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Old 10-29-2013, 08:59 PM   #551
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Eh, that's always going to happen, apparently. The people who hate the Mandarin Twist are always going to hate the Mandarin Twist, and we can rationalize and disprove them point by point, but they're *still* always going to hate the Mandarin Twist.
I wasn't aware you could disprove someone's opinion.

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The problem isn't that it's not "accurate" to the comics, the problem is the deceptive marketing, trailer, advertising etc.
Look I personally despise the twist myself, however I think you are incorrect in saying the marketing was deceptive. Plenty of movies have enormous twists which seemingly contradict their trailers (Fight Club, Sixth Sense are examples). I think the major problem with it in the case of Iron Man 3 is that we go from thinking of Ben Kingsley as this vicious, menacing Mandarin character to seeing him as a very poorly written extremely exaggerated joke in the matter of a few seconds. I think if the twist had been handled in a more serious manner I would be able to accept it as a good thing. Why couldn't they have portrayed Trevor as someone who was scared of those around him, only obeying Killian because of fear and then being fearful of Tony Stark as well. The constant jokes, and I mean constant were just tiresome and ended up just pissing me off.

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It wasn't just a twist, it was a gag. The audience believing in this sort of super-terrorist was a big gag, there was nothing at the end of that anticipation but a punchline.
This sums it up perfectly

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Old 10-29-2013, 09:19 PM   #552
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Uncle Ben's Death being retconed
How was his death retconed?

As far as I know,he stayed dead.

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Old 10-29-2013, 10:01 PM   #553
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

The death itself wasn't retconned, but the circumstances of it were, and the retcon sucked big time.

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Old 10-30-2013, 02:33 PM   #554
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Ah!More S-M 3 bashing it is,then?Got it.


You guys really need to quit obsessing over it.I hate Batman 89's use of the Joker as the killer of Batman's parents,but you don't see me trolling about the movie every chance I get.

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Old 10-30-2013, 04:43 PM   #555
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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You guys really need to quit obsessing over it.I hate Batman 89's use of the Joker as the killer of Batman's parents,but you don't see me trolling about the movie every chance I get.
Well this thread was pretty much designed for that exact purpose, complaining about what was done wrong.

Also, there is a significant difference there. The Joker was established as the killer of Bruce Wayne's parents and that was that. It wasn't changed in Batman Forever that suddenly Edward Nygma was responsible.

That is the issue, that they established one thing in Movie 1 and then changed it in movie 3.

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Old 10-31-2013, 08:29 PM   #556
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And thus took ruined both the point of the event in SM 1 AND Peter's motivation to be Spider Man.

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Old 11-01-2013, 09:24 AM   #557
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Ah!More S-M 3 bashing it is,then?Got it.


You guys really need to quit obsessing over it.I hate Batman 89's use of the Joker as the killer of Batman's parents,but you don't see me trolling about the movie every chance I get.
You know not to derail here but even though it wasnt authentic i thought it was a nice tie in at the time.I used to think the guy who played the young Joker was a striking looking Joker.

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Old 11-01-2013, 09:33 AM   #558
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Hulk 1. Terrible. Made me dislike a character I used to like.

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Old 11-01-2013, 12:55 PM   #559
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by Human Torch View Post
Ah!More S-M 3 bashing it is,then?Got it.


You guys really need to quit obsessing over it.I hate Batman 89's use of the Joker as the killer of Batman's parents,but you don't see me trolling about the movie every chance I get.
Well, while I never liked that movie what they did with the Joker vis-a-vie Batman's parents never bothered me much because I know zip about Batman(nor have I ever really cared) so they could change whatever they wanted to and it'd all seem like it was they way it was supposed to be to me.

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Old 11-01-2013, 06:09 PM   #560
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Avi arad is it for me. Anything that I would face palm I associate with him, right or wrong.

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Old 11-02-2013, 11:35 AM   #561
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

The treatment of Cyclops in the x-men films. First one and 2nd one his role was too small and in the third, he's killed off pointlessly.

I'm also not fond of Galactus being a cloud in FF2 or of Mandarin being "trevor"(yeah, it's kinda funny but I liked fake Mandarin so much it was disappointing).

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Old 11-02-2013, 12:46 PM   #562
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Avi arad is it for me. Anything that I would face palm I associate with him, right or wrong.
I agree but at the same time without his early push to get Marvel into the movies we'd likely have no Marvel on film right now and likely with it no superhero cinema renaissance.

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Old 11-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #563
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Hulk 1. Terrible. Made me dislike a character I used to like.

Cosigned, though the character is and will always be my #1 favorite. Even the worst big budget superhero movie ever made(which this is, IMO) wouldn't stop me of being a fan of Hulk from the comics.

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Old 11-02-2013, 02:17 PM   #564
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I would agree, I think Ang Lee's Hulk is still to this day my least favorite comic book movie. I was 11 when that came out and even at that young age, where I honestly loved any and every movie I saw just out of sheer naivety, I thought it was a heaping pile of garbage. I tried watching it all the way through a few years ago and couldn't make it more than 45 minutes. It's not just that it's a bad movie, it definitely is, it's just that there's this dark, depressing vibe around the whole film. It's humorless and dour, which would be fine if it were a decent movie, but it's not. I know there are people out there that adamantly defend it but for the life of me I don't get it.
SM3 atleast had bits and pieces that I liked.
Oh, and X-men origins Wolverine probably takes a close second. I hated that crapfest almost as much.

