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View Poll Results: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight ?
Thor hammers Supes into oblivion 6 17.14%
Thor wins, but barely 5 14.29%
It's a draw, they fight to a standstill 2 5.71%
Superman wins, but barely 8 22.86%
Superman demolishes Thor easily 11 31.43%
Whoever's movie makes more money wins 3 8.57%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-03-2013, 06:11 AM   #51
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
That's more like it. Thanks for putting up some arguments !

1. Not so sure about Thor not being KO'ed. I think Kurse
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
had knocked him out and was pounding his face into Hamburger before Loki speared him from behind.
. Although you are correct, Supes did get knocked down, and possibly knocked out for a few seconds by the giant Kryptonian.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
There's nothing indicating that Thor is knocked out by Kurse, he just can't get up as Kurse hits so hard. You'll notice that Thor gets right up after Kurse is taken out and shows no more sign of injury than a few cuts.

He is knocked out one time though, when he disrupts the Aether ritual at the end. That's hard to compare to any other superhero though as that power is beyond any of them.


And just to comment on the thread, I don't think anyone that almost dies from an asthma attack because the air gets a bit different has any right to win this fight. Thor is a jock, Superman is a nerd.

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Old 11-03-2013, 07:52 AM   #52
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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.... and while we're here. Do you think Supes could lift mjolnir ?


I say yes, because of his physical strength, and moral worthiness.

But I'm biased.

What do the Asgardi-fans think >
God No!!! Only Wonder Woman has meets that criteria.

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Old 11-03-2013, 04:56 PM   #53
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Wink Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Originally Posted by Mjölnir View Post
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
There's nothing indicating that Thor is knocked out by Kurse, he just can't get up as Kurse hits so hard. You'll notice that Thor gets right up after Kurse is taken out and shows no more sign of injury than a few cuts.

He is knocked out one time though, when he disrupts the Aether ritual at the end. That's hard to compare to any other superhero though as that power is beyond any of them.


And just to comment on the thread, I don't think anyone that almost dies from an asthma attack because the air gets a bit different has any right to win this fight. Thor is a jock, Superman is a nerd.


Oh-ho, so it's like that ! Asthma huh ? Well, you admitted in your post, that Thor got KO'ed by an Elf, come on, on the face of it, that's not a very tough look. LOL.


I need to see TDW again, which I'm looking forward to, as it was a great
watch the first time, and I reckon I'll like it even more the second time,
BUT it certainly looked to me that if Loki hadn't intervened Kurse would have beaten Thor to death. It's not that he's just hitting hard, it's that
Thor can't fight back because he's getting seriously messed up.


Hard to tell, but Thor certainly wasn't fighting
back -personally, I can't see you guys arguing that Thor was just trying to lull Kurse into a false sense of security, or try to injure Kurse's fists with his face, or maybe he was waiting for Kurse's arms got tired from pounding on him - because if you do, then really Loki didn't need to step in. Obviously, given the ending, Loki didn't die (thank goodness, as while Thor's a good lead, Loki's the best character in the franchise), but I do get the feeling that he did actually try to save Thor from Kurse, regardless of his motivations, that's a reasonably noble act.

In fact, if Loki didn't need to step in, he probably wouldn't have. All this suggests that Thor was in serious trouble. Which is good, because if the main character's don't look like they're under a serious threat, then nobody cares what happens (like those godawful Star Wars prequels,
who gave a **** when Qui-Gon died ? not me). That's the brilliance,
of the Lord of the Rings films (especially the first one), when the characters are running away from every Orc in the world, you really get a sense of "They're screwed ! How are they going to get out of this one?"
and pretty much every person who I talked to, who thought that, had read the book (myself included). That's just good storytelling.

so on that note, I thought that Kurse had to be a legitimate threat to Thor (he certainly is in the comics), and that's good, because it makes the story (and thus the movie better).
If you argue that Thor wasn't really in trouble, it diminishes the film.


And now, because you made that asthma comment, I have to
get a bit silly again....

....Superman takes a beating from 2 Kryptonians, gets knocked out, but then recovers, smacks them around and gets up without a scratch ( I concede that showing a bit of blood would have been appropriate at this point). Next time Thor gets hit by a locomotive thrown from half-a mile away, or slammed through a couple of buildings until he hits a bank-vault, or re-enters Earth's atmosphere from space (while fighting somebody..... 30,000 feet, hah ! that's nothing) maybe I'll concede he's got a decent chance against Supes.


BTW on the worthiness front, Odin says "Whoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy shall possess the power of Thor." Hard to say that Supes ain't gonna be worthy,(hmmm...saved Earth, kids on the bus, only kills as a last resort) but also clearly Odin's a bit sexist, as "he" seems to suggest that WW wouldn't be worthy - kidding of course, she's more than worthy.

Really enjoying all the Asgardi-fans and their defence of Thor,
if you see a big hammer around, make sure you pick it up because
y'all are worthy !

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Old 11-03-2013, 05:25 PM   #54
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

Unless Thor has Kryptonite in his pocket I think that Superman has the advantage since his body density makes him nigh invincible.

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Old 11-03-2013, 05:48 PM   #55
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

It will be interesting to see how Thor takes on an enemy with super-speed like Quicksilver, if he even does at all. Because right now, I'm imagining that he wouldn't have a chance against Faora. And she has more abilities than just super-speed.

