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Old 11-09-2013, 10:27 PM   #101
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

I think that whether or not Loki really died or whether it was all his magic, I think it was all part of his plan to escape and retake the throne.

He knew that Thor was just going to throw him back in prison, so his best chance to escape was to fake his death. Even the way he protected Jane was probably part of his self interested scheme: by keeping Jane alive he kept alive Thor's more immediate desire to NOT take the throne and NOT hang around Asgard. Much as I like the idea of Loki of proving that he cares about Thor by being willing to die for Thor or save Jane...keeping it real, I think he had this all planned out. He spent two years sitting in that cell stewing in his craziness and planning for everything.

(I will say though, that Loki, IMO, tends to couch the truth within his lies: I think a lot of the things he said to Thor at Svartalfheim and when he was disguised as Odin were probably true -- he just couldn't say them without being able to to himself that it was all part of a game and that he didn't really mean them.)

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Old 11-10-2013, 01:48 AM   #102
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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Originally Posted by psylockolussus View Post
Thats what I thought too especially with the close-up shots for that soldier. But for the people who haven't been attention to every detail, it could be confusing to them.
I caught the fact that the soldier was Loki the first time I saw the movie, so I'm sure plenty of other moviegoers did the same. They didn't try to disguise it completely.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:25 AM   #103
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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One Problem Odin had the power to send Thor to earth. I'm assuming he could send him self some where if he wished.
We're not sure if Odin can do this by himself, or needs access to something in order to do it. It's highly possible he has managed to contain energy from the Tesseract in some form and thereby generate a bridge. If a WW2 german scientist can find a way of extracting it's energy, I'm giving it to Odin that he knows how to do this through his own manipulation of the Odinforce.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:29 AM   #104
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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Was there anything else after the credits after the Collector scene????

I know I should have stayed but my whole family dragged me out after the Collector scene.
That sucks. I hate it when that happens. Jane Foster, Darcy, Erik Selvig, and the intern get a visit from Thor while they're eating and Jane runs out to meet him and they make out all dramatic-like (I felt this would have been better attached to the ending of the movie and THEN have the credits roll). We then see that the Frost Giant monster is still running around England.

On the subject at hand, I absolutely love the idea of Loki going to Hel and making a deal (maybe even with Surtur). I can see her and her minions (or Surtur's) overpowering Odin and leaving Loki in charge.

Someone mentioned Loki giving the Collector the gem as payment to Thanos and I agree with that considering Thanos has been all ready to make Loki "wish for something as sweet as pain" after his failure. That is certainly one way to let bygones be bygones.

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Old 11-10-2013, 08:45 AM   #105
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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Originally Posted by Farren View Post
I think that whether or not Loki really died or whether it was all his magic, I think it was all part of his plan to escape and retake the throne.

He knew that Thor was just going to throw him back in prison, so his best chance to escape was to fake his death. Even the way he protected Jane was probably part of his self interested scheme: by keeping Jane alive he kept alive Thor's more immediate desire to NOT take the throne and NOT hang around Asgard. Much as I like the idea of Loki of proving that he cares about Thor by being willing to die for Thor or save Jane...keeping it real, I think he had this all planned out. He spent two years sitting in that cell stewing in his craziness and planning for everything.

(I will say though, that Loki, IMO, tends to couch the truth within his lies: I think a lot of the things he said to Thor at Svartalfheim and when he was disguised as Odin were probably true -- he just couldn't say them without being able to to himself that it was all part of a game and that he didn't really mean them.)

I tend to agree with this. Loki lies to everyone else but he also lies to himself.

Haha, At least Marvel gave us a lot to think about as we commence the next long wait.

I also wonder how much of what happened was premeditated by Loki or if he just plotted as he went along. I think he obviously meant to find a way to peace out at some point (as in he had no intention of going back to his cozy cell) but protecting Thor was obviously risky with how dangerous Kurse was. Do you think he was actually afraid for Thor when Thor was getting pummeled by Kurse? When the camera pauses on him it almost looks like he's trying to decide what to do.


