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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Goyer writing the script for the first Superman Batman film
His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT. 27 20.45%
His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical. 30 22.73%
His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread. 32 24.24%
He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script 43 32.58%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-30-2013, 09:32 PM   #51
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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He doesn't automatically stop saving people. He eventually loses his will to do so (some kind of depression) because the giant hole left by not knowing his alien heritage which he desperately longs for is starting to take it's tole on him as a man (basic identity crisis) because he lacks that closure. This would lead to him having thoughts of wanting to forget that side of him all together because it makes him feel as if though he was a mistake, unwanted, neglected etc. due to no follow up by his parents/people and progress in uncovering the reason he was sent to earth. He wants to disappear into the Clark Kent persona (glasses, hair, clumsiness etc...... In this case he wouldn't use his real name and would fake an identity seeing he didn't plan to stay their forever....second paragraph addresses why) which at first he basically viewed as a temporary act to fit in among humans to aid in uncovering the truth about himself with little suspicion. With this premise you can at least kinda buy into him not being recognized because he could make a conscious effort to conceal his identity when being heroic (shades,hat,shirt tied around his head etc.) because he has to keep up with appearances. Also the reason he won't openly expose himself to the world would not be because Pa Kent felt that the world wasn't ready, but because Clark himself is reluctant due to being unsure of who he's supposed to be as an individual. This way it could have have been a more self centered choice after his breakthrough (made possible by Lois and not magical coincidence) to reveal himself and no longer hold back the hero in him other than being forced out by Zod. This way the heroic side of him is truly preserved and is only affected and conflicted due to him (the man) longing for a true identity and not knowing who he was. Wouldn't this make the story more focused on the character who should be the driving force of the story?

With regards to how he would regain continue to work at DP after revealing himself is another story. I really don't know how the glasses could ever realistically translate to a grounded universe which is why the identity crisis angle would be a little more plausible. Before revealing himself, Clark was struggling with his identity so he wouldn't even use his real name (Clark) before this and would go to great ends to preserve his natural appearance. Maybe this is where a fake beard, mustache and fake tan would come in handy as well as maybe using heat vision and an iron comb to flatten and straighten his hair while walking differently etc. Desperate times call for desperate measures. This would give him a totally different look. When he finally isn't unsure of who he is anymore and gets a new job at DP post crisis, all the theatrics are in the past and he can now be the real Clark Kent with the name. This would show his progression as a character and be symbolic of his new found sense of self, purpose and confidence. The other question now is why risk it and go back to DP which my answer is....because of Lois Lane along with basically the same reason offered at the end of MOS.
No. I have no idea if you're being serious. But I am. Just...no.

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Old 10-31-2013, 05:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

So, I think by now it's pretty well known 'round these parts that I didn't like Man of Steel on a basic "not being a well made movie" level, and I don't have high hopes for the sequel.

However

There is something that wasn't in Man of Steel that I missed mostly from the standpoint of a fan that, wether the sequel is good or not, I really hope Goyer includes in the film. That being more of a focus on journalism. The journalism aspect of the Superman mythos tends to get ignored most often out of everything. I mean, yes, it's always there, in the background, but it's very rare that it be treated as something relevant to the plot or themes of the story. Clark Kent is a reporter pretty much because he always has been. I think, however, that journalism is a very vital and valuable part of the mythos. It emphasizes the themes of personal and social responsibility and taking a wider view of the world's problems without losing the human perspective. It creates a means by which Clark Kent fights to make the world a better place as an ordinary human being in addition to Superman being a superhero, which says a lot about the character both in terms of his morals and in terms of what he wants out of life and how his desires are torn between wanting to embrace his alien heritage and wanting to embrace his human heritage. It's a means of drawing character parallels and contrasts between Clark and Lois, how they're both doing everything they can to fight for their ideals and how Clark is fundamentally an idealist who masks a great burden while Lois is a cynic who masks that deep down she's still idealistic. And, ultimately, it explains pretty eloquently what Superman is all about:

The most powerful being on Earth fights to save the world not by ruling it, but by speaking truth to power.

It's why Superman is both a symbol of what we should strive for and a fertile ground of engaging characterization.

The journalism didn't feel like it had that kind of significance in Man of Steel, and that, more than anything, if what I'd like to see. Even if the rest of the movie is terrible, if they make the fact that Clark Kent is a reporter for a major metropolitan newspaper actually matter, I will be very happy.

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Old 10-31-2013, 05:55 PM   #53
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

While I disagree with you about MOS not being good/well-made, etc., I agree about the journalism thing.

It's an aspect of the Superman story that's never really been explored in live action. I'd love to see Clark actually being a reporter for once and having a passion for it. It's something that's never been done and would be fascinating, I think. I'd like to see a movie that explores both Superman's cosmic experiences and Clark Kent's life on Earth. It would also be a good way of showing Lois in action too, and they could work together.