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Old 11-03-2013, 09:15 PM   #56
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Originally Posted by ThePowerCosmic View Post
It will be interesting to see how Thor takes on an enemy with super-speed like Quicksilver, if he even does at all. Because right now, I'm imagining that he wouldn't have a chance against Faora. And she has more abilities than just super-speed.

Dude, I knew Faora would show up at some point !

While Supes is stronger (sorry Thor fans, it's just the way it is) and more invulnerable (again, sorry), Thor definitely has a massive edge in fighting skills (he's been kicking ass for hundreds of years). Speed is probably the factor that tips the balance back in Supes favour, but both in the comics and in the movies, he's usually pretty crap at utilising it.
It's almost like he forgets he can move faster than the eye can see, most of the time.

But Faora....different story ! A highly-skilled hand-to-hand fighter, she'd be comparable to Thor, but also much stronger and more invulnerable. What would really make the difference is how effective she is at using her speed. She performs most of her attacks at super-speed, sorry Thor, but
as tough as you are, she'd be hitting faster than you could react to.

Also add in her total ruthlessness, Supes will kill as a last resort, but killing someone is Faora's opening move. Thor would be in serious trouble against Faora (she does a better job of beating up Supes than Zod does).
She is one serious bad-ass. Wearing that kryptonian armour, I don't think
Thor would do well against Faora at all, in fact she'd probably be able to
take on the Avengers, possibly more easily than Superman.

Thor's advantage would be flight, but we can assume if Faora ever got out of the phantom zone, she'd probably work out how to fly pretty quickly, and possibly heat vision too.

But sticking to Superman, I'm on team Clark, but I believe that Thor's skills would be a great leveller. What's more important than speed is timing, in a fight. I've fought guys (no, not in a super-hero context) but in full contact karate matches, who weren't as fast as me, but had better timing. Your attacks just don't have the same impact, and your defences don't work well against somebody who can read your timing -that comes with experience, and in Thor's case, big, big edge (don't know how old he is, but if Asgardians live for thousands of years, as TDW suggests then he's probably 500+ years old).

Also, Thor can be quite creative with his powers. (although when pushed he tends to resort to smashing things with mjolnir), but in Avengers and in Thor, he showed some clever moves using his weather-control, and directed lighting strikes. Ideally, Thor would want to fight as close as possible, to negate the speed/mobility advantage - but even in an open space he could use those weather effects to disorient/distract Supes and get in some good shots.

Mjolnir could certainly deflect heat vision, if it was able to deflect the Destroyer's blasts (which had pretty much the same effect).

The comic book Thor is a bit of a dumbass, but Hemsworth's thor had a more serious and thoughtful side in TDW, which would make him a much better adversary for MOS Superman (comic book Superman, different story, as he's a lot more powerful, Superman Prime for example isn't vulnerable to magic, so he'd squash Thor, he's pretty much taken on the justice league and the Green lantern corps at the same time - but that
makes him kind of boring ! Kind of wish DC would kill him off, there are already enough evil versions of Superman around).

Anyway, Cav-El vs HemsThor, is turning out to be a lot of fun.
Thanks people !

Here's one for the Asgardi-fans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teRMsxMLVkY

While I wouldn't mind having a Budweiser and checking out a Football
game or a few innings of the Royals with Clark (although in MOS he has to do the dishes first), at the same time Thor would probably be more fun to go drinking with (actually for that matter Erik Selvig would be fun to go drinking with ). And with Thor's looks, you'd probably attract a bigger crowd of female fans. So edge there for Thor, too.


Last edited by Batmannerism; 11-03-2013 at 09:18 PM. Reason: stuffed up the youtube link
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Old 11-04-2013, 07:57 AM   #57
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Oh-ho, so it's like that ! Asthma huh ? Well, you admitted in your post, that Thor got KO'ed by an Elf, come on, on the face of it, that's not a very tough look. LOL.
No, I said that he's knocked out by a power that's strong enough to end the universe. Malekith himself didn't do anything towards Thor there.

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so on that note, I thought that Kurse had to be a legitimate threat to Thor (he certainly is in the comics), and that's good, because it makes the story (and thus the movie better).
If you argue that Thor wasn't really in trouble, it diminishes the film.
Of course Thor was in trouble. He didn't have Mjolnir and Kurse is stronger than he is. In the comics he's actually created and then redesigned with the purpose of making him stronger than Thor. It just doesn't change the fact that Thor wasn't knocked out.

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:31 AM   #58
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

Does Thor hit kurse at least once?

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:45 AM   #59
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Depends on what universe they're fighting in. Superman in the Marvel Universe would lose significant advantages. In the DC universe, complete invulnerability is possible. Not so the Marvel Universe. Even major heavyweights like Thor and Hulk can bleed under the right circumstances. Supes would likewise if they fought in the MarvelU. Also, in the MarvelU, Superman couldn't fly. You need some legit reason to be able to do that there. In DC you can do whatever you like.
This isn't about universes, this is about them exactly as they are depicted in their respective movies...fighting each other

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:58 AM   #60
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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on the subject of the Space whales, Iron man took one out by flying thru it, and in terms of power, he's a guy in a suit of armour, so maybe they ain't so tough. The hulk stopping one in flight was pretty impressive.
Iron Man took it out by firing missiles inside of it and blowing it up from the inside, not by flying through it

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Old 11-04-2013, 08:59 AM   #61
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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And yet Loki hurt him with a little dagger. To the point that he had trouble landing a few moments later.

