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Old 11-20-2013, 04:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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TBH I always said the best way to deal with this 'issue' is just completely ignore it and let the audience deal with it.

Clark Kent wears glasses as a disguise. This is such a well known fact about Superman that I just don't see how anyone will bat an eye lid when it's in this film as well.

Any attempts at 'explaining' the disguise will actually draw MORE attention to how unrealistic it is.
I agree with this line of thinking.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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This is is additional proof, although none is really needed, that Goyer really didn't put that much (or even enough) thoughts into his screenplay. The way the secret identity thing was handled in the film is simply outrageous anyways.

When you fail to properly write or at least properly introduce something that is so integral to the character, it just means that you're not the right person for the job.
I guess the writers of Smallville we're lazy too huh? How about you write a screenplay and submit it to the WB. If they like it then we could see your Supes on screen in about 20 years. I just don't get all this hate on Goyer, like it's been said over and over he is a great idea man and he is obviously crafting a DCU on the big screen for us to enjoy. I just wish he had a hand in the Green Lantern movie, just imagine how much better that would have been.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:03 PM   #28
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

One of my biggest fears for this movie was that they would have gotten rid of the glasses disguise all together. I'm so happy they kept that inherently silly and cheeky part of the mythos, It's too lovable and integral to the whole Clark Kent/Superman thing to lose. I loved the last scene!

I don't really demand or crave an eleborate explanation for it either. A simple in-universe thing will due – as it has many times before.
I'm fine with quite a few people knowing the secret though, that's a nice way to ground it a little bit, without going too far and taking all the fun out of it.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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This is is additional proof, although none is really needed, that Goyer really didn't put that much (or even enough) thoughts into his screenplay. The way the secret identity thing was handled in the film is simply outrageous anyways.

When you fail to properly write or at least properly introduce something that is so integral to the character, it just means that you're not the right person for the job.
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He also made it seem that having Lois know his secret from before he even became Superman was a cop-out, because they wouldn't know how to pull off the Clark/Superman secret with her in play.

Seems lazy to me.
Why do they need to pull it off? Why not do something different?

They could just carbon copy everything that has been done before and dick the audience around with the dramatic irony but they chose to do the opposite. They decided the challenge the idea and give us an actual relationship between Lois and Clark one that hasn't been seen on the big screen. They have a real partnership now and their adoration for each other is based on who they actually are and not God-like hero and lovesick girl that they've have been portrayed as for decades.

Their decision to go against what's been done before is the opposite of lazy.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:07 PM   #30
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I guess the writers of Smallville we're lazy too huh? How about you write a screenplay and submit it to the WB. If they like it then we could see your Supes on screen in about 20 years. I just don't get all this hate on Goyer, like it's been said over and over he is a great idea man and he is obviously crafting a DCU on the big screen for us to enjoy. I just wish he had a hand in the Green Lantern movie, just imagine how much better that would have been.
That's a good one
Kudos for writing down the most stupid thing I had the displeasure to read on these boards for months.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:10 PM   #31
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Why do they need to pull it off? Why not do something different?

They could just carbon copy everything that has been done before and dick the audience around with the dramatic irony but they chose to do the opposite. They decided the challenge the idea and give us an actual relationship between Lois and Clark one that hasn't been seen on the big screen. They have a real partnership now and their adoration for each other is based on who they actually are and not God-like hero and lovesick girl that they've have been portrayed as for decades.

Their decision to go against what's been done before is the opposite of lazy.

I really like this direction they're going in. I'm all for it, but unfortunately, I didn't see any "actual relationship" in this film.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Why do they need to pull it off? Why not do something different?

They could just carbon copy everything that has been done before and dick the audience around with the dramatic irony but they chose to do the opposite. They decided the challenge the idea and give us an actual relationship between Lois and Clark one that hasn't been seen on the big screen. They have a real partnership now and their adoration for each other is based on who they actually are and not God-like hero and lovesick girl that they've have been portrayed as for decades.

Their decision to go against what's been done before is the opposite of lazy.
I have no problem with the decision, I have no problem with changing a few things when you have to give your version of a story. The execution in the other hand is so lazy and lackluster that it diminished the impact of the changes they made. Had it been handled better I would have no problem with it at all.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Do what they did in birthright for Clark. Not complicated. Change his posture, mannerisms, make the voice a little higher, etc.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I have no problem with the decision, I have no problem with changing a few things when you have to give your version of a story. The execution in the other hand is so lazy and lackluster that it diminished the impact of the changes they made. Had it been handled better I would have no problem with it at all.
How was the execution lazy?

