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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Goyer writing the script for the first Superman Batman film
His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT. 27 20.45%
His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical. 30 22.73%
His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread. 32 24.24%
He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script 43 32.58%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-09-2013, 05:58 PM   #76
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Five thousand people dying is literally impossible. There is almost zero logic to such a statement. There was no large-scale evacuation from the city leading up to the attack. The world engine came down and almost immediately went to work on a completely populated city.
Just curious, what your figure is on the death count in avengers and TDKR?

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:01 PM   #77
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Just curious, what your figure is on the death count in avengers and TDKR?
The former, tens of thousands.

TDKR? Couple thousand, at most.

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:29 PM   #78
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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The former, tens of thousands.

TDKR? Couple thousand, at most.
As I figured.

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:45 PM   #79
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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So Snyder figures a scant 5,000 people died during the Man Of Steel climax.

Umm... is he high or something?
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Indeed. What would Snyder know, he's only the director.
Both of these posts made me smile.

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This is just a random observation, but I don't think I've ever heard of people debating/speculating about fake damage quite as much as I've seen for this movie.
I didn't watch the event, but I'm pretty sure Snyder pulled the number out of his ass. I doubt he has the time to sit around and really wonder how many people actually died during the invasion. Even if he did...why would he? Most people give no ****s about how many people died, so I don't see why he would.

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I think Snyder did create a mythological event, lol.
That will never make sense to me.

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:50 PM   #80
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

People didn't gripe about the Transformers/Avengers/Hulk body counts. It only matters when Superman's involved :/

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:53 PM   #81
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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People didn't gripe about the Transformers/Avengers/Hulk body counts. It only matters when Superman's involved :/
There were actuarial analyses about the body counts in Avengers and at least one of the Transformers movies.

Hulk caused damage in the first movie and that wasn't glossed over, that was part of the point of that movie, but people didn't get that movie, so too bad.

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:53 PM   #82
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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People didn't gripe about the Transformers/Avengers/Hulk body counts. It only matters when Superman's involved :/
Maybe people think Superman, as the greatest, most radiant, pure, archetypal essence of superhero should be held to a higher standard.

Maybe, anyway.

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:53 PM   #83
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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People didn't gripe about the Transformers/Avengers/Hulk body counts. It only matters when Superman's involved :/
The tone of those films aren't the same as MOS'. Of course they didn't get the same response/criticism.

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:56 PM   #84
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Maybe because no film has shown so much destruction in an urban landscape.

I think one building fell in Transformers? (I haven't seen it) and I remember one building fell in Avengers and others were harmed.

But in MOS hundreds of buildings were smashed and all. So the damage would have been higher. Maybe that is why so many people have commented upon it.

Some damage control experts or firm estimated that Avengers damage would cost 160 billion dollars.

And MOS damage could cost 3 trillion dollars!!!

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Old 11-09-2013, 06:59 PM   #85
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Maybe because no film has shown so much destruction in an urban landscape.

I think one building fell in Transformers? (I haven't seen it) and I remember one building fell in Avengers and others were harmed.

But in MOS hundreds of buildings were smashed and all. So the damage would have been higher. Maybe that is why so many people have commented upon it.

Some damage control experts or firm estimated that Avengers damage would cost 160 billion dollars.

And MOS damage could cost 3 trillion dollars!!!
Basically, it comes down to Zach Snyder being a better director, ironicaly. He made the destruction look more realistic. That's why people are angry. He did such a good job that he made people care.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:02 PM   #86
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

That's how i see it too. Neither Whedon or Bay is better than Snyder, directing wise. Whedon is a better storyteller for sure but in terms of directing, Zack beats both of them.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:17 PM   #87
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

In terms of large scale destruction, yes, he beats Whedon and is pretty even with Bay. Overall direction Whedon>Snyder>Bay.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:25 PM   #88
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Maybe because no film has shown so much destruction in an urban landscape.

I think one building fell in Transformers? (I haven't seen it) and I remember one building fell in Avengers and others were harmed.

But in MOS hundreds of buildings were smashed and all. So the damage would have been higher. Maybe that is why so many people have commented upon it.

Some damage control experts or firm estimated that Avengers damage would cost 160 billion dollars.

And MOS damage could cost 3 trillion dollars!!!
You're kidding right
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

For starters.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:27 PM   #89
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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In terms of large scale destruction, yes, he beats Whedon and is pretty even with Bay. Overall direction Whedon>Snyder>Bay.
Unlike Whedon, Bay can actually sell a movie to the masses consistently without a script or a marketing crossover event selling it.
For better or worse.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:29 PM   #90
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Unlike Whedon, Bay can actually sell a movie to the masses consistently without a script or a marketing crossover event selling it.
For better or worse.
Yes because the market needs mindless action films with no plot so they can consume tons of pop corn and laugh hysterically to racist jokes but when you throw even the slight touch of brains it becomes pretentious.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:30 PM   #91
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Or a hit.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:35 PM   #92
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Joss Whedon has not produced many movie hits because his background is in television. Most of his career has been on TV, where he has a distinguished career from Buffy and Angel, Buffy often being ranked as one of the best shows ever made.

He's a good writer-director, and between Buffy, Angel, and Avengers, he's had a decent career. He also contributed to the first Toy Story script (I'm not sure who did what), and a few other works.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:35 PM   #93
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Yes because the market needs mindless action films with no plot so they can consume tons of pop corn and laugh hysterically to racist jokes but when you throw even the slight touch of brains it becomes pretentious.
At first I thought you were talking about the Avengers, till you pointed out the "racist" jokes.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:39 PM   #94
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

Again, he is a great storyteller and script doctor but directing wise he is just good. Honestly i think he did a great job in the Avengers but that's because he gets the characters. Much ado about nothing was solid but nothing spectacualar, directing wise. Snyder is one the most underrated directors in my opinion.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:41 PM   #95
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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At first I thought you were talking about the Avengers, till you pointed out the "racist" jokes.
Of course not. Mindless in the Avengers is a positive. We got all the character developement we needed from the solo flicks and the Avengers was the Destroy All Monsters of the series. Just action, one liners and colourful imagery. It was brilliant, shallow but it didn't need depth while the Transformers fails at everything + its racist.

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Old 11-09-2013, 07:51 PM   #96
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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Of course not. Mindless in the Avengers is a positive. We got all the character developement we needed from the solo flicks and the Avengers was the Destroy All Monsters of the series. Just action, one liners and colourful imagery. It was brilliant, shallow but it didn't need depth while the Transformers fails at everything + its racist.
If you want to call Transformers racist you can, but let's not pretend that the Avengers doesn't tap into the matrix of oppression.

Tony Stark -- The leader, white male in 50s and good at everything;
Bruce Banner -- White male, 40s or 50s
Thor -- White male, might be 1000 years old, looks like he is 28.
Steve Rogers -- white male, looks like he is 30, really he's ~92 years old.
Hawkguy -- white male, looks like he is in his 30s
Natasha Romanov -- white *female*, probably early 30s

This is a cast of white heroes that the audience can get behind, the Avengers cast in costumes could be argued to look like a ku klux klan halloween party. Transformers at least had some black cast members who contributed, certainly more than Nick Fury who is there to contribute as a motivational speaker. Further, not only is the cast white, but it's not even a diverse white: it's specifically a northern european white.

Contrast this to Man of Steel, which had black actors for General Swanwick and Perry White, and of their white actors, not all were northern European exraction (e.g. Chris Meloni, Ayelet Zurer, Alessandro Juliani, Antje Traue). If race is an issue you genuinely care about, then Avengers is far behind Man of Steel, Pacific Rim, or Man of Steel.

I leave aside some of the offensive jokes in the Avengers, which mock adopted people, Germans, etc. I also leave aside the military porn at the start, where Shield mocks some incompetent eastern European mobsters in a show of American military (we have F-18s on your ass!!!) meant to stroke the audience's ego about the distribution of power in the world.


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Old 11-09-2013, 07:56 PM   #97
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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If you want to call Transformers racist you can, but let's not pretend that the Avengers doesn't tap into the matrix of oppression.

Tony Stark -- The leader, white male in 50s and good at everything;
Bruce Banner -- White male, 40s or 50s
Thor -- White male, might be 1000 years old, looks like he is 28.
Steve Rogers -- white male, looks like he is 30, really he's ~92 years old.
Hawkguy -- white male, looks like he is in his 30s
Natasha Romanov -- white *female*, probably early 30s

This is a cast of white heroes that the audience can get behind, the Avengers cast in costumes could be argued to look like a ku klux klan halloween party. Transformers at least had some black cast members who contributed, certainly more than Nick Fury who is there to contribute as a motivational speaker. Further, not only is the cast white, but it's not even a diverse white: it's specifically a northern european white.

Contrast this to Man of Steel, which had black actors for General Swanwick and Perry White, and of their white actors, not all were northern European exraction (e.g. Chris Meloni, Ayelet Zurer, Alessandro Juliani, Antje Traue). If race is an issue you genuinely care about, then Avengers is far behind Man of Steel, Pacific Rim, or Man of Steel.

I leave aside some of the offensive jokes in the Avengers, which mock adopted people, Germans, etc. I also leave aside the military porn at the start, where Shield mocks some incompetent eastern European mobsters in a show of American military (we have F-18s on your ass!!!) meant to stroke the audience's ego about the distribution of power in the world.
I see your point and i agree but still the Avengers didn't offend any minority, at least not directly. They made fun of the general idea of things. It is no lie that Americans don't like Europeans and that the Germans were *******s during WW2 (some folks will tell you they still are) but TA didn't have Jar Jar Binks style of racism.

I totally agree with MoS, it was relatable towards everyone.

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:01 PM   #98
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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I see your point and i agree but still the Avengers didn't offend any minority, at least not directly. They made fun of the general idea of things. It is no lie that Americans don't like Europeans and that the Germans were *******s during WW2 (some folks will tell you they still are) but TA didn't have Jar Jar Binks style of racism.

I totally agree with MoS, it was relatable towards everyone.
When Captain America sees Loki working the crowd in Berlin, he says "the last time I saw a lunatic working a crowd of Germans, it didn't end well".

It's a racist joke, as it attributes the rise of Hitler to Germans being Germans, as opposed to the historical and material conditions present in that part of the world at the time. It's also ignorant though, and you know what, that's what a lot of people believe.

If Loki had been working up a crowd in Los Angeles, and Tony Stark had made a comment about the Rodney King riots, audiences would have laughed just as hard (possibly even harder), and the joke would have been just as dumb and just as problematic.

There is also the continuity error that Hitler was a bit player in Captain America's first movie. If you saw the movie, the Red Skull and Hydra clearly became a lot more powerful than Hitler, and therefore he should not be associating Germany with Hitler.

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:16 PM   #99
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

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When Captain America sees Loki working the crowd in Berlin, he says "the last time I saw a lunatic working a crowd of Germans, it didn't end well".

It's a racist joke, as it attributes the rise of Hitler to Germans being Germans, as opposed to the historical and material conditions present in that part of the world at the time. It's also ignorant though, and you know what, that's what a lot of people believe.

If Loki had been working up a crowd in Los Angeles, and Tony Stark had made a comment about the Rodney King riots, audiences would have laughed just as hard (possibly even harder), and the joke would have been just as dumb and just as problematic.

There is also the continuity error that Hitler was a bit player in Captain America's first movie. If you saw the movie, the Red Skull and Hydra clearly became a lot more powerful than Hitler, and therefore he should not be associating Germany with Hitler.
I get it but probably nobody picked on that. It's funny because if you think about it, it is offensive. I guess everyone was so overwhelmed by the fact that it was the first time we saw all these guys together because really this is the first time i've seen somebody accuse TA for racism. Interesting, very interesting.

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Old 11-09-2013, 08:28 PM   #100
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

I think you guys might be reading a bit too much into things...

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