The Hulk punch thing, I am not sure about, mainly because we don't know how strong Hulk was at that moment. The best domestration of Asgardian strength is in a deleted scene from the first movie. Volstagg helping the child retrieve their ball.

Unlike Thor, Superman hasn't had to compete with different writers and script based injuries yet. We will see what happens when Batman shows up. I expect plenty of stupid when that happens.

Thor has always had weak piercing durability, even in comics

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Old 11-04-2013, 09:05 AM   #62
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Old 11-04-2013, 12:47 PM   #63
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Nice ! That's what I was saying about Thor's fighting skills, a leveller - but is it enough to make the difference....you decide.

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Old 11-04-2013, 02:46 PM   #64
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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No, I said that he's knocked out by a power that's strong enough to end the universe. Malekith himself didn't do anything towards Thor there.


Of course Thor was in trouble. He didn't have Mjolnir and Kurse is stronger than he is. In the comics he's actually created and then redesigned with the purpose of making him stronger than Thor. It just doesn't change the fact that Thor wasn't knocked out.
Okay, okay, good points, but allow me to retort:

1) While Thor did stand up to the Aether, obviously Malekith wasn't using it at anywhere near full potency against him (because if he was and Thor
wasn't destroyed by it, then he's more invulnerable than all the 9 realms put together, which would make it ridiculous that Kurse, or Loki's dagger could harm him - not the illusionary dagger injury, but the stab wound Loki gives him in Avengers).

But that's kind of beside the point, my "knocked out by an Elf" comment was just a fair comeback for that Asthma comment, and who was wielding the Aether....umm, Malekith, who's an Elf, sooooo....

and yes, in the comics Kurse was redesigned by Marvel's worst plot device from the 1980's, the Beyonder (probably the most interesting thing the
Beyonder did, after the first Secret Wars, which was very cool).


2) The knock out.

For some reason you seem very concerned with whether Thor got knocked out by Kurse or not. I freely admit, Supes got knocked out by Faora and the the giant (although recovered within seconds, and got up without a scratch). Thor, of course, does get Knocked out later on in the film, just before the Dark Elf spaceship nearly falls on him.

But if we're really concerned about Thor's fight vs Kurse, I've only seen TDW once, and after Kurse knocked Thor down, it looked like Thor wasn't hitting back (unless he was hitting Kurse's fists with his face).

So how much trouble was Thor in ? I don't think we're going to agree on this one, but something to think about.

It kind of looked to me that if Loki hadn't stepped in, Thor might have been killed. Personally, I think this is a good thing, as we want to feel like our heroes aren't just phoning it in, and actually have to work to overcome their problems.

Anyway, how would this relate to a fight against Superman ? If we're still arguing about who's more invulnerable, Kurse threw a boulder and knocked Thor down, (how would he fare if a kryptonian giant threw a train at him ? Could he take a heat seeking missile full on in the face (while experiencing a painful sensory overload) and not have a scratch ?)

As I said earlier, it's pretty hard to argue Thor is either stronger or more resistant to injury than Superman, but there are a bunch of advantages Thor has that would make it a very interesting fight, and one which (despite being on team Clark) could end in a Thor victory, or a draw, although I strongly feel these are the less likely outcomes (which is why I put the draw option on the poll):

- fighting skills, and experience, that's a big edge to Thor (check out the comic clip the
guy posted earlier)

- lightning attacks, probably would hurt Supes (although how much is debatable, as lightning burned Malekith, but didn't kill him).

-mjolnir is definitely going to hurt supes a bit, as it made an impact on the Hulk.


- allies (Thor rarely fights alone, I reckon Lois Lane could take Jane Foster, but would have no chance against Sif, or the other Avengers for that matter) Supes is generally a one-man show. Even with the JL, he often goes off by himself (and usually ends up getting saved by Batman).


Also, there are ways to win a fight, than just overwhelming power. Batman is a master of beating others by not letting them use their
abilities, or working around them - like against a super strong opponent
he might use a weapon (like gas) that doesn't rely on strength.

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Old 11-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #65
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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So what happens if it is one on one, no weapons? Does Thor even have a chance?
Even as a Thor fan I'll admit, MCU Thor doesn't stand as much of a chance without Mjolnir. Although in the first Thor he summoned a tornado without so much as a gesture, it's like he thought it and it happened.

Next time you watch Thor just pay attention to when he summoned that tornado against The Destroyer, all he did was fly into and the tornado formed. Of course he had to spin Mjolnir to increase the speed, but it didn't have to do anything to summon it initially.

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Old 11-04-2013, 11:15 PM   #66
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

Thor's advantages

1. Fighting Skills/Experience - Like you've said Thor's fighting skills and experience far surpass Superman's, plus Thor's strong and invulnerable for it to be a big factor. Even with Supes speed advantage his lack of overall fighting skills would still allow Thor to parry and dodge a few of Supes attacks.

