Fan Review Thread SPOILERS INSIDE - Part 2

[Mjölnir]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Making Earth the center of the situation, while having a portal that leads to a place that is suppose to be impossible to find are just two examples.

How is making Earth the center of the situation a plot convenience? Have you ever thought about why it's called Midgard? It's even explained in the movies that it's the center realm, just as it is in mythology.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Making Earth the center of the situation, while having a portal that leads to a place that is suppose to be impossible to find are just two examples.

Well....it did take 5,000 years for someone to find it....and the only reason anyone found it then was because of the giant worlds/dimentions/realms once every 5,000 years convergience. If you think it was "too convient" that Jane found it....it is also "too convienient" that the convergience happened in the time frame where Thor has a special feeling about the people of Earth instead of two hundred years ago when he wouldn't have cared less about our puny planet.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

Well....it did take 5,000 years for someone to find it....and the only reason anyone found it then was because of the giant worlds/dimentions/realms once every 5,000 years convergience. If you think it was "too convient" that Jane found it....it is also "too convienient" that the convergience happened in the time frame where Thor has a special feeling about the people of Earth instead of two hundred years ago when he wouldn't have cared less about our puny planet.

I actually agree that tying it to Earth at this point in time was convenient.

[kedrell]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Making Earth the center of the situation, while having a portal that leads to a place that is suppose to be impossible to find are just two examples.

They don't call it Midgard(the middle realm) for nothing. Glad I watched A:EMH or I'd have never got that.

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

I actually agree that tying it to Earth at this point in time was convenient.

But it's not "convenient" that Earth is the only planet the Kryptons could go to and harvest right?

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Mjölnir

How is making Earth the center of the situation a plot convenience? Have you ever thought about why it's called Midgard? It's even explained in the movies that it's the center realm, just as it is in mythology.

It is done simply to make Jane important to the plot again.

And if we are using that logic, why does it keep going to Svartalfheim? Midgard is between Jotunheim and Nidavellir. But the vast majority of the portals go to Svartalfhiem.

Originally Posted by Rock Sexton

But it's not "convenient" that Earth is the only planet the Kryptons could go to and harvest right?

They weren't going to harvest. They went looking for the codex. They also never intended to harvest Earth, they wanted to raze it. Got to keep up.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

Making Earth the center of the situation, while having a portal that leads to a place that is suppose to be impossible to find are just two examples.

After what, 5000 years? The convergence awakens the Aether and it is the source for these blurred borderlines of the realms. It may have been hidden REAAAAALLY really well but it is, in itself the source of this reality warping. Thusly, Earth is not the center of the situation, The Aether is. And being the one focal point blurring the lines between the other realms, one of which is Midgard. Another of which (if you remember) was Asgard, when Loki's little portal pops them out walking distance to the Aether's hiding place as well?

Still. Not really seeing any particular cinematic catastophy of a "convenience"

Lets look at some other conveniences.

Rhodey fits perfectly into Iron Man MK II?
Loki fell off the bifrost and somehow ended up in Midgard with no explanation.
Captain America being discovered in the ice just months before The Avengers have to gather to defeat Loki's army?
Bifrost is destroyed but Odin can summon dark energy to transport Thor to earth just before The Avengers have to gather to defeat Loki's army.
Iron Man fell through the closing tesseract portal split seconds before it closes. pretty freaking convenient if you ask me.

Yet this one is the one that is the problem?

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

Well....it did take 5,000 years for someone to find it....and the only reason anyone found it then was because of the giant worlds/dimentions/realms once every 5,000 years convergience. If you think it was "too convient" that Jane found it....it is also "too convienient" that the convergience happened in the time frame where Thor has a special feeling about the people of Earth instead of two hundred years ago when he wouldn't have cared less about our puny planet.

And again, also not seeing a crime of convenience here. The Aether has awakened in the same basic era/time frame as the Tesseract. Which one might be able to deduce that ALL of the infinity stones are being awakened for the same purpose/ends or by the same means. Sure it just so happens that Jane is alive during that time frame and that Thor was banished in a similar timeframe. But then is not his banishment in Thor 1 in the year 2011 (and not 1911 or 2011 BC) more convenient than anything that happens in Thor 2?

[kedrell]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Loki fell off the bifrost and somehow ended up in Midgard with no explanation.

I don't think Loki was ever on Earth(except when he came to taunt Thor while he was in custody) before the beginning of TA. Him with Selvig at the end of Thor1 I think was just him astral projecting himself. He needed the cube to be a doorway to physically get to Earth so he influenced Selvig to get to work on it. At least that's how I see it.