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Old 11-10-2013, 01:03 PM   #106
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

What does the ending mean? Absolutely nothing, there is no consequences in this sitcom universe. Did Loki kill Odin? No probably not. They should have left Loki dead, that would have been a great ending.

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Old 11-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #107
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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What does the ending mean? Absolutely nothing, there is no consequences in this sitcom universe. Did Loki kill Odin? No probably not. They should have left Loki dead, that would have been a great ending.
A little cynical, but I agree, I would have liked it infinitely more if Loki had stayed dead. It would have opened the path for female Loki, which would've been quite sweet.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:50 PM   #108
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

After that great end scene between Thor and Odin, I think the twist ending was a terrible move, designed only to hype people for part 3.

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Old 11-10-2013, 06:06 PM   #109
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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Originally Posted by Farren View Post
I think that whether or not Loki really died or whether it was all his magic, I think it was all part of his plan to escape and retake the throne.

He knew that Thor was just going to throw him back in prison, so his best chance to escape was to fake his death. Even the way he protected Jane was probably part of his self interested scheme: by keeping Jane alive he kept alive Thor's more immediate desire to NOT take the throne and NOT hang around Asgard. Much as I like the idea of Loki of proving that he cares about Thor by being willing to die for Thor or save Jane...keeping it real, I think he had this all planned out. He spent two years sitting in that cell stewing in his craziness and planning for everything.

(I will say though, that Loki, IMO, tends to couch the truth within his lies: I think a lot of the things he said to Thor at Svartalfheim and when he was disguised as Odin were probably true -- he just couldn't say them without being able to to himself that it was all part of a game and that he didn't really mean them.)
This is pretty much how I read it as well. I don't think he died at all. I think he pulled the whole illusion trick of being killed, just like he just pulled off the trick of "double crossing" Thor and cutting off his hand.

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I caught the fact that the soldier was Loki the first time I saw the movie, so I'm sure plenty of other moviegoers did the same. They didn't try to disguise it completely.
I picked it up, too. Wasn't that the same guard he pretended to be for Thor when he was going through the illusions, including disguising himself as Cap?

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Old 11-10-2013, 09:25 PM   #110
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

Speaking of endings, the first end credit scene with Sif and company giving 'The Collector' the Aether(sp), what was that about as I'm not familiar with 'The Collector' character? Is he no one important?

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Old 11-10-2013, 09:54 PM   #111
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

So, are we to assume Thor will be living on Earth with Jane for A:AOU?

That could make for a very different character arc for Thor, showcasing him trying to adjust to life on Earth. Or would he just be walking around in his Asgardian getup?

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Old 11-11-2013, 03:07 AM   #112
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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Speaking of endings, the first end credit scene with Sif and company giving 'The Collector' the Aether(sp), what was that about as I'm not familiar with 'The Collector' character? Is he no one important?
He's the villain for Guardians of The Galaxy and he works for Thanos. He's collecting the Infinity Gems for him (the Aether and Tesseract being two of them already revealed). "One down, five to go." He's pretty important.

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Old 11-11-2013, 03:11 AM   #113
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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So, are we to assume Thor will be living on Earth with Jane for A:AOU?

That could make for a very different character arc for Thor, showcasing him trying to adjust to life on Earth. Or would he just be walking around in his Asgardian getup?
That's exactly why the ending has me so excited. Thor will be roaming around earth being a superhero, none the wiser to what Loki is doing to Asgard. He's going to come back to a home that's beyond screwy and confused as to why Odin is doing this. This may be what finally forces him to take up kingship. Everyone on earth knows who Thor is so there probably is no real reason for him to disguise himself or wear earth clothes but I'm sure we will anyway.

I loved the twist ending. The movie felt whole and resolved but left one thread tangling for a future tale. That's how you do a cliffhanger right. Not this "stop the story smack in the middle of the climax" garbage that's done a lot.

MAN, do I love this movie. I need to watch it again.

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Old 11-11-2013, 03:15 AM   #114
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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So, are we to assume Thor will be living on Earth with Jane for A:AOU?

