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View Poll Results: The better scene?
Iron Man's First Flight 27 50.94%
Superman's First Flight 26 49.06%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-03-2013, 07:09 PM   #26
chiefchirpa
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
That is an interesting argument. that you prefer IM because you could
one day do that too.

I believe you are fully entitled to your opinion. But your reason for holding that opinion seems to raise some logical issues.

1) Are you familiar with the superhero paradigm ? Often the "super" refers to the fact that they possess abilities that normal humans do not, and could never have. In saying it's been done before, well, Superman was the first super-hero, he's been around for 75 years so actually, he did it first.

2) If you can only enjoy a character's exploits because of the "we can too" factor, then you must not really enjoy the triumphs of Thor, Spider-man, or the Hulk. Surprisingly people often do enjoy seeing Wolverine win fights, despite the fact he's functionally unkillable.

In the same way, many enjoy Superman immensely, although he defies most of the laws of physics or biology. We can never be like him, but we can still enjoy his stories.
(e.g. his first flight being an important moment in the character's development where he first comes to terms with his alien heritage, and accepts his true identity)

So, in summary, saying you prefer IM to MOS because you just enjoyed it more is cool. But, if it's because of the "we can too" factor (are you a billionaire, genius, playboy, with a completely impossible fusion reactor in your chest ? ok, then let's put that aside) anyway, you are limiting yourself to a very small portion of the superhero genre.

Personally, I hated Harry Potter, but several billion people disagreed with me, despite the fact that none of them had functional wands, invisibility cloaks or could speak to snakes.

In closing, I would argue that the precise reason people like those stories, is because they don't have those amazing, but imaginary things.
A lot of us like superheroes, not because we'd like them to be like us, but because we'd like to be like them.
Hmm, it's not entirely true that being a superhero has to be unrealistic. Batman and James Bond use (almost) realistic realistic gadget & skills to defeat their foes, and these heroes captures mainstream adults' interest better than those classical superheroes like Superman or Thor. Because their "superheroic" feats, which are not entirely out of this world, are doable.

Most adults want to be like Steve Jobs, Elon Musk or some savvy righteous political figures instead of donning cape as Superman. Adults are over the impossible of classical, fantasy superheroes and looking forward what's doable and still inside the realism sphere. Now Iron Man is not exact realism with the chest reactor (but IM is not all about chest reactor if you read the comics), but the premise of a human inside an exosuit doing extraordinary feats is not entirely farfetched. The US army is looking to develop its own Iron Men in the near future.

I don't want to start a prolonged debate not which superhero type is the best for all of us. For me it's the realistic one because having the chance, I don't want to be just a spectator I want to be in the driver seat. I'm a technology aware adult (programmer by trade) who believes tech is the only realistic way to improve lives (including paying my salary ) and do extraordinary things. It's through tech that people can "fly" and have moon landings. So it's only natural Batman and especially the tech geared IM are my kind of superheroes. It's not to say that I don't like fantastic superheroes, but I've somewhat grown over them. Let's say I'm interested more on what is achievable than what is totally fiction.

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Old 11-04-2013, 12:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Quote:
Adults are over the impossible of classical, fantasy superheroes and looking forward what's doable and still inside the realism sphere. "
As I find that a tad condescending, and also factually unsupportable.
I will take this opportunity to respond.

On that note, if you like "realistic" superheroes, you will really enjoy
Batman Earth one - if you can believe in genius, billionaire, forensic
scientist, mechanic, chemical engineer, athlete, detective ninjas.

I love Batman, and my wife's favourite TV show is Person of Interest,
which has basically split Batman into two people the fighter/detective
and the scientist/genius/billionaire, and even that is a bit far-fetched.

Anyway Feel free to read or ignore what follows. It is not a personal attack, on you or your taste, but it is a rebuttal of your assertion.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Your statement

"Adults are over the impossible of classical, fantasy superheroes and looking forward what's doable and still inside the realism sphere."

is simply not correct.

Personally, I'd rather be Superman than Steve Jobs or Barack Obama any day. And, personally, I prefer escapist entertainment, because if I want to see what's possible, I turn on the news.
I suspect the billions of Harry Potter fans are with me on that one, btw, many of them are adults, although I don't like Harry Potter, so perhaps Lord of the Rings is a better analogy. When I last visited the Weta cave, there were a lot more adults in there than kids.