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Old 11-02-2013, 02:36 PM   #565
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Lee's Hulk has serious problems, but it's certainly not a movie for a 11 year older. And Hulk, of all superheroes, is maybe the one that doesn't need humor.

That said, it was a bad mix of formulaistic commercial superhero movie and a psychodrama kind of film. And those two didn't match well in this movie. But Hulk versus the army was an excellent action sequence.

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Old 11-02-2013, 10:24 PM   #566
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

All Marvel films, hell all superhero films need some humor. But I agree, Hulk should have little of it. Maybe about as much as there was in Batman Begins. Most superhero movies I have the benefit of having never been a fan of the property nor being very familiar with the mythos so I can just take the movie as it is. But Hulk and Iron Man are my fandom and so I approach their films from a much different perspective. And in Anghulk what I saw was Stan Lee's and PAD's material just getting ***-raped my AngLee and Schamus. Yes, Hulk should be serious and have a psychological aspect to it. But what good is that when Hulk isn't even allowed to be a character in his own movie and some Einstein thinks nanomeds, mutant poodles and Absorbing Dad are ok instead. Classic case of overthinking the material.

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Old 11-03-2013, 12:34 AM   #567
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All Marvel films, hell all superhero films need some humor. But I agree, Hulk should have little of it. Maybe about as much as there was in Batman Begins. Most superhero movies I have the benefit of having never been a fan of the property nor being very familiar with the mythos so I can just take the movie as it is. But Hulk and Iron Man are my fandom and so I approach their films from a much different perspective. And in Anghulk what I saw was Stan Lee's and PAD's material just getting ***-raped my AngLee and Schamus. Yes, Hulk should be serious and have a psychological aspect to it. But what good is that when Hulk isn't even allowed to be a character in his own movie and some Einstein thinks nanomeds, mutant poodles and Absorbing Dad are ok instead. Classic case of overthinking the material.
Superhero movie need humor as much as a love interest; they can certainly make the most of it, but many times they're just there because of following a formula and it's not very good.

And well, Hulk was as little of a character in Ang Lee's movie as he was in Leterrier's movie or in Avengers.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:14 AM   #568
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Superhero movie need humor as much as a love interest; they can certainly make the most of it, but many times they're just there because of following a formula and it's not very good.

And well, Hulk was as little of a character in Ang Lee's movie as he was in Leterrier's movie or in Avengers.
True but at least in those other films they ended up being well received, crowd pleasing films and that leaves hope for future films to be made where they might eventually get it right. I still say we have yet to see Hulk as he truly should be on screen, let alone delve into his other incarnations such as Joe Fixit. But Avengers came the closest.

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Old 11-03-2013, 08:35 AM   #569
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True but at least in those other films they ended up being well received, crowd pleasing films and that leaves hope for future films to be made where they might eventually get it right. I still say we have yet to see Hulk as he truly should be on screen, let alone delve into his other incarnations such as Joe Fixit. But Avengers came the closest.
Yes, but I said it because not being a character (I somehow disagree but let's say it's 100% true) is far from being Ang Lee's movie exclusive thing.

Now from what we've seen, I don't think making Hulk speak is anywhere near the minds of the producers and film makers (I'm assuming a speaking Hulk is what you mean by 'Hulk being a character.' If it's not I apologize). If anything, I think they'll say, 'so, Hulk was successful in Avengers because there was lots of jokes. Therefore we need a comedy Hulk movie.' They have made three movies with Hulk in them and he's far from becoming a speaking role.

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Old 11-13-2013, 07:15 AM   #570
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Yes, but I said it because not being a character (I somehow disagree but let's say it's 100% true) is far from being Ang Lee's movie exclusive thing.

Now from what we've seen, I don't think making Hulk speak is anywhere near the minds of the producers and film makers (I'm assuming a speaking Hulk is what you mean by 'Hulk being a character.' If it's not I apologize). If anything, I think they'll say, 'so, Hulk was successful in Avengers because there was lots of jokes. Therefore we need a comedy Hulk movie.' They have made three movies with Hulk in them and he's far from becoming a speaking role.
Having the Hulk speak is core in helping the beliveability of a CG character.Also to the mythos of the two personas.

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Old 11-13-2013, 07:26 AM   #571
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Angs Hulk emoted more than the others since imo.

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Old 11-13-2013, 12:37 PM   #572
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Having the Hulk speak is core in helping the beliveability of a CG character.Also to the mythos of the two personas.
King Kong didn't speak and he was a believable CGI character in Jackson's movie. The character must look good, that's it. And people seemed to enjoy him in Avengers and he didn't speak there either.

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Old 11-20-2013, 06:49 PM   #573
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King Kong didn't speak and he was a believable CGI character in Jackson's movie. The character must look good, that's it. And people seemed to enjoy him in Avengers and he didn't speak there either.
I see that but the push has to be even harder without it.
Not only that but the angst between Banner and Hulk is that they are two distinct personalities like Dr.Jekyll and Mr.Hyde.
As it is now its Banner and then a big green growling Banner.
Banner and Green Banner the plot of the movie is lost.
the battle of two persons over one body.
This is why he did so well in Avengers because he played off everyone else.So if this continues he will always only be a good supporting character.

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Old 11-23-2013, 03:52 PM   #574
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Ghost Rider and the wolverine movies

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Old 11-23-2013, 10:13 PM   #575
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King Kong didn't speak and he was a believable CGI character in Jackson's movie. The character must look good, that's it. And people seemed to enjoy him in Avengers and he didn't speak there either.
Yes, he did, he just didn't speak very much. Also, the comparison between Hulk an KK is just silly.

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