But I don't have high hopes for this now that Batman is included, as there might not be time for both.

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Old 10-31-2013, 06:09 PM   #54
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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So, I think by now it's pretty well known 'round these parts that I didn't like Man of Steel on a basic "not being a well made movie" level, and I don't have high hopes for the sequel.

However

There is something that wasn't in Man of Steel that I missed mostly from the standpoint of a fan that, wether the sequel is good or not, I really hope Goyer includes in the film. That being more of a focus on journalism. The journalism aspect of the Superman mythos tends to get ignored most often out of everything. I mean, yes, it's always there, in the background, but it's very rare that it be treated as something relevant to the plot or themes of the story. Clark Kent is a reporter pretty much because he always has been. I think, however, that journalism is a very vital and valuable part of the mythos. It emphasizes the themes of personal and social responsibility and taking a wider view of the world's problems without losing the human perspective. It creates a means by which Clark Kent fights to make the world a better place as an ordinary human being in addition to Superman being a superhero, which says a lot about the character both in terms of his morals and in terms of what he wants out of life and how his desires are torn between wanting to embrace his alien heritage and wanting to embrace his human heritage. It's a means of drawing character parallels and contrasts between Clark and Lois, how they're both doing everything they can to fight for their ideals and how Clark is fundamentally an idealist who masks a great burden while Lois is a cynic who masks that deep down she's still idealistic. And, ultimately, it explains pretty eloquently what Superman is all about:

The most powerful being on Earth fights to save the world not by ruling it, but by speaking truth to power.

It's why Superman is both a symbol of what we should strive for and a fertile ground of engaging characterization.

The journalism didn't feel like it had that kind of significance in Man of Steel, and that, more than anything, if what I'd like to see. Even if the rest of the movie is terrible, if they make the fact that Clark Kent is a reporter for a major metropolitan newspaper actually matter, I will be very happy.
Yeah I completely agree about the journalism thing. It's why I dreamt of inter gang being the villain in the sequel. I thought the movie could start with Bruno Manheim (played by David Duchovny) meeting Superman and telling him "you lay a finger on me, and my people will blow up a building in Metropolis", Superman then cannot beat Intergang the classical way (of just punching like a lunatic like in the the Justice League Animated Series or in MoS), but instead he and Lois have to investigate together, and close in on inter gang one piece of evidence at a time. The movie could possibly end with Superman needing Lex's help to take down inter gang.

I figured a good scene would be Superman going to meet Lex to ask for his help, Lex saying he doesn't need help, then Superman x-rays him and shows him that inter gang has bugged his suit, and Lex looks horrified. The movie could end with both Superman and Lex receiving medals as great protectors of Metropolis, and there's a big ceremony for them.


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Old 10-31-2013, 10:49 PM   #55
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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While I disagree with you about MOS not being good/well-made, etc., I agree about the journalism thing.

It's an aspect of the Superman story that's never really been explored in live action.
On film perhaps. LOIS AND CLARK nailed it.

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Old 10-31-2013, 11:22 PM   #56
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

ya, it will be good to see Clark enjoy writing. but story comes first.

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Old 10-31-2013, 11:44 PM   #57
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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ya, it will be good to see Clark enjoy writing. but story comes first.
How is that separate from story?

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Old 11-01-2013, 12:41 AM   #58
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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ya, it will be good to see Clark enjoy writing. but story comes first.
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How is that separate from story?
Well...

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There is something that wasn't in Man of Steel that I missed mostly from the standpoint of a fan that, wether the sequel is good or not, I really hope Goyer includes in the film. That being more of a focus on journalism.
I'm pretty sure he's saying that if the film ends up being great, but journalism has to take a backseat to the core story, then a huge focus on it isn't needed. We got a great film.

As opposed to us getting a nice little nod to journalism, but having another polarizing Superman film that half the fans incessantly hate on because of Goyer's writing.

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Old 11-01-2013, 01:04 PM   #59
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

See, I feel like we actually got more focus on journalism (via Lois, in this case) and the process and the implications of it in MAN OF STEEL than we've ever seen in a Superman film. SUPERMAN RETURNS is a close second.

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Old 11-01-2013, 01:06 PM   #60
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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See, I feel like we actually got more focus on journalism (via Lois, in this case) and the process and the implications of it in MAN OF STEEL than we've ever seen in a Superman film. SUPERMAN RETURNS is a close second.
Yeah she was actually investigating something other than Superman's dick for once -- at least at the start

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Old 11-03-2013, 11:03 AM   #61
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

^^Lol! But I think it was her end goal right from the start.