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by DarthSkywalker

They weren't going to harvest. They went looking for the codex. They also never intended to harvest Earth, they wanted to raze it. Got to keep up.

Semantics. They wanted Earth for their own. The story was written so that their other bases were now inhabitable. Earth became the only place. CONVENIENT. Isn't it also convenient that the Codex ended up on the only place they could build a new world on.

[C. Lee]

It was just a matter of convience that.....

out of all the worlds in the galaxy Superman's rocket landed on Earth....

that out of all the reactions a boy can have to seeing his parents die in front of him, that Bruce Wayne decided to dress up as a bat....

that the radioactive spider bite didn't kill Peter Parker or at least make doctors have to amputate his irradiated diseased hand.....

that 99.999999999999999% of the things that happened in movies or comics happened at all........

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

After what, 5000 years? The convergence awakens the Aether and it is the source for these blurred borderlines of the realms. It may have been hidden REAAAAALLY really well but it is, in itself the source of this reality warping. Thusly, Earth is not the center of the situation, The Aether is. And being the one focal point blurring the lines between the other realms, one of which is Midgard. Another of which (if you remember) was Asgard, when Loki's little portal pops them out walking distance to the Aether's hiding place as well?

Still. Not really seeing any particular cinematic catastophy of a "convenience"

Lets look at some other conveniences.

Rhodey fits perfectly into Iron Man MK II?
Loki fell off the bifrost and somehow ended up in Midgard with no explanation.
Captain America being discovered in the ice just months before The Avengers have to gather to defeat Loki's army?
Bifrost is destroyed but Odin can summon dark energy to transport Thor to earth just before The Avengers have to gather to defeat Loki's army.
Iron Man fell through the closing tesseract portal split seconds before it closes. pretty freaking convenient if you ask me.

Yet this one is the one that is the problem?

Whether I agree if those are extreme conveniences or not, none are the only thread tying the entire film together. The one person in the universe that sutbles upon the Aether, at the exact right time is Thor's girlfriend. Everything is written to feed that, to get Jane back to Thor and to Asgard. Cap getting out at that time is convenient. But it doesn't bend the entire plot of the Avengers to it. Same for the rest.

The one thing in the universe the villain needs falls into his lap thanks to Thor's girlfriend. You can be ok with it, that is fine. I don't love it, but I got over it.

By the way, on Thor being sent to Earth in the Avengers. It is to get the Cube and Loki. They are aware of his planes and they know they can use the Cube the travel and fix the Bi-frost. The dark energy is a last resort, one way only thing. That isn't convenient, that is good writing imo.

[Rock Sexton]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

It was just a matter of convience that.....

out of all the worlds in the galaxy Superman's rocket landed on Earth....

that out of all the reactions a boy can have to seeing his parents die in front of him, that Bruce Wayne decided to dress up as a bat....

that the radioactive spider bite didn't kill Peter Parker or at least make doctors have to amputate his irradiated diseased hand.....

that 99.999999999999999% of the things that happened in movies or comics happened at all........

Thank you.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by kedrell

I don't think Loki was ever on Earth(except when he came to taunt Thor while he was in custody) before the beginning of TA. Him with Selvig at the end of Thor1 I think was just him astral projecting himself. He needed the cube to be a doorway to physically get to Earth so he influenced Selvig to get to work on it. At least that's how I see it.

Fair enough lol. But a lot of this is "just how we see it." Like "Loki never fell off the bifrost that was another illusion."

Like Rhodey fitting into the Mk II. "Oh Tony probably built it to his specifications cuz he wanted him to take it." Yeah but the movie never says that.

"Nick Fury was actively searching for Cap for his Avengers Initiative." yeah but they never say that.

"Jane Foster is actually going to be the MCU's version of Amora and that's why the Aether is attracted to her." Yeah but I just made that crap up.

[C. Lee]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

And again, also not seeing a crime of convenience here. The Aether has awakened in the same basic era/time frame as the Tesseract. Which one might be able to deduce that ALL of the infinity stones are being awakened for the same purpose/ends or by the same means. Sure it just so happens that Jane is alive during that time frame and that Thor was banished in a similar timeframe. But then is not his banishment in Thor 1 in the year 2011 (and not 1911 or 2011 BC) more convenient than anything that happens in Thor 2?

You misunderstood my post....

[kedrell]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Fair enough lol. But a lot of this is "just how we see it." Like "Loki never fell off the bifrost that was another illusion."

Like Rhodey fitting into the Mk II. "Oh Tony probably built it to his specifications cuz he wanted him to take it." Yeah but the movie never says that.