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I really like this direction they're going in. I'm all for it, but unfortunately, I didn't see any "actual relationship" in this film.

The foundations were put down for it though. A trust, friendship, attraction etc. You weren't expecting a full blown relationship were you?

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:13 PM   #36
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Originally Posted by Krumm View Post
Why do they need to pull it off? Why not do something different?

They could just carbon copy everything that has been done before and dick the audience around with the dramatic irony but they chose to do the opposite. They decided the challenge the idea and give us an actual relationship between Lois and Clark one that hasn't been seen on the big screen. They have a real partnership now and their adoration for each other is based on who they actually are and not God-like hero and lovesick girl that they've have been portrayed as for decades.

Their decision to go against what's been done before is the opposite of lazy.
Based on the way Goyer described it as a 'way out' to avoid issues with Lois and the Clark/Superman identity, I'd describe it as lazy.

And unfortunately that supposed relationship never came to pass onscreen. The film took a lot of heat for the dynamic between them being completely forced and contrived. Personally I think a lot of that has to do with Lois knowing from before he even became Superman. It nullified any tension between the characters and we ended up with a very stale 'relationship.'


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TBH I always said the best way to deal with this 'issue' is just completely ignore it and let the audience deal with it.

Clark Kent wears glasses as a disguise. This is such a well known fact about Superman that I just don't see how anyone will bat an eye lid when it's in this film as well.

Any attempts at 'explaining' the disguise will actually draw MORE attention to how unrealistic it is.
That may work for comicbook fans who are already used to that kind of thing. But for general audiences, not so much. Letting the audience 'deal with it' is a lazy approach from the men supposedly committed to "redefining" Superman and making him modern and accessible to general audiences.


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I guess the writers of Smallville we're lazy too huh? How about you write a screenplay and submit it to the WB. If they like it then we could see your Supes on screen in about 20 years. I just don't get all this hate on Goyer, like it's been said over and over he is a great idea man and he is obviously crafting a DCU on the big screen for us to enjoy. I just wish he had a hand in the Green Lantern movie, just imagine how much better that would have been.
Really? You're using the writing on CW's Smallville has an echelon of quality?

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #37
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I really like this direction they're going in. I'm all for it, but unfortunately, I didn't see any "actual relationship" in this film.
I guess I'm speaking of their relationship going forward. I considered their relationship in MOS as merely a crush.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:19 PM   #38
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The foundations were put down for it though. A trust, friendship, attraction etc. You weren't expecting a full blown relationship were you?
Given where the characters were at and the overall timeline of the film, that would be a ridiculous expectation, but the fact that the foundations were only just put down, made the kiss ring hollow. We all understand that there needs to be a kiss between the two leads in a superhero summer blockbuster, but given the context of the relationship up to that point and the situation, it didn't really feel appropriate or meaningful. Know what I mean? This is why I'm worried about Batman being a major player in the next film, a LOT less time to focus on Lois & Clark...

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:21 PM   #39
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Allow me...

my work is done here. Need more??





any questions?

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:22 PM   #40
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Based on the way Goyer described it as a 'way out' to avoid issues with Lois and the Clark/Superman identity, I'd describe it as lazy.

And unfortunately that supposed relationship never came to pass onscreen. The film took a lot of heat for the dynamic between them being completely forced and contrived. Personally I think a lot of that has to do with Lois knowing from before he even became Superman. It nullified any tension between the characters and we ended up with a very stale 'relationship.'
He was putting to rest a point of contention by the GA and found a more interesting way to tell their story. Doing the same old thing is lazy.

And who gave it a lot of heat? I thought their relationship was good on screen. I completely bought their attraction to each other and why they would have a crush on one another.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:23 PM   #41
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Given where the characters were at and the overall timeline of the film, that would be a ridiculous expectation, but the fact that the foundations were only just put down, made the kiss ring hollow. We all understand that there needs to be a kiss between the two leads in a superhero summer blockbuster, but given the context of the relationship up to that point and the situation, it didn't really feel appropriate or meaningful. Know what I mean? This is why I'm worried about Batman being a major player in the next film, a LOT less time to focus on Lois & Clark...