2. Weather Control - Thor's weather control could probably be an even bigger factor than Thor's fighting skills. Thor's lighting is no laughing matter it probably trumps Supes heat vision in overall damage and power output. Besides Thor is very experienced in using it in combat unlike Supes who wasn'tvery efficient in using his heat vision. Aside from lighting Thor has access to other weather abilities such as tornadoes and forming clouds, as seen in Thor 1 he doesn't even need to perform a gesture to summon tornadoes. During the Destroyer fight Thor started forming a tornado right before he flew into the air seeming with his mind, now he does need to use Mjolnir to increase the strength of the winds

3. Mjolnir - With Mjolnir Thor should be able strike as hard as a punch from a Kryptonian, so his blows should atleast be able to send Supes flying and cause him physical pain. So a lightning charge strike fro Mjolnir should be even more damaging than the Kryptonian punches. Not only that but Mjolnir could come into play if Supes manages to over power Thor since it's able to fly on it's own and and it could come up behind Supes knocking him down as Thor gets up and proceed to get the apprehend. In the MCU no one is able to.lift or wield Mjolnir besides Thor or Odin so for the sake of adhering to what we know so far Supes won't be able to. I've heard you say you've think Supes is strong enough to atleast lift it physically and that just doesn't make sense if Avenger Hulk wasn't strong enough to budge why would MOS Supes be able to since he's done nothing to show that he's stronger than Avenger Hulk.

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Last edited by BigThor; 11-05-2013 at 12:52 AM.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:52 AM   #67
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Thor's advantages

1. Fighting Skills/Experience - Like you've said Thor's fighting skills and experience far surpass Superman's, plus Thor's strong and invulnerable for it to be a big factor. Even with Supes speed advantage his lack of overall fighting skills would still allow Thor to parry and dodge a few of Supes attacks.

2. Weather Control - Thor's weather control could probably be an even bigger factor than Thor's fighting skills. Thor's lighting is no laughing matter it probably trumps Supes heat vision in overall damage and power output. Besides Thor is very experienced in using it in combat unlike Supes who wasn'tvery efficient in using his heat vision. Aside from lighting Thor has access to other weather abilities such as tornadoes and forming clouds, as seen in Thor 1 he doesn't even need to perform a gesture to summon tornadoes. During the Destroyer fight Thor started forming a tornado right before he flew into the air seeming with his mind, now he does need to use Mjolnir to increase the strength of the winds

3. Mjolnir - With Mjolnir Thor should be able strike as hard as a punch from a Kryptonian, so his blows should atleast be able to send Supes flying and cause him physical pain. So a lightning charge strike fro Mjolnir should be even more damaging than the Kryptonian punches. Not only that but Mjolnir could come into play if Supes manages to over power Thor since it's able to fly on it's own and and it could come up behind Supes knocking him down as Thor gets up and proceed to get the apprehend. In the MCU no one is able to.lift or wield Mjolnir besides Thor or Odin so for the sake of adhering to what we know so far Supes won't be able to. I've heard you say you've think Supes is strong enough to atleast lift it physically and that just doesn't make sense if Avenger Hulk wasn't strong enough to budge why would MOS Supes be able to since he's done nothing to show that he's stronger than Avenger Hulk.

1) I will concede that Thor's fighting skills would make up for Supes' speed (especially as he's terrible at using it). We certainly differ on how big the difference is in the characters' strength and invulnerability. I still believe that Superman is significantly stronger and tougher than Thor (although if Thor throws a train, or gets hit by one and isn't even scratched I'll change my mind). On that note, I still think Supes is stronger than the Hulk (although perhaps not as strong as Hulk's pants, because nothing can destroy them). You're not going to like this, but I base this on how Hulk fared against Thor (the only super-strong opponent we see in the film). Hulk was clearly stronger than Thor, so even if Supes were the same strength as the Hulk, that would still make him stronger than Thor.



2) Weather control: Probably not as big an advantage as you might think.
Given that in MOS Supes was able to fly up, against a gravity beam, and away from a collapsing black hole - winds, even tornado strength are pretty much nothing compared to that, so I can't see them giving him too much trouble.

We still disagree on the heat vision thing. I'm going with the dude who posted that Supes' heat vision (to liquefy steel instantly) would be comparable to a nuclear blast. Sorry, Thor's lightning doesn't even come close to that, powerful though it is - also, consider it might have brought down the space whale's by shorting out their power systems. It certainly didn't liquefy them. The other thing, is that Supes is much better at using his heat vision than Zod was (having had a lot more practice) he's shown a lot of control and skill with it (in MOS).

Given what I saw in MOS a concentrated blast of heat vision would do a lot more damage to Thor than a bolt of lightning would to Supes. Having said that, Thor could probably block heat vision with Mjolnir.


3) Mjolnir: This would be the great leveller in terms of punching power, I'm not so sure Thor's punches would hurt Supes by themselves, but Mjolnir probably would - but having said that, it didn't KO the Hulk either.

Still, not sure this would be enough. However, I had a look at JLA/Avengers, and I will concede (because I admit it when I'm wrong), while Superman could lift Mjolnir, while the spell on it allowed him to,
afterwards he couldn't. It would depend on how you interpret worthy,
some people suggest Supes in the comics isn't worthy as he doesn't kill his enemies, and Mjolnir is meant to kill giants (actually I think Walt Simonson said that, and who am I to argue with him). Of course MOS supes, does KILL his enemies when he has no other choice, so I'd say there's a 50/50 chance he could lift it - but no way he could access it's powers.