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Old 11-06-2013, 04:46 PM   #62
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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On film perhaps. LOIS AND CLARK nailed it.
Yeah. Dean Cain's Clark had a real passion for journalism. He even beat Lois a few times from getting a big journalism award.

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Old 11-06-2013, 05:37 PM   #63
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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So, I think by now it's pretty well known 'round these parts that I didn't like Man of Steel on a basic "not being a well made movie" level, and I don't have high hopes for the sequel.

However

There is something that wasn't in Man of Steel that I missed mostly from the standpoint of a fan that, wether the sequel is good or not, I really hope Goyer includes in the film. That being more of a focus on journalism. The journalism aspect of the Superman mythos tends to get ignored most often out of everything. I mean, yes, it's always there, in the background, but it's very rare that it be treated as something relevant to the plot or themes of the story. Clark Kent is a reporter pretty much because he always has been. I think, however, that journalism is a very vital and valuable part of the mythos. It emphasizes the themes of personal and social responsibility and taking a wider view of the world's problems without losing the human perspective. It creates a means by which Clark Kent fights to make the world a better place as an ordinary human being in addition to Superman being a superhero, which says a lot about the character both in terms of his morals and in terms of what he wants out of life and how his desires are torn between wanting to embrace his alien heritage and wanting to embrace his human heritage. It's a means of drawing character parallels and contrasts between Clark and Lois, how they're both doing everything they can to fight for their ideals and how Clark is fundamentally an idealist who masks a great burden while Lois is a cynic who masks that deep down she's still idealistic. And, ultimately, it explains pretty eloquently what Superman is all about:

The most powerful being on Earth fights to save the world not by ruling it, but by speaking truth to power.

It's why Superman is both a symbol of what we should strive for and a fertile ground of engaging characterization.

The journalism didn't feel like it had that kind of significance in Man of Steel, and that, more than anything, if what I'd like to see. Even if the rest of the movie is terrible, if they make the fact that Clark Kent is a reporter for a major metropolitan newspaper actually matter, I will be very happy.
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It's an aspect of the Superman story that's never really been explored in live action. I'd love to see Clark actually being a reporter for once and having a passion for it. It's something that's never been done and would be fascinating, I think. I'd like to see a movie that explores both Superman's cosmic experiences and Clark Kent's life on Earth. It would also be a good way of showing Lois in action too, and they could work together.
Yes and yes.

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Old 11-08-2013, 08:45 AM   #64
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Just as I think Nolan gave us the perfect template for a superhero origin movie, Raimi gave us the perfect template for a superhero sequel a year earlier. Avoiding the BB approach for MOS structure was Snyder/Goyers first misstep. Just borrow the pacing, emotional depth, and use of supporting characters from SM2 (and the struggle to balance superhero life and personal life, which has been shown in Superman II, SM2, The Incredibles, and TASM) and build the narrative around the characters and environment this time around.

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Old 11-09-2013, 01:23 PM   #65
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

So Snyder figures a scant 5,000 people died during the Man Of Steel climax.

Umm... is he high or something?

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Old 11-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #66
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

It's his movie…if he says 5,000 people died then 5,000 people died.

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Old 11-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #67
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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So Snyder figures a scant 5,000 people died during the Man Of Steel climax.

Umm... is he high or something?
I know right? It's like he completely missed out on the first 15mins of the film.

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Old 11-09-2013, 02:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Indeed. What would Snyder know, he's only the director.

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:28 PM   #69
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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So Snyder figures a scant 5,000 people died during the Man Of Steel climax.

Umm... is he high or something?
5,000 deaths gives the movie a mythological feel :-)

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:32 PM   #70
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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5,000 deaths gives the movie a mythological feel :-)
is that a question or statement?

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:35 PM   #71
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Indeed. What would Snyder know, he's only the director.
It could be retroactive ******** as a psychological defense mechanism to all the criticism. People do that all the time.

He also might not understand the urban environment.

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:41 PM   #72
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

^^^ It could be. Or it could be his movie and he knows. I'm sure some people left the buildings when they saw the initial blast. I think Perry White said something like "Ok, we're leaving." It's fake damage after all. So whatever he says it was, it was.

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:43 PM   #73
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

A hostile alien space ship floating above a city will no dout have an effect on the tuesday urban environment.

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:47 PM   #74
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Five thousand people dying is literally impossible. There is almost zero logic to such a statement. There was no large-scale evacuation from the city leading up to the attack. The world engine came down and almost immediately went to work on a completely populated city.

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Old 11-09-2013, 04:48 PM   #75
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

This is just a random observation, but I don't think I've ever heard of people debating/speculating about fake damage quite as much as I've seen for this movie. It really did get people all riled up. I think Snyder did create a mythological event, lol.

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