Anyway, if Adults were really over such things (let's pretend Harry Potter didn't exist), WBros and Disney would not have an audience for their super-hero films, (the billion dollars made by the Avengers say otherwise) or the Fast and Furious films for that matter, which violate Newtonian laws in the most outrageous ways. Or perhaps Star Wars, because lightsabres, telekinesis-precognition-telepathy (the Force), ghosts, aliens seem to be outside what's "doable". Didn't you like Star Wars, Chief Chirpa ? The argument that we like those things as kids
and then get over them, is equally fallacious, given the number of
adults who went to see the Star Wars prequels.

If you really want to go down that rabbit hole, you might consider how many adults conform to belief systems that involve omnipotent anthropomorphic beings, and demi-gods who can return to life, after being nailed to trees. Or the billion or so hindu, whose pantheon includes a god with an elephant head. By your argument, adults should be "over" that.


So, while you are completely entitled to like what you like, and more power to you, your assertion that unrealistic entertainment is not the domain of adults is thus not borne out by facts.

There are of course, plenty of adults who do not enjoy unrealistic escapism, but to make a general statement that adults are over such
things is utterly wrong.



QED

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Old 11-04-2013, 01:21 AM   #28
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Superman
I like that scene more

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Old 11-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
As I find that a tad condescending, and also factually unsupportable.
I will take this opportunity to respond.

On that note, if you like "realistic" superheroes, you will really enjoy
Batman Earth one - if you can believe in genius, billionaire, forensic
scientist, mechanic, chemical engineer, athlete, detective ninjas.

I love Batman, and my wife's favourite TV show is Person of Interest,
which has basically split Batman into two people the fighter/detective
and the scientist/genius/billionaire, and even that is a bit far-fetched.

Anyway Feel free to read or ignore what follows. It is not a personal attack, on you or your taste, but it is a rebuttal of your assertion.

Your statement

"Adults are over the impossible of classical, fantasy superheroes and looking forward what's doable and still inside the realism sphere."

is simply not correct.

Personally, I'd rather be Superman than Steve Jobs or Barack Obama any day. And, personally, I prefer escapist entertainment, because if I want to see what's possible, I turn on the news.
I suspect the billions of Harry Potter fans are with me on that one, btw, many of them are adults, although I don't like Harry Potter, so perhaps Lord of the Rings is a better analogy. When I last visited the Weta cave, there were a lot more adults in there than kids.

Anyway, if Adults were really over such things (let's pretend Harry Potter didn't exist), WBros and Disney would not have an audience for their super-hero films, (the billion dollars made by the Avengers say otherwise) or the Fast and Furious films for that matter, which violate Newtonian laws in the most outrageous ways. Or perhaps Star Wars, because lightsabres, telekinesis-precognition-telepathy (the Force), ghosts, aliens seem to be outside what's "doable". Didn't you like Star Wars, Chief Chirpa ? The argument that we like those things as kids
and then get over them, is equally fallacious, given the number of
adults who went to see the Star Wars prequels.

If you really want to go down that rabbit hole, you might consider how many adults conform to belief systems that involve omnipotent anthropomorphic beings, and demi-gods who can return to life, after being nailed to trees. Or the billion or so hindu, whose pantheon includes a god with an elephant head. By your argument, adults should be "over" that.


So, while you are completely entitled to like what you like, and more power to you, your assertion that unrealistic entertainment is not the domain of adults is thus not borne out by facts.

There are of course, plenty of adults who do not enjoy unrealistic escapism, but to make a general statement that adults are over such
things is utterly wrong.


QED
I don't see it to be condescending, but just speaking a slight fact that adults is less prone to get attached to fantastic entertainment, whether you want to admit or not. If grownups mind too much on fantasy, they would forget on the real issues easily - family, jobs, economy, social life. Adults have responsibilities (more so if they have families) and instill a self-compass on what adds benefit to their life or not. Entertainment is just what it is; to intersperse your daily routines only if it's needed. But entertainment can't be the norm unless you make a living out of it or you're still a minor. Children? Yes children could have more "playtime" (read: entertainment) than adults because they are not expected to have responsibilities at their ages. Children don't work, study, or achieve much on anything that could only happen if they cut back their "playtime".