Out of interest, which poll option did you click ? I'm guessing it's one of the Thor wins ones, but was it Thor hammers Supes into oblivion or Thor wins barely.

I picked Supes wins barely - probably influenced by JLA/Avengers, where Supes does defeat Thor, but only just (and then all the Marvel superheroes in the world attack him at once in retaliation). I like to think that I have been somewhat balanced, in that I admit all of Thor's advantages, but at the end of the day, I still believe Supes would be too much for him.

Although we fundamentally disagree on a few things, I have enjoyed your arguments on Thor's behalf. I don't think either of us is going to change our minds, but that's not what this thread is about. Thanks for all your posts .

BTW here's some stuff from JLA/Avengers
(although for me and the rest of the Supes fans, it takes Hercules, Wonderman, she-hulk, vision and Iron man all at once to keep him down,
after he's just fought and taken out Thor. So, even if you feel bad that Thor lost, you should feel vindicated that all of Thor's buddies kick the **** out of Supes to make up for it. See what I mean about Thor not fighting alone !

And also, when it's all over, they all end up friends.









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Old 11-05-2013, 04:08 AM   #68
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

Okay, this is just me being cheeky, as Hemsthor is nowhere near
that dumb, and Cav-El frowns a bit more.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO-uN-EyEjM


Well there's an inspiration for the Asgardi-fans to get out there
and make a video with the opposite result.

Looking forward to MOS superman's next appearance as it might
give us a clearer idea of his level of power, but ultimately I doubt this
debate is going to be resolved any time soon.

Maybe it's for the best the two characters stay in their own universes,
as one universe wouldn't be big enough for the both of them.


Anyway, It's been fun !

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Old 11-05-2013, 04:49 AM   #69
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

Yes I agree that MOS Supes is stronger than Thor, but he's not stronger than TA's Hulk. Name was clear stronger than Supes and even he seemed Hulk level at the most, they both attacked jets very similarly. However Namek's goal was to kill while Hulk's obviously wasn't, plus their leaping ability was about the same as well. But that's not even my main concern, point blank Hulk stopping that deviation with one punch and virtually little to no struggle, MOS Supes struggled with less. Now I will agree that MOS Supes is closer to Hulk's strength than Thor he's still not as strong as the big guy (pretty close though).

Is the collapsing black hole you're referring when Supes caught Lois Lane after sending those Kryptonian into another dimension? If so that isn't much of feat considering a falling Lois Lane wasn't eve. bother by that portal's gravitational pull. And yes Supes resisted the gravity beam but he didn't do so easily and struggled greatly to do so. So he wouldn't be as resilient against Thor's weather powers as you think. Yes Supes heat vision is quite hot, but Thor's lighting has caused more wide scale destruction and operates on a much wider scale than Supes heat vision. Thor's lighting didn't short circuit those space whales that's absurd, it clearly pierced through their bodies causing them to explode due to the power of the blast.

Thor's blow with Mjolnir didn't knocked Hulk out just like Hulk's punch didn't knock Thor out, but it did clearly daze him. So multiple blows like that would've put Hulk to sleep no doubt, not to mention the fact that it wasn't even light charged at the time. Also Thor's fist caused Hulk to spin around 360 degrees and grunt upon impact so I'm sure they can be as effective to a much smaller/lighter Supes. Of course they won't hurt Supes very much, he'll definitely feel pain from them. That's beside the point though because Mjolnir would definitely hurt him and lightning infused strike could KONG him similar to what Namek did to him.

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Spider-Man - It's the end of the world, I'M FREAKING OUT...why aren't you freaking out?
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:37 AM   #70
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Okay, okay, good points, but allow me to retort:

1) While Thor did stand up to the Aether, obviously Malekith wasn't using it at anywhere near full potency against him (because if he was and Thor
wasn't destroyed by it, then he's more invulnerable than all the 9 realms put together, which would make it ridiculous that Kurse, or Loki's dagger could harm him - not the illusionary dagger injury, but the stab wound Loki gives him in Avengers).

But that's kind of beside the point, my "knocked out by an Elf" comment was just a fair comeback for that Asthma comment, and who was wielding the Aether....umm, Malekith, who's an Elf, sooooo....

and yes, in the comics Kurse was redesigned by Marvel's worst plot device from the 1980's, the Beyonder (probably the most interesting thing the
Beyonder did, after the first Secret Wars, which was very cool).


2) The knock out.

For some reason you seem very concerned with whether Thor got knocked out by Kurse or not. I freely admit, Supes got knocked out by Faora and the the giant (although recovered within seconds, and got up without a scratch). Thor, of course, does get Knocked out later on in the film, just before the Dark Elf spaceship nearly falls on him.

But if we're really concerned about Thor's fight vs Kurse, I've only seen TDW once, and after Kurse knocked Thor down, it looked like Thor wasn't hitting back (unless he was hitting Kurse's fists with his face).

So how much trouble was Thor in ? I don't think we're going to agree on this one, but something to think about.

It kind of looked to me that if Loki hadn't stepped in, Thor might have been killed. Personally, I think this is a good thing, as we want to feel like our heroes aren't just phoning it in, and actually have to work to overcome their problems.