That could make for a very different character arc for Thor, showcasing him trying to adjust to life on Earth. Or would he just be walking around in his Asgardian getup?
Originally it was intended anding but for some reason it was changed last moment. He was adapting, to the point of being in human getup and living with Jane in her flat-in current ending it`s just strongly implemented. He will move to US at some point I think so he can be there with rest of Avengers. And yep I cant wait for Thor 3, hope it will be planed to 2016 not 2017.

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Old 11-11-2013, 07:27 PM   #115
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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He's the villain for Guardians of The Galaxy and he works for Thanos. He's collecting the Infinity Gems for him (the Aether and Tesseract being two of them already revealed). "One down, five to go." He's pretty important.
waitaminute...since when is the Tesseract one of the Infinity Gems? Isn't the Tesseract the Cosmic Cube? And aren't they like completely separate things?

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Old 11-11-2013, 07:41 PM   #116
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

I'm a bit lost on the tesseract part too Jay. I mean Loki DOES say something to the effect "you have A Tesseract" meaning there's more than one Tesseract in the Avengers when he was talking to Fury.

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Old 11-11-2013, 11:09 PM   #117
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

I viewed these scenes a little differently than what's been written here:

1. I thought Loki just turned himself back into the same guard he showed Thor when they were sneaking out of Asgard. Why else would they show him in this form earlier and allow him to converse with Thor?

2. The scene in the dungeon where he spoke with his mother was genuine because it was his mother conveying her image down there to talk with him. After all, Thor mentions Loki "had all her tricks" when they were arguing just after they hit the secret portal and landed in the world of the dark elves in the flying boat thingy. I left the film thinking Loki learned his shspeshifting and image conveying skill from Thor's mother.

This is how I saw it and will be taking the family this weekend to see it. So I'll have a better interpretation after a 2nd viewing.

As for Odin, I left thinking Odin possibly left to find Loki. The "guard" never said where they found the body, only who the body belonged to. And Odin's reaction seemed like a father concerned. Maybe I read too much into his reaction...


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Old 11-11-2013, 11:38 PM   #118
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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I viewed these scenes a little differently than what's been written here:

1. I thought Loki just turned himself back into the same guard he showed Thor when they were sneaking out of Asgard. Why else would they show him in this form earlier and allow him to converse with Thor?

2. The scene in the dungeon where he spoke with his mother was genuine because it was his mother conveying her image down there to talk with him. After all, Thor mentions Loki "had all her tricks" when they were arguing just after they hit the secret portal and landed in the world of the dark elves in the flying boat thingy. I left the film thinking Loki learned his shspeshifting and image conveying skill from Thor's mother.

This is how I saw it and will be taking the family this weekend to see it. So I'll have a better interpretation after a 2nd viewing.

As for Odin, I left thinking Odin possibly left to find Loki. The "guard" never said where they found the body, only who the body belonged to. And Odin's reaction seemed like a father concerned. Maybe I read too much into his reaction...
The guard was an actual guard earlier in the movie.....when Frigga dies, that guard actually comes to Loki's cell. That's the same guard that Loki disguises himself as when he's goofing with Thor, and again when he deceives Odin. So I'm assuming that's a recognized guard, some kind of royal steward or chamberlain or something who has cache with both Frigga and Odin, and who cares enough about Loki to sneak down to the dungeon to inform him of Frigga's death.

And I don't think Odin is "absent" from Asgard in any fashion. He's flat out dead, and I think that's the worst use of off-screen action in the MCU to date. Anthony Hopkins and Alan Taylor specifically confirmed that Odin is dead in an interview over on CBM; Feige is a little more elusive about it.

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Old 11-12-2013, 12:00 AM   #119
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waitaminute...since when is the Tesseract one of the Infinity Gems? Isn't the Tesseract the Cosmic Cube? And aren't they like completely separate things?
Apparently it is in the movies. The gems are being merged with other mystical Marvel objects to simplify things I guess. It was mentioned that the other tesseract (implying that the Aether is a tesseract as well) is on Asgard already and that they don't think it's safe to have the two in the same location. I found it a shocker myself and a bit of a clever way of hiding the Infinity Gems from even the fans. I sure as heck didn't predict the Cosmic Cube being one.