I don't suppose you could say most HP fans are adults. Potter is last decade phenom and it's public knowledge that their core fans are tweens who have become young adults now. I doubt when they've become adults a majority of them still carry out their magic brooms. Star Wars geeks are SW geeks, also have grown ups now. Some become Convention-going SW geeks but that's not the norm. My nickname was created a decade ago and I have a passing interest on Starwars. Yes I do like escapist entertainment, but no I'm not madly in love with it so I keep reading SW or any comics, having SW posters plastered on the wall or imaging myself in a Stormtroopers suit while working.

Please don't go with religion == Superman/fictional supernatural stories, people are sensitive on that. Religion is not fiction to some, heck most people perhaps - including me.

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Old 11-04-2013, 10:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Both are equal, but MOS gets a slight edge, mainly because I'm a Supes fan.

But yea, Snyder could have done it better.

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Old 11-04-2013, 11:57 PM   #31
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Superman's first flight is probably the best scene in Man of Steel. A truly powerful moment.

But Iron Man is the better movie.

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Old 11-05-2013, 03:46 AM   #32
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Iron Man easy.There was more thrill in Reeve's first 10 second flight than in all of Cavill's 2 minutes.

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Old 11-05-2013, 04:41 AM   #33
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Cavill's flying didn't feel like anything, Iron man flying was one of the best scenes in that movie

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Old 11-05-2013, 10:49 AM   #34
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

I felt that the joy in the flying scene felt kinda forced.

I got a much more natural sense of it in MOS.

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Old 11-10-2013, 03:57 AM   #35
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefchirpa View Post
I don't see it to be condescending, but just speaking a slight fact that adults is less prone to get attached to fantastic entertainment, whether you want to admit or not. If grownups mind too much on fantasy, they would forget on the real issues easily - family, jobs, economy, social life. Adults have responsibilities (more so if they have families) and instill a self-compass on what adds benefit to their life or not. Entertainment is just what it is; to intersperse your daily routines only if it's needed. But entertainment can't be the norm unless you make a living out of it or you're still a minor. Children? Yes children could have more "playtime" (read: entertainment) than adults because they are not expected to have responsibilities at their ages. Children don't work, study, or achieve much on anything that could only happen if they cut back their "playtime".

I don't suppose you could say most HP fans are adults. Potter is last decade phenom and it's public knowledge that their core fans are tweens who have become young adults now. I doubt when they've become adults a majority of them still carry out their magic brooms. Star Wars geeks are SW geeks, also have grown ups now. Some become Convention-going SW geeks but that's not the norm. My nickname was created a decade ago and I have a passing interest on Starwars. Yes I do like escapist entertainment, but no I'm not madly in love with it so I keep reading SW or any comics, having SW posters plastered on the wall or imaging myself in a Stormtroopers suit while working.

Please don't go with religion == Superman/fictional supernatural stories, people are sensitive on that. Religion is not fiction to some, heck most people perhaps - including me.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this discussion, but it sounds like you're arguing that it's more acceptable for adults to be into something like Iron Man or Batman because they're more plausible characters, and that interest in fantasy characters like Superman or Luke Skywalker will lead to professional and social disarray. I don't see how it's a problem as long as one recognizes that they aren't real. I think people here should be recognizing the implausibility of characters like Batman as well instead of trumpeting them as being more sophisticated and mature just because the protagonist has no powers. You do realize that Batman routinely fights a shape-shifting mud-man and a human/bat hybrid, right? Fantasy has been part of pretty much every so-called realistic comic book character at DC and Marvel since their inception.

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Old 11-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #36
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Default Re: iron Man's first flight or Superman's (MOS) first Flight?

Iron Man, no question.

And it's a shame because I'll never forget that feeling I had watching MOS Trailer #2. The build up to the flight in the trailer was more emotional and more compelling than anything we got in the movie.

Had the movie been able to capture THAT tone and THAT feeling, then I'd say MOS.

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