"Nick Fury was actively searching for Cap for his Avengers Initiative." yeah but they never say that.

"Jane Foster is actually going to be the MCU's version of Amora and that's why the Aether is attracted to her." Yeah but I just made that crap up.

It's strongly hinted at. He has authorization/access. BW even mentions all this in the donut shop meeting with Fury and Stark. And Tony originally DID want Rhodey to be the test pilot for the Iron Man project.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by Rock Sexton

Semantics. They wanted Earth for their own. The story was written so that their other bases were now inhabitable. Earth became the only place. CONVENIENT. Isn't it also convenient that the Codex ended up on the only place they could build a new world on.

No, because that is why Jor-El sent his son there. Because it could nurture.

Originally Posted by C. Lee

It was just a matter of convience that.....

out of all the worlds in the galaxy Superman's rocket landed on Earth....

that out of all the reactions a boy can have to seeing his parents die in front of him, that Bruce Wayne decided to dress up as a bat....

that the radioactive spider bite didn't kill Peter Parker or at least make doctors have to amputate his irradiated diseased hand.....

that 99.999999999999999% of the things that happened in movies or comics happened at all........

Superman's rocket was sent to Earth on purpose. It isn't random.

Bruce fears bats, that is why he uses them. It is him conquering his fears.

Agree on Parker, but I love it.

Not every film is Peacemaker.



Yes a lot of convenience in fantasy and sci-fi filmmaking. But when it is executed in what I feel is a lazy and haphazard way, I am allowed.

[Wolverine's Run]

Estimated $86 million for the weekend, over $300 million worldwide.

[pr0xyt0xin]

Originally Posted by C. Lee

You misunderstood my post....

Actually meant it as a response to Darth's comment that he did in fact find that convenient. Less as a response to you. So my apologies.

idk if any of this is really convenience anyway, but rather coincidence. And there is that approach to developing cinematic plot where they say, "Coincidences to get characters into trouble are great; coincidences to get them out of it are cheating."

Source: http://io9.com/5916970/the-22-rules-...rding-to-pixar

[TeeKay]

Originally Posted by Rock Sexton

Semantics. They wanted Earth for their own. The story was written so that their other bases were now inhabitable. Earth became the only place. CONVENIENT. Isn't it also convenient that the Codex ended up on the only place they could build a new world on.

I have no idea why some people have a problem with Jane finding the Aether. I certainly didn't care because it didn't take away from my overall enjoyment of the film.

[DarthSkywalker]

Jane finds the one portal in the entire universe that will take her to the Aether, that infects her, and forces Thor to pick her up. Placing the Aether in Malekith's line of sight.

Maybe it is just that I don't like Jane Foster. It didn't ruin the movie for me, not even close, but it does annoy me.

[pr0xyt0xin]

I did hope Jane would die in this movie. It was setup perfectly. But then they went and killed off Thor's other love interest instead -_-

I do think it could/should have further ramifications though. One does not simply become infused with the Aether and walk away unscathed

[ares834]

Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin

Okay no. Jane finding the Aether is not nearly as unfortunately "convenient" as you all would have us believe. She's been searching for these type of anomalies for 2 years. She's in London because Selvig insisted she be there. She is a world renowned scientist (by now) and specializes in fashioning her own equipment. This equipment managed to pickup a signal for the convergence between the realms. Whilst investigating she slipped into the alternate realm (where the Aether was hidden by Bor's men) and it bonded itself to her.

Um, yes it is. The fact that she stumbled upon one of these anomalies is fine. The problem is that this portal takes her directly to the Aether. The chances of it taking her to the Aether rather than any other place in the nine worlds completely strains credibility. And this isn't the only time something like this happens.

Another huge one is that Thor and Jane just happen to stumble upon the portal that the intern threw the keys through.

[metaphysician]

Actually, I don't think Jane finding the Aether was coincidence. Remember that when Jane was in Asgard, it acted without her desire to "defend" her. I would not be shocked in the slightest if the Aether *deliberately* drew her towards it, via the Convergence gates. It "wanted" to get loose into the larger world.

[DarthSkywalker]

Originally Posted by metaphysician

Actually, I don't think Jane finding the Aether was coincidence. Remember that when Jane was in Asgard, it acted without her desire to "defend" her. I would not be shocked in the slightest if the Aether *deliberately* drew her towards it, via the Convergence gates. It "wanted" to get loose into the larger world.

This I like. That it attaches itself to Thor's girlfriend out of everyone in the universe though, why didn't it just open a portal to Malekith in that case? If it "active" while in the stone of course.