Anyway, how would this relate to a fight against Superman ? If we're still arguing about who's more invulnerable, Kurse threw a boulder and knocked Thor down, (how would he fare if a kryptonian giant threw a train at him ? Could he take a heat seeking missile full on in the face (while experiencing a painful sensory overload) and not have a scratch ?)

As I said earlier, it's pretty hard to argue Thor is either stronger or more resistant to injury than Superman, but there are a bunch of advantages Thor has that would make it a very interesting fight, and one which (despite being on team Clark) could end in a Thor victory, or a draw, although I strongly feel these are the less likely outcomes (which is why I put the draw option on the poll):

- fighting skills, and experience, that's a big edge to Thor (check out the comic clip the
guy posted earlier)

- lightning attacks, probably would hurt Supes (although how much is debatable, as lightning burned Malekith, but didn't kill him).

-mjolnir is definitely going to hurt supes a bit, as it made an impact on the Hulk.


- allies (Thor rarely fights alone, I reckon Lois Lane could take Jane Foster, but would have no chance against Sif, or the other Avengers for that matter) Supes is generally a one-man show. Even with the JL, he often goes off by himself (and usually ends up getting saved by Batman).


Also, there are ways to win a fight, than just overwhelming power. Batman is a master of beating others by not letting them use their
abilities, or working around them - like against a super strong opponent
he might use a weapon (like gas) that doesn't rely on strength.
If it hasn't been clear I can inform you that I'm not being overly serious with my posts.

Of course he doesn't get attacked by a power level that could destroy the universe. What I said was that it wasn't Malekith's doing, the effect was caused by Thor himself.

As for elves, the general fantasy trope is that old things are strong. The Dark Elves predate the universe so they are looking pretty good.

I'm not concerned about it, I'm just pointing out that you were wrong. He's shown several times in the fight and is always awake, although a bit groggy at times. And of course he was in great danger, Kurse is stronger than Hulk and is laying down a beating. I'm just saying that we still don't know the outcome as Thor is normally pretty good at rising to the occasion when things get dark.

To be more serious about who would win, I don't really know but Thor has probably been depowered a bit more in his movies than Supes was.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:19 PM   #71
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

The problem is that in TA whedon never displayed thor in the strenght department. It is as if we got the hulk to fill in for super-strenght and thor is there for tossing lighting and if you know your thor history, thor is on superman level in strenght. I never understood why they dont show off thors physical might (i mean he is called THE MIGHTY THOR) I have to be honest, as thor stands right now in the whedon movie, he cant beat the mos superman we have seen to this point.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:24 PM   #72
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

Strength isn't the only factor in a fight and you can't expect MS to depict Thor being as strong as Hulk. If they did that, it would render Hulk useless, you guys have to look at the big picture and peel your fan goggles back a bit.

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Spider-Man - It's the end of the world, I'M FREAKING OUT...why aren't you freaking out?
Captain America - Because I can hear it.
Spider-Man - Hear what?
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:26 PM   #73
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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Yes I agree that MOS Supes is stronger than Thor, but he's not stronger than TA's Hulk. Name was clear stronger than Supes and even he seemed Hulk level at the most, they both attacked jets very similarly. However Namek's goal was to kill while Hulk's obviously wasn't, plus their leaping ability was about the same as well. But that's not even my main concern, point blank Hulk stopping that deviation with one punch and virtually little to no struggle, MOS Supes struggled with less. Now I will agree that MOS Supes is closer to Hulk's strength than Thor he's still not as strong as the big guy (pretty close though).

Is the collapsing black hole you're referring when Supes caught Lois Lane after sending those Kryptonian into another dimension? If so that isn't much of feat considering a falling Lois Lane wasn't eve. bother by that portal's gravitational pull. And yes Supes resisted the gravity beam but he didn't do so easily and struggled greatly to do so. So he wouldn't be as resilient against Thor's weather powers as you think. Yes Supes heat vision is quite hot, but Thor's lighting has caused more wide scale destruction and operates on a much wider scale than Supes heat vision. Thor's lighting didn't short circuit those space whales that's absurd, it clearly pierced through their bodies causing them to explode due to the power of the blast.

Thor's blow with Mjolnir didn't knocked Hulk out just like Hulk's punch didn't knock Thor out, but it did clearly daze him. So multiple blows like that would've put Hulk to sleep no doubt, not to mention the fact that it wasn't even light charged at the time. Also Thor's fist caused Hulk to spin around 360 degrees and grunt upon impact so I'm sure they can be as effective to a much smaller/lighter Supes. Of course they won't hurt Supes very much, he'll definitely feel pain from them. That's beside the point though because Mjolnir would definitely hurt him and lightning infused strike could KONG him similar to what Namek did to him.

Clearly we are not going to agree on this, but that's cool.


1) Having watched the smalliville battle a few times, I'd have to say that Supes was probably as strong as Nam Ek, given that they trade punches and Supes is actually knocking the bigger guy back, before picking him up and punching him into the train yard, which takes him about a minute to recover from.

I still dispute who's stronger, the Hulk or Superman, as with the oil rig, it wasn't Superman who gave out, but the metal beams he was standing on.
(coincidentally, in the comics Superman has defeated the Hulk, twice)
However, given the Hulk's impressive feats in TA, I would say that the Hulk would be close to MOS Superman.

Again, we're not going to agree on this, but that's cool.



2) I will concede that Thor's lightning is more widespread than heat vision, and could cause more widespread destruction, but without Mjolnir to block it I suspect heat vision would fry Thor.

I agree that lightning would hurt Supes, but would it be enough to stop him ? I don't think so. A lightning infused strike from Mjolnir, maybe could stun supes, but then Thor would have to land that strike.



3) I think you overestimate Thor's invulnerability. We don't see him take anywhere near the punishment Supes takes, and walk away unharmed.

And Supes does much better against opponents who are nearly as strong as him (Zod and Nam EK) than Thor does - the Hulk swats him around and Kurse nearly kills him.
(Faora smacks Supes around, but that's due to her skill and speed, and then he tags her back).



- I take your point about the singularity, and actually it's sloppy film-making that while everything else is being pulled in, Lois is falling, it's a glaring hole -although once Supes catches her, they start getting pulled in. But come on dude, if you're comparing tornado strength winds to a black hole's pull, really one is clearly stronger than the other.

On that note, since Supes breaks the sound barrier numerous times, (in fact he makes it to India from North America in about 2 minutes, which would is covering 7,643 miles in that time. Given that he has to leave the atmosphere to gain the necessary speed, we can assume that
wind/air resistance isn't much of an issue for him. As such, I can't see the tornado being much of a problem, considering Supes can move so much faster.

Thor's lighting infused mjolnir strike is definitely the best chance Thor has.

Like I said in the beginning, I do think that TDW Thor could defeat MOS Superman, in the right circumstances, but that it's less likely than Supes coming out on top.

Cheers.

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Old 11-05-2013, 11:22 PM   #74
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

You need to watch The Smallville fight again, Namek was clearly Supes superior in strength and yes Supes blows did staggered him. But what is that suppose to mean, Namek physically over powered Sues and slammed him around 80% of the fight. Supes only advantage against Name was flight and heat vision, Supes flight is the reason he was able to lift Name into the air and punch him away. It had nothing to do with him who was stronger.

You bring up the fact that Supes was able to hold his own against guys in his league, but Thor did just as good against Hulk who is clearly his superior. No Hulk didn't sling Thor around the whole fight, he only slammed Thor once and threw him once at the end of the fight. Most of the fight consisted of Thor out maneuvering Hulk, blocking his attacks, and striking Hulk (3 times) more often than Hulk struck him (once). Kurse is clearly much stronger than Thor and from what I hear he's even stronger than Hulk, so Supes fighting beings in his strength range is not the same as Thor fighting guys a good deal stronger than himself.

No one said Tornadoes you're putting words in my mouth and ignoring the context of my statement. I merely stated that the portals pull couldn't be too strong since Lois Lane fell right in front of it and didn't get pulled. Also that wasn't a black hole it was a portal to the phantom zone.

Yes I do think Thor can land strikes with his hammer since Supes has practically zero fighting skills and doesn't make the best use of his super speed. Also yes Thor can take punches from Supes as he took one from Hulk and actually smiled afterwards. Stop saying Kurse nearly killed when clearly that didn'thappen, since when does receiving a few scratches constitute as almost dying.

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Spider-Man - It's the end of the world, I'M FREAKING OUT...why aren't you freaking out?
Captain America - Because I can hear it.
Spider-Man - Hear what?
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Old 11-06-2013, 02:40 AM   #75
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Default Re: Thor (from TDW) vs Superman (from MOS) who wins in a fight, and why ?

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You need to watch The Smallville fight again, Namek was clearly Supes superior in strength and yes Supes blows did staggered him. But what is that suppose to mean, Namek physically over powered Sues and slammed him around 80% of the fight. Supes only advantage against Name was flight and heat vision, Supes flight is the reason he was able to lift Name into the air and punch him away. It had nothing to do with him who was stronger.

You bring up the fact that Supes was able to hold his own against guys in his league, but Thor did just as good against Hulk who is clearly his superior. No Hulk didn't sling Thor around the whole fight, he only slammed Thor once and threw him once at the end of the fight. Most of the fight consisted of Thor out maneuvering Hulk, blocking his attacks, and striking Hulk (3 times) more often than Hulk struck him (once). Kurse is clearly much stronger than Thor and from what I hear he's even stronger than Hulk, so Supes fighting beings in his strength range is not the same as Thor fighting guys a good deal stronger than himself.

No one said Tornadoes you're putting words in my mouth and ignoring the context of my statement. I merely stated that the portals pull couldn't be too strong since Lois Lane fell right in front of it and didn't get pulled. Also that wasn't a black hole it was a portal to the phantom zone.

Yes I do think Thor can land strikes with his hammer since Supes has practically zero fighting skills and doesn't make the best use of his super speed. Also yes Thor can take punches from Supes as he took one from Hulk and actually smiled afterwards. Stop saying Kurse nearly killed when clearly that didn'thappen, since when does receiving a few scratches constitute as almost dying.


Smallville fight: Dude, when I'm wrong, I admit it. And I think you're getting a bit serious here, but anyway, here we go. If you want to go to the tape and look at footage, that's fine.