The kiss is a heat of the moment thing. You just survived being pulled into the Phantom Zone and before that the destruction of the planet. I could forgive a kiss if that happened. Heck If I survived I'd be kissing anything near me.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:23 PM   #42
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Originally Posted by Vid Electricz View Post
Given where the characters were at and the overall timeline of the film, that would be a ridiculous expectation, but the fact that the foundations were only just put down, made the kiss ring hollow. We all understand that there needs to be a kiss between the two leads in a superhero summer blockbuster, but given the context of the relationship up to that point and the situation, it didn't really feel appropriate or meaningful. Know what I mean? This is why I'm worried about Batman being a major player in the next film, a LOT less time to focus on Lois & Clark...

Based on Goyer's comments in the podcast interview I linked, I think their relationship happens offscreen and by BvS they'll be an established couple.

Personally I still want them to do more character focus with Clark/Superman. We barely know who he is and how he thinks. While Batman Begins was a character study on Wayne's psychology, MoS barely touched on Clark's. It was all surface.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Allow me...

my work is done here. Need more??





any questions?
Here's some more:

http://www.visualnews.com/2013/11/09...s-found-match/

People are mistaken for others all the time. And how many people get a good look at both Superman and Clark Kent?

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:25 PM   #44
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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That may work for comicbook fans who are already used to that kind of thing. But for general audiences, not so much. Letting the audience 'deal with it' is a lazy approach from the men supposedly committed to "redefining" Superman and making him modern and accessible to general audiences.
No, i'm not just talking about comicbook fans. I think general audiences are used to that as his disguise, and honestly don't care that it wouldn't work in real life.

It'd be a bit more of a problem if they really had grounded the film in realism like they kept banging on about, but MOS was grounded in absolute fantasy IMO. There was very little of the real world in there for me.

Anything they try and include to justify the disguise is just going to get picked apart. People are going to rip into and discredit anything they say about why it would realistically work.

So why not just be open about the fact it doesn't, acknowledge that it's NOT the real world, and just let audiences enjoy the silliness of it.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Here's some more:

http://www.visualnews.com/2013/11/09...s-found-match/

People are mistaken for others all the time. And how many people get a good look at both Superman and Clark Kent?
Exactly. Will this end the debate? lol It should but it won't.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:30 PM   #46
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He was putting to rest a point of contention by the GA and found a more interesting way to tell their story. Doing the same old thing is lazy.
I agree that liberties should be taken and things should be changed to mix things up. Though, I'm not sure this specific change actually paid off in the way they wanted it to.

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And who gave it a lot of heat? I thought their relationship was good on screen. I completely bought their attraction to each other and why they would have a crush on one another.
I was reading through the critical reviews. It didn't seem like general audiences cared much for the 'relationship' either. The leads (or the film) didn't get any People's Choice Noms, or even Teen Choice ones. It didn't really make an impact.

For me personally, I thought the kissing scene was contrived and awkward mainly due to the placement of where it was. They are surrounded by a graveyard of death, destruction, and bloodsheed with thousands dead all around them.. and they kiss? That was jarring.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Here's some more:

http://www.visualnews.com/2013/11/09...s-found-match/

People are mistaken for others all the time. And how many people get a good look at both Superman and Clark Kent?
It really depends on the context of where MoS is going.

I agree that if Superman remains in the shadows as a "Red-Blue" Blur, this entire conversation would be moot. If Superman is a public figure though, as he is traditionally portrayed, then it would be hard to swallow that no one in Metropolis (especially in a building full of journalists) would recognize him as Superman. Added to that is the fact that everyone in the world is aware that Superman lives among us as a human. Zod's message gave that away.

Maybe he will remain in the shadows in the MoS universe. Perhaps that's why we have no Jimmy Olsen existing and taking photos of Superman.


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No, i'm not just talking about comicbook fans. I think general audiences are used to that as his disguise, and honestly don't care that it wouldn't work in real life.

It'd be a bit more of a problem if they really had grounded the film in realism like they kept banging on about, but MOS was grounded in absolute fantasy IMO. There was very little of the real world in there for me.

Anything they try and include to justify the disguise is just going to get picked apart. People are going to rip into and discredit anything they say about why it would realistically work.

So why not just be open about the fact it doesn't, acknowledge that it's NOT the real world, and just let audiences enjoy the silliness of it.
I'm pretty sure the intent was to ground the film in real-world logic, despite there being super-powered aliens present. Goyer's approach was 'what if this happened in the real world' according to that interview.

The execution of that idea, however, was somewhat sloppy so I understand why some see the film as 'absolute fantasy' and 'silliness.' I still think they have to respect the intelligence of the audience a bit more with this idea and at least give them a baseline explanation as to how the identