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Old 11-03-2013, 03:33 AM   #101
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

For all the humor present in this movie they missed a great opportunity at some when Thor told Jane that "Heimdall couldn't see her anymore"

Would be fun if she was like "soo, dude is always watching...? That's kinda creepy"

Then later when Jane meets Heimdall she could give Heimdall this weirded out look as akwardness ensues.

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Old 11-03-2013, 03:34 AM   #102
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For all the humor present in this movie they missed a great opportunity at some when Thor told Jane that "Heimdall couldn't see her anymore"

Would be fun if she was like "soo, dude is always watching...? That's kinda creepy"

Then later when Jane meets Heimdall she could give Heimdall this weirded out look as akwardness ensues.
Yeah, that would've worked.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 03:39 AM   #103
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

MCU movies are definitely more accessible.

"fun enough" is how a lot of critics are describing this movie.

Whereas with MOS you love a lot of people who love it, and a lot of people who hate it.

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Old 11-03-2013, 03:41 AM   #104
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Why is it that the humour in T:TDW succeeds in covering up for the film's failures, but the action shots in MoS do not succeed in covering up for that film's failure? We agree on many of the film's problems, yet it right now has an 83% critical rating and 88% audience rating on RT. As far as general reactions go, T:TDW is a much better movie. Is it that the underlying story is only nearly as bad and not as bad, or that the humour in T:TDW is better than the action in MoS?

Also, you're being kinder than I am, this is what I wrote on my review:

Thor 2: The Dark World is what one would get if Man of Steel and Chronicles of Riddick got together, ****ed, and then somehow made a baby that managed so synthesise the worst of both of them and none of the good.
I'm probably kinder because for the most part the film is far more ambitious than the previous movie, I can appreciate it more, and for the most part it was enjoyable. There's a lot I do like, especially aesthetically. As for MoS it was a case of overload, on top of that the film takes it self too seriously, had it been a bit more lighthearted then I dare say reaction to it would have been kinder and its flaws far more forgiving.

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Old 11-03-2013, 03:42 AM   #105
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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For all the humor present in this movie they missed a great opportunity at some when Thor told Jane that "Heimdall couldn't see her anymore"

Would be fun if she was like "soo, dude is always watching...? That's kinda creepy"

Then later when Jane meets Heimdall she could give Heimdall this weirded out look as akwardness ensues.
That's actually really funny. lol

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Old 11-03-2013, 03:52 AM   #106
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I'm probably kinder because for the most part the film is far more ambitious than the previous movie, I can appreciate it more, and for the most part it was enjoyable. There's a lot I do like, especially aesthetically. As for MoS it was a case of overload, on top of that the film takes it self too seriously, had it been a bit more lighthearted then I dare say reaction to it would have been kinder and its flaws far more forgiving.
Agree with the ambitious part, in terms expanding the world and visual aesthetic of the franchise. Story wise, not ambitious in the slightest.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 04:43 AM   #107
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

It corrected one of the main problems of Thor 1, that Asgard felt like it comprised of: the Bifrost, a long bridge, and a throne room.

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Old 11-03-2013, 04:53 AM   #108
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It corrected one of the main problems of Thor 1, that Asgard felt like it comprised of: the Bifrost, a long bridge, and a throne room.
You forgot the dining hall. Volstagg sure didn't.

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Old 11-03-2013, 07:38 AM   #109
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Because the action in the 2nd half of Man of Steel is unrelenting. That film, as much as I love that damn thing to death, is a tale of two halves. With no real balance of levity within the second half of that picture, plus people's problems with the depiction of said action and the character of Superman, you can see why Man of Steel got the worse reviews.

I think Man of Steel is easily a better picture than The Dark World but it doesn't surprise me it's getting better reviewed. Marvel has the ball rolling and people like the tone of the Marvel films. They are family films. Pure entertainment.
I don't have any problems seeing why those that dislike TDW do, but for me I think it's a more consistent film even when judged against smaller parts of MoS. I think TDW managed to be what it wanted to be, while I don't think MoS does, which is why I have the opposite opinion when it comes to which is the better film.

For example, I feel that the entire Krypton segment is an exercise in self-contradiction. I also think it unintentionally paints Superman in a bad light at several key stages (and I'm fine with him killing Zod). I don't think TDW has such stability problems. The odd part about MoS was that I went in with several specific worries but all of them turned out to be good things and instead it was the rest that didn't work for me.

Even though I really like TDW I'm still surprised it has worked as well as it has with the critics this far (the US is likely to sink it a bit, like they usually do) because basically mixing Norse mythology, LotR and Star Wars is a very bold thing to sell to the public. When you analyze it like that it seems extremely tough to pull off, while MoS does something much more conservative with something that is already established with the public.

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Old 11-03-2013, 07:41 AM   #110
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You forgot the dining hall. Volstagg sure didn't.
And poor Volstagg had to see Thor throw all that food on the floor.

There was also Odin's vault and his sleeping chamber. But TDW definitely did a better job at making Asgard feel like an actual place.

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Old 11-03-2013, 07:53 AM   #111
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I don't have any problems seeing why those that dislike TDW do, but for me I think it's a more consistent film even when judged against smaller parts of MoS. I think TDW managed to be what it wanted to be, while I don't think MoS does, which is why I have the opposite opinion when it comes to which is the better film.

For example, I feel that the entire Krypton segment is an exercise in self-contradiction. I also think it unintentionally paints Superman in a bad light at several key stages (and I'm fine with him killing Zod). I don't think TDW has such stability problems. The odd part about MoS was that I went in with several specific worries but all of them turned out to be good things and instead it was the rest that didn't work for me.

Even though I really like TDW I'm still surprised it has worked as well as it has with the critics this far (the US is likely to sink it a bit, like they usually do) because basically mixing Norse mythology, LotR and Star Wars is a very bold thing to sell to the public. When you analyze it like that it seems extremely tough to pull off, while MoS does something much more conservative with something that is already established with the public.
Actually, I think Man of Steel and The Dark World are consistent in what they wanted to achieve. I just think the Dark World had the potential to be more than what it is and you can see it within the framework of the edit. It's too fast. Nothing holds weight because we're rushing to the next thing. And the comedy placement in the second half doesn't help matter.

Having said that, when it does work (especially visually), it's quite enjoyable to watch. The cast is giving it their all and I do love the implications of the ending when it comes to the two lead characters.

But, I think Man of Steel fully reaches it's potential for almost all of it. I think the Dark World doesn't. And I don't really think it's Taylor's fault that it doesn't.

Have you seen his interviews? Boy, does he not look all that thrilled with the cut that's released.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 08:04 AM   #112
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Do you have any link to one of those interviews? Would be interesting to read what he has to say.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:13 AM   #113
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Do you have any link to one of those interviews? Would be interesting to read what he has to say.
It's not so much in what he says. It's just watching the video interviews, you can kind of read between the lines that this was not the cut he wanted.

The collider.com interview with Taylor, I think, is the one that clued me in on his unhappiness with portions of this cut.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 08:17 AM   #114
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It's not so much in what he says. It's just watching the video interviews, you can kind of read between the lines that this was not the cut he wanted.

The collider.com interview with Taylor, I think, is the one that clued me in on his unhappiness with portions of this cut.
Ah OK! I remember rumours about some dispute between Taylor and the heads of Marvel Studios.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:18 AM   #115
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Actually, I think Man of Steel and The Dark World are consistent in what they wanted to achieve. I just think the Dark World had the potential to be more than what it is and you can see it within the framework of the edit. It's too fast. Nothing holds weight because we're rushing to the next thing. And the comedy placement in the second half doesn't help matter.

Having said that, when it does work (especially visually), it's quite enjoyable to watch. The cast is giving it their all and I do love the implications of the ending when it comes to the two lead characters.

But, I think Man of Steel fully reaches it's potential for almost all of it. I think the Dark World doesn't. And I don't really think it's Taylor's fault that it doesn't.

Have you seen his interviews? Boy, does he not look all that thrilled with the cut that's released.
We disagree then because MoS so often says one thing and shows the contrary. They said a lot of things about Krypton but the only thing that they didn't contradict was that it was going to blow up. They also manage to make Clark/Superman seem less heroic at times and actually putting people in danger instead. I dont think Goyer really understands how it makes Superman look when he actually takes the superpowered fight to Smallville. These are the things that I don't think are intended and therefor it doesn't become what it's supposed to be.

If you think that TDW is paced too quickly I'd still take managing to show what's intended in quick pace over contradicting itself often. It still allows TDW to be what it wants to be. I agree that the humor lowers the impact of some things, but MoS manages to jump away from important things as well. Supes grieves for Zod a few seconds before it becomes a romantic scene, and no one cares about Metropolis being destroyed.

As for Taylor, I haven't seen anything that indicates that he's unhappy with the movie itself. He doesn't like the mid-credits scene but that's about it. Even when he criticized that he said that it's the only thing he doesn't want to take credit for. He's also said several times how the run time hasn't been an issue at all, which would indicate that your issue with the movie being fast paced is what he wanted.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:18 AM   #116
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Ah OK! I remember rumours about some dispute between Taylor and the heads of Marvel Studios.
Yeah, they nixed that there were problems but again, seeing those video interviews with Taylor say otherwise in my opinion.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 08:23 AM   #117
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We disagree then because MoS so often says one thing and shows the contrary. They said a lot of things about Krypton but the only thing that they didn't contradict was that it was going to blow up. They also manage to make Clark/Superman seem less heroic at times and actually putting people in danger instead. I dont think Goyer really understands how it makes Superman look when he actually takes the superpowered fight to Smallville. These are the things that I don't think are intended and therefor it doesn't become what it's supposed to be.

If you think that TDW is paced too quickly I'd still take managing to show what's intended in quick pace over contradicting itself often. It still allows TDW to be what it wants to be. I agree that the humor lowers the impact of some things, but MoS manages to jump away from important things as well. Supes grieves for Zod a few seconds before it becomes a romantic scene, and no one cares about Metropolis being destroyed.

As for Taylor, I haven't seen anything that indicates that he's unhappy with the movie itself. He doesn't like the mid-credits scene but that's about it. Even when he criticized that he said that it's the only thing he doesn't want to take credit for. He's also said several times how the run time hasn't been an issue at all, which would indicate that your issue with the movie being fast paced is what he wanted.
Taylor doesn't like the opening prologue, which is exposition dump. He also had a give and take when it came to the humor of the picture. He said in one interview that he thought it was his job to darkening up the world and the characters but resigned himself to the idea that the Marvel films push the humor as well, more so than I think he likes it to be.

You can't just ignore the weird placement of humor through out this film. It's startling in the back half of the picture...especially when the stakes get higher and higher.

It's done for pure entertainment purposes but cuts the legs from underneath the climax which is suppose to be real, real important to the audience.

Avengers had moments like that too.

 
Old 11-03-2013, 08:29 AM   #118
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Actually, I think Man of Steel and The Dark World are consistent in what they wanted to achieve. I just think the Dark World had the potential to be more than what it is and you can see it within the framework of the edit. It's too fast. Nothing holds weight because we're rushing to the next thing. And the comedy placement in the second half doesn't help matter.

Having said that, when it does work (especially visually), it's quite enjoyable to watch. The cast is giving it their all and I do love the implications of the ending when it comes to the two lead characters.

But, I think Man of Steel fully reaches it's potential for almost all of it. I think the Dark World doesn't. And I don't really think it's Taylor's fault that it doesn't.

Have you seen his interviews? Boy, does he not look all that thrilled with the cut that's released.
In terms of action, then yes it. The story on the other hand.......

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We disagree then because MoS so often says one thing and shows the contrary. They said a lot of things about Krypton but the only thing that they didn't contradict was that it was going to blow up. They also manage to make Clark/Superman seem less heroic at times and actually putting people in danger instead. I dont think Goyer really understands how it makes Superman look when he actually takes the superpowered fight to Smallville. These are the things that I don't think are intended and therefor it doesn't become what it's supposed to be.

If you think that TDW is paced too quickly I'd still take managing to show what's intended in quick pace over contradicting itself often. It still allows TDW to be what it wants to be. I agree that the humor lowers the impact of some things, but MoS manages to jump away from important things as well. Supes grieves for Zod a few seconds before it becomes a romantic scene, and no one cares about Metropolis being destroyed.

As for Taylor, I haven't seen anything that indicates that he's unhappy with the movie itself. He doesn't like the mid-credits scene but that's about it. Even when he criticized that he said that it's the only thing he doesn't want to take credit for. He's also said several times how the run time hasn't been an issue at all, which would indicate that your issue with the movie being fast paced is what he wanted.
Agreed. Felt the same way, thought I was the only one. The prime examples being Superman crashing Zod through the gas station and crashing Faora into the Ihop and trying to fight her inside the shop whilst there's people inside. I blame Snyder more than Goyer here. It was a good movie overall.The Smallville fight was great though but after that, the movie when downhill for me. I just disliked the 3rd act, especially the part when Supes starts fighting tentacles, was that really neccessary?


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Old 11-03-2013, 08:39 AM   #119
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Actually, I think Man of Steel and The Dark World are consistent in what they wanted to achieve. I just think the Dark World had the potential to be more than what it is and you can see it within the framework of the edit. It's too fast. Nothing holds weight because we're rushing to the next thing. And the comedy placement in the second half doesn't help matter.

Having said that, when it does work (especially visually), it's quite enjoyable to watch. The cast is giving it their all and I do love the implications of the ending when it comes to the two lead characters.

But, I think Man of Steel fully reaches it's potential for almost all of it. I think the Dark World doesn't. And I don't really think it's Taylor's fault that it doesn't.

Have you seen his interviews? Boy, does he not look all that thrilled with the cut that's released.
I couldnt agree more with your summation of both movies. I have said it a lot these past 2 years, but Thor had the potential to be bigger and better than The Avengers, but for some reason Marvel didnt want that, and some of what Taylor wanted to do, which I think would have made the movie better, was dumped in favour of humour and safety.

MOS was thankfully left to its devices, and while it had some problems it was a much more satisfying movie to me. Thor 2 was good and very enjoyable, but you just cant help feeling they didnt explore the potential of the story, and the misplaced humour does effect things, especially in the 2nd half of the movie.

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It's not so much in what he says. It's just watching the video interviews, you can kind of read between the lines that this was not the cut he wanted.

The collider.com interview with Taylor, I think, is the one that clued me in on his unhappiness with portions of this cut.
Yeah, its subtle, but his unhappiness with a lot of things is there, he obviously wanted the movie to be darker, but he mentioned having to stick to the marvel 'model,' he mentions this several times in the Empire article from the recent issue. I think the movies problems come from Marvel's interference, same with TIH and IM2. As I have said before I like around 70% of the humour in the movie, but around 30% was mis-placed and not very funny, and it under-cutting serious moments is a BIG problem of both phase 2 movies so far. The run-time was an issue as well because things just moved too fast, many scene's needed more time to breathe.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:45 AM   #120
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Taylor doesn't like the opening prologue, which is exposition dump. He also had a give and take when it came to the humor of the picture. He said in one interview that he thought it was his job to darkening up the world and the characters but resigned himself to the idea that the Marvel films push the humor as well, more so than I think he likes it to be.

You can't just ignore the weird placement of humor through out this film. It's startling in the back half of the picture...especially when the stakes get higher and higher.

It's done for pure entertainment purposes but cuts the legs from underneath the climax which is suppose to be real, real important to the audience.

Avengers had moments like that too.
I haven't seen him say that but I'll take your word for it. He certainly seems to be one to speak his mind. Still he has said that there's only one thing he's happy not to take credit for (the mid-credits scene) so it doesn't look like a big schism.

I would certainly have enjoyed a darker version too but I don't think it ever gets to a point where the movie aspires to say one thing and it turns out the opposite. I think it has consistency. Then whether you like the humor or not is of course a personal judgement.

I could have done with a bit less Darcy in the final conflict but I still like that better than most serious endings in CMB's. I understand why some would feel different than I do though and I'm interested to see if I like it more or less on the second viewing.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:47 AM   #121
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If Taylor actually said that, it makes me think a lot of the rumors might have been true.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:57 AM   #122
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The Marvel or Disney interference could also explain why he doesn't want to come back. Sure there could be many things, perhaps he prefers to film TV series or something else, but I think that could be part of the reason too. I remember during the Phase I time that some people involved in making the films weren't very happy with Marvel Studios when it came to salary and freedom. Of course there is such problems in every studio, but there was alot of talk about that back in the days.

At the same time, I understand MS too. Perhaps Taylor's original ideas weren't the best, we will never know. But I feel that MS might be playing it a bit too safe, while they also are some of the most gambling studios (I mean: GotG and Ant-Man? Iron Man in the first place? That shows confidence!). A slightly darker Thor movie wouldn't hurt, and I'm not speaking about Nolan dark, but more like what the trailers made it look like. I don't even think "dark" is the right word, but a bit less fluff and more weight.

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Old 11-03-2013, 09:09 AM   #123
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The Marvel or Disney interference could also explain why he doesn't want to come back. Sure there could be many things, perhaps he prefers to film TV series or something else, but I think that could be part of the reason too. I remember during the Phase I time that some people involved in making the films weren't very happy with Marvel Studios when it came to salary and freedom. Of course there is such problems in every studio, but there was alot of talk about that back in the days.

At the same time, I understand MS too. Perhaps Taylor's original ideas weren't the best, we will never know. But I feel that MS might be playing it a bit too safe, while they also are some of the most gambling studios (I mean: GotG and Ant-Man? Iron Man in the first place? That shows confidence!). A slightly darker Thor movie wouldn't hurt, and I'm not speaking about Nolan dark, but more like what the trailers made it look like. I don't even think "dark" is the right word, but a bit less fluff and more weight.
If I want to watch a dark nolan-like movie I will watch a Nolan movie, but the MCU movies being a bit darker, not so safe and a lot more serious would not hurt at all.

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2014 movie ratings out of 10:

1)X-Men: DOFP-10(2)Interstellar-9.5(3)Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes-9.5(4)Guardians Of The Galaxy-9.5(5)Gone Girl-9(6)Captain America: TWS-9(7)Edge Of Tomorrow-9(8)How To Train Your Dragon 2-9(9)WOWS-8.5(10)Godzilla-8(11)Neighbours-8(12)Amazing Spider-Man 2-7.5(13)Lego Movie-7.5(14)Transformers: AOE-7.5(15)Robocop-7.5(16)Sin City: ADTDF-7(17)300:ROAE-7(18)The Equalizer-7(19)MWTDITW-7(20)47 Ronin-6(21)Monuments Men-5(22)Ride Along-5(23)I, Frankenstein-3
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:16 AM   #124
Mjölnir
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Originally Posted by AVEITWITHJAMON View Post
If I want to watch a dark nolan-like movie I will watch a Nolan movie, but the MCU movies being a bit darker, not so safe and a lot more serious would not hurt at all.
It's a bit funny to see how this is called safe now, when a few years ago the common view was that the only way to do superheroes was to go darker and grittier.

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Old 11-03-2013, 09:19 AM   #125
AVEITWITHJAMON
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Default Re: Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
It's a bit funny to see how this is called safe now, when a few years ago the common view was that the only way to do superheroes was to go darker and grittier.
True, but thats the influence the Nolan Batman movies had, which was substantial, and they are superb IMO. But, I think something in the middle of them and what the MCU are currently doing would be perfect going forward. The obvious exception being GOTG as that NEEDS humour in it.

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2014 movie ratings out of 10:

1)X-Men: DOFP-10(2)Interstellar-9.5(3)Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes-9.5(4)Guardians Of The Galaxy-9.5(5)Gone Girl-9(6)Captain America: TWS-9(7)Edge Of Tomorrow-9(8)How To Train Your Dragon 2-9(9)WOWS-8.5(10)Godzilla-8(11)Neighbours-8(12)Amazing Spider-Man 2-7.5(13)Lego Movie-7.5(14)Transformers: AOE-7.5(15)Robocop-7.5(16)Sin City: ADTDF-7(17)300:ROAE-7(18)The Equalizer-7(19)MWTDITW-7(20)47 Ronin-6(21)Monuments Men-5(22)Ride Along-5(23)I, Frankenstein-3
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