I'm watching the Smallville fight right now. If you want to get technical, Nam Ek slams supes at 1;34:14, and boots him in the head (you reckon Thor could take the slam and a kick in the head from the Hulk ? if by your own argument Nam Ek is that strong ?) anyway at 1:34:30 he gets flipped over and is waking up, so he's out for around 15-16 seconds. Next Nam ek and Faora both attack him, he slams Faora into the ground, avoids Nam ek's stomp, gets grabbed as he tries to fly away. (btw, when does Thor take on 2 beings of similar power to himself, at the same time.......) Anyway, the fight continues. Both of them hold him down, he blasts them with heat vision, and then gets up. Not a scratch, and he's been slammed through pavement several times.
The army opens fire, Supes bounces some cannon fire off his forehead, then saves the falling pilot gets blind-sided and is out of shot while Faora wipes out the US Army.
0h-ho, Supes is back up and Trading blows with Nam Ek again for 2 seconds.
then cut to Faora smirking at col. Hardy.
Okay back to Supes, 1:36;48 knocks Nam Ek back, punches him 4-5 times each time knocking him back, flies him up in the air and punches him into the train yard. (1:36:55) at 1:37:15 Supes slams Faora into the ground, to save Col Hardy. at 1:37:41 the train comes flying into view (btw, how do you think Thor would do being hit by a train, thrown by the Hulk, if you like ?) at 1:38:40 Supes steps out from where the train hit him, not a scratch.

So there you have it, that's what actually happened. Supes gets smacked around a lot, but doesn't lie there and get beat on, no, he gets up and gives it back -to two opponents with similar powers.

However, he was still in trouble, fighting two of them at once. Who knows,
without the Army acting as a distraction, they might have gotten the better of him, he might have even been in as much trouble as Thor fighting Kurse.

On that note....

Now to Thor vs Kurse.... and your assertion that Thor was not in mortal danger from Kurse.....What was Thor's plan, to bash Kurse's fists with his face until they got sore, or lie there getting beaten on until Kurse got bored and left? Dude, if you don't accept that Thor was screwed, then Loki stepped in for nothing. I'm sure I'll see TDW again, and if you're right. That Thor wasn't in any danger there, or just got a few scratches, I'll happily admit it.

However, I think it makes the story better if he is in danger, without risk there's no tension. In fact, you would have a valid argument that Thor is the superior character because he has to struggle more, against greater odds.

I did some google searches with "Loki saves Thor" and similar search strings.
Apparently some other people out there think that perhaps Thor was in a spot of bother, the word "saves" shows up a lot, as opposed to the words "Thor was just taking it easy, lulling Kurse into a false sense of security, could have gotten up at any time, no problem, and then Loki stepped in."

So saying that Kurse nearly killed Thor...well actually I think he did, and in doing so made the movie better. Just think about that from a story point of view.

You are completely right that Kurse is stronger than Thor, so is Thor fighting someone stronger than himself -which doesn't seem to end too well for him.

While we're on the subject of thor fighting somebody stronger than him......

Hulk vs Thor,


I dug out the Avengers and watched that Thor v Hulk clip (it takes 2 arms to block the Hulk's strike), you are correct about that king-hit with Mjolnir, but the Hulk gets up and starts throwing stuff. After the Hulk punches Thor, he gets a nosebleed, yes he smiles after this. Then he throws Mjolnir, which hulk catches, and can't lift. Then Thor jumps on Hulk's back and tries to choke him. They keep fighting and that fight ends with the Hulk throwing Thor around like a rag-doll (not smiling now) and ends when Hulk attacks the jet (after it distracts him with some cannon fire)

Btw if Thor's so invulnerable, why does he throw himself on the ground out of the line of fire? Superman, and both Kryptonians get him by jet cannon fire , helicopter cannon fire and missiles, but don't bleed.

On the fighting skills front, Hulk doesn't have any fighting skills, just raw brutal power, (and no super speed, flight or heat vision). Yet Hulk doesn't seem to struggle that much against Thor, Thor gets in one good hit, but otherwise he's pretty much on the defensive.

So your statement that Thor did just as well against Hulk, who is clearly superior, doesn't seem to stack up. Have a look at 2:45 of this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e0kli1Rph8

So how did these fights end ?

Thor vs Kurse = lying on the ground getting bashed
Thor v Hulk = slammed into the ground, chucked around like a rag doll.

We're definitely not going to agree on who's stronger, Kurse, Hulk or Superman, so not much point bringing that up.

Anyway, after seeing these clips, I actually think MOS Superman would have an even better chance of beating Thor.

I'm not saying that Thor couldn't defeat Superman, (still talking about the movie characters here, because the comic books answer that question definitively on who'd win, and we know who that is). However, having watched the tale of the tape, I think it's pretty unlikely.

Anyway, this doesn't diminish Thor as an enjoyable character and a great superhero. I'm guessing by your nickname, you're a huge Thor fan,
If it makes you feel better, neither Thor, nor Superman could defeat Galactus, or the 52 version of Darkseid (although maybe if they teamed up they could).

Anyway, it's been fun arguing with you about this, I suspect you'll have some
good come-backs for the stuff I've said, but I seriously doubt either one of
us is going to convince the other.

The truth is, that they probably wouldn't end up fighting on screen, and if they did, it would probably be a draw, after which they'd have a beer,
and maybe watch a football game.

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