EDIT: I found the exact quote! (not going to reveal how. )

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
The Collector: ...But if I may ask...Why not keep it (The Aether) secure in your own vault?
Volstagg: The Tesseract is already on Asgard. It is not wise to keep two Infinity Stones so close together.

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Old 11-12-2013, 01:22 PM   #120
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

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The guard was an actual guard earlier in the movie.....when Frigga dies, that guard actually comes to Loki's cell. That's the same guard that Loki disguises himself as when he's goofing with Thor, and again when he deceives Odin. So I'm assuming that's a recognized guard, some kind of royal steward or chamberlain or something who has cache with both Frigga and Odin, and who cares enough about Loki to sneak down to the dungeon to inform him of Frigga's death.

And I don't think Odin is "absent" from Asgard in any fashion. He's flat out dead, and I think that's the worst use of off-screen action in the MCU to date. Anthony Hopkins and Alan Taylor specifically confirmed that Odin is dead in an interview over on CBM; Feige is a little more elusive about it.
Anthony Hopkins was just having a bad day I bet lol

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Old 11-12-2013, 02:19 PM   #121
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Nah, I think Loki's love for Frigga was genuine. That was laced throughout the film. And I even recall reading the first draft script for the first movie way back, and there was a whole lot of stuff about how Loki was always estranged from Odin but had a close relationship with Frigga that didn't fully transfer into the eventual film, but which they seem to have carried over more here.
I agree. I highly doubt the studio would want to make loki that unrelatable to the audience, the one thing most ppl can relate too is a mothers love. Also when loki was given the news he trashed his room and was alone so i feel that was a true geniune moment for loki to show us his true feelings (love) for her.

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Old 11-12-2013, 02:23 PM   #122
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

Or they are continuing suspense by saying he's dead rather than immediately admit he's locked away somewhere? Either way, Hopkins would be back anyway as he would have play Odin (even if it's Loki impersonating him). And, I thought at D23, he and Portman were do exciting and anxious to do a third. (I'll try to find the quote).

Hopkins would have to come back as I doubt Thor would have no idea about Loki taking over Asgard just because he's on Earth with Jane, so Loki would need to continue the Odin charade. Thors not exiled like the first film and promised to protect the Nine Realms, so I'm sure Heimdal is zipping him all around by Thor 3, even if his home base is now Earth.

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Old 11-12-2013, 02:39 PM   #123
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Default Re: SUPER UBER SPOILERMANIA: The Ending... What Does It Mean?

There is a really good (SPOILER FILLED) podcast on Empire Online (the magazine) with Feige, Taylor and Hiddleston. They talk about a lot of the things I've seen discussed here. Tom Hiddleston says that he thinks three things Loki said/did were truthful, that Loki did love Frigga, the "trust my rage" line and the end line "I didn't do it for him" (as in he didn't do what he did for Odin).

The interview itself is quite good. I've only watched the first part but they cover a lot of topics and manage to hint at a lot of things without actually ever giving anything away. :P

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Old 11-12-2013, 07:06 PM   #124
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There is a really good (SPOILER FILLED) podcast on Empire Online (the magazine) with Feige, Taylor and Hiddleston. They talk about a lot of the things I've seen discussed here. Tom Hiddleston says that he thinks three things Loki said/did were truthful, that Loki did love Frigga, the "trust my rage" line and the end line "I didn't do it for him" (as in he didn't do what he did for Odin).

The interview itself is quite good. I've only watched the first part but they cover a lot of topics and manage to hint at a lot of things without actually ever giving anything away. :P
The "I didn't do it for him" quote. I was wondering who he did do it for. Was it for Frigga or for Thor or for himself?

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Old 11-12-2013, 07:44 PM   #125
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The "I didn't do it for him" quote. I was wondering who he did do it for. Was it for Frigga or for Thor or for himself?
The interview leaves that question open. All TH confirms is that it was not for Odin. Hopefully a future film will give us an answer!

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