotional moments are what makes movies re-watchable as well, comedy can get old when you watch a movie a few times, but emotion and drama stays there each time you watch the movie whether its once or a hundred times.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:40 AM   #65
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I couldnt agree more with this post. When I came out of the movie all I could remember was comedy and action, and it wasnt a good feeling. These movies need more emotional weight to be truly memorable and they arent getting it at the moment, apart from one or two scenes. Again I dont want movies devoid of comedy, Iron Man 1 and Thor 1 seemed to strike a great balance, but these phase 2 movies are just taking it too far.

Emotional moments are what makes movies re-watchable as well, comedy can get old when you watch a movie a few times, but emotion and drama stays there each time you watch the movie whether its once or a hundred times.
A film this year that truly got it right for me was The Wolverine! I was so happily surprised by that film! It had plenty of humor in it, but they never overdid it. They managed to keep the film very personal, making you actually care for and care about the characters. It had humour, but it also had a great sense of emotional drama. Characters that actually felt affected by what's going on. It felt like such a great character film, which is why it's one of my favourite CBMs.

I agree about your last sentence as well, though the comedy in Dumb and Dumber never gets old!

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:41 AM   #66
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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It's an "It's like..." feeling, that's what I mean. There's nothing illogical about that. It's not about their real intention, but the result. Whether they actually thought "This story isn't good, let's make it funny", isn't what matters, but the result of the movie felt like a film where the story is an afterthought. There's nothing illogical about that.
I just think it sounds backwards. I think it's more likely that they went for making a fun action movie (which is in line with several previous movies) and the depth of the story was an effect of that, rather that they had a story and then changed things to make it funny late in the process.

I'm not arguing against your opinion though as I have no problems with people thinking differently than me about the movie. Just to be clear.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:47 AM   #67
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A film this year that truly got it right for me was The Wolverine! I was so happily surprised by that film! It had plenty of humor in it, but they never overdid it. They managed to keep the film very personal, making you actually care for and care about the characters. It had humour, but it also had a great sense of emotional drama. Characters that actually felt affected by what's going on. It felt like such a great character film, which is why it's one of my favourite CBMs.
I did like TW, and, this is a rarity BTW, only got to see it once at the cinema, but I really enjoyed, and think that movie will definitely get better with repeat viewings. As of right now MOS is my favourite CBM of the year, but after a few more re-watched of both it wouldnt surprise me if TW overtook MOS as my number 1.

And yeah, it did get the balance right, pretty much perfect in fact, there were humerous moments, some even made me LOL, but they never undercut the drama and things were always aloud to breathe.

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I agree about your last sentence as well, though the comedy in Dumb and Dumber never gets old!
True but D&D is a comedy made for laughs, if I am in the mood for laughs I would but a movie such as that on. When I put a CBM on I expect a bit more drama and emotion, and not so much comedy, especially in important moments. And to be honest I watch CBM's more than I do comedies, including ones I own.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:48 AM   #68
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Emotional moments are what makes movies re-watchable as well, comedy can get old when you watch a movie a few times, but emotion and drama stays there each time you watch the movie whether its once or a hundred times.
That's not the case for me. I tend to watch entertainment movies (like CMB's, original Star Wars etc) far more times than I watch movies with great emotional depth (like Raise the Red Lantern, City of God etc).

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:52 AM   #69
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That's not the case for me. I tend to watch entertainment movies (like CMB's, original Star Wars etc) far more times than I watch movies with great emotional depth (like Raise the Red Lantern, City of God etc).
I was talking about movies that have a mixture of both, like CBM's and Star Wars, etc. I am an action movie fan and comic book fan, so more often that not it will be that type of movie I put in my BD, BUT, it is normally the ones with the best emotional and dramatic moments, not the ones with the most comedy. I think its why I have only watched IM3 twice since buying the BD, when normally I am watching these things everyday for the 1st week when I get to own them. I just didnt feel compelled to go back to the movie as the dramatic moments and emotions fall flat, because of too much comedy for me.

I hope this isnt the case with TDW and my enjoyment of it increases with more viewings, but the amount of comedy and its sometimes very poor placement are an issue for me.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:52 AM   #70
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I just think it sounds backwards. I think it's more likely that they went for making a fun action movie (which is in line with several previous movies) and the depth of the story was an effect of that, rather that they had a story and then changed things to make it funny late in the process.

I'm not arguing against your opinion though as I have no problems with people thinking differently than me about the movie. Just to be clear.
I see what you mean now. Yeah I must have gotten it backwards or something. I blame my tired head due to loads of studies :P Overall I just feel they didn't give the story much thought at all and just went along with it and were lazy: instead of coming up with things that could have some depth they went the easy route. Like they always had in mind "How can me make a joke there?" for everything they came up with.

No offense taken, and I hope that's likewise for you.

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Old 11-02-2013, 08:57 AM   #71
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I did like TW, and, this is a rarity BTW, only got to see it once at the cinema, but I really enjoyed, and think that movie will definitely get better with repeat viewings. As of right now MOS is my favourite CBM of the year, but after a few more re-watched of both it wouldnt surprise me if TW overtook MOS as my number 1.

And yeah, it did get the balance right, pretty much perfect in fact, there were humerous moments, some even made me LOL, but they never undercut the drama and things were always aloud to breathe.



True but D&D is a comedy made for laughs, if I am in the mood for laughs I would but a movie such as that on. When I put a CBM on I expect a bit more drama and emotion, and not so much comedy, especially in important moments. And to be honest I watch CBM's more than I do comedies, including ones I own.
I actually like MoS the least due to lack of lighthearted moments haha! :P And the ridiculous amount of action.

That last comment is very true!

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Old 11-02-2013, 09:00 AM   #72
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I see what you mean now. Yeah I must have gotten it backwards or something. I blame my tired head due to loads of studies :P Overall I just feel they didn't give the story much thought at all and just went along with it and were lazy: instead of coming up with things that could have some depth they went the easy route. Like they always had in mind "How can me make a joke there?" for everything they came up with.

No offense taken, and I hope that's likewise for you.
Ah, I guess we probably misunderstood each other a bit.

No offense taken at all. I just feel that I want to be clear as discussing in the thread about what we didn't like can possibly come off as trying to defend the movie against negative opinions.

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Old 11-02-2013, 09:02 AM   #73
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I was talking about movies that have a mixture of both, like CBM's and Star Wars, etc. I am an action movie fan and comic book fan, so more often that not it will be that type of movie I put in my BD, BUT, it is normally the ones with the best emotional and dramatic moments, not the ones with the most comedy. I think its why I have only watched IM3 twice since buying the BD, when normally I am watching these things everyday for the 1st week when I get to own them. I just didnt feel compelled to go back to the movie as the dramatic moments and emotions fall flat, because of too much comedy for me.

I hope this isnt the case with TDW and my enjoyment of it increases with more viewings, but the amount of comedy and its sometimes very poor placement are an issue for me.
Well, on that point it's harder to discuss I guess, as it's even more subjective where the line is drawn. I understand what you mean though.

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Old 11-02-2013, 01:29 PM   #74
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

This movie hasn't opened here in the U.S. yet but it seems the major complaint is the humor that is kind of flat. I was hoping for an epic experience but it seems like Disney/Marvel will be giving me another mediocre experience? I have to confess that what I'm reading in here does not instill me with confidence. I was a bit disappointed with Ironman 3 in that we did not see Ironman all that much in sort of the same way I was disappointed with Venom in Spidey 3. Would it really kill Disney/Marvel to make strictly serious, dramatic superhero movies that had a normal level of levity in them where you 100% believed everyone was in danger and that death of a character's physical body might be a permanent thing as well as not making characters out to be cheesy caricatures? It looks like I may be looking more forward to the second Hobbit movie and the powerful high stakes drama of the next X-Men movie. Disney/Marvel needs to stop smoking whatever happy weed they're smoking and get serious, start giving a picky moviegoer like me some high stakes drama or my interest will start waning for their product.

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Old 11-02-2013, 01:37 PM   #75
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Somewhere in the Southwest
Posts: 9,132
Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla2000 View Post
Would it really kill Disney/Marvel to make strictly serious, dramatic superhero movies that had a normal level of levity in them where you 100% believed everyone was in danger and that death of a character's physical body might be a permanent thing as well as not making characters out to be cheesy caricatures? It looks like I may be looking more forward to the second Hobbit movie and the powerful high stakes drama of the next X-Men movie. Disney/Marvel needs to stop smoking whatever happy weed they're smoking and get serious, start giving a picky moviegoer like me some high stakes drama or my interest will start waning for their product.
.....Your post is so completely over the top it's not even funny. The loss of your dollar or interest in their product won't mean anything to them. You're clearly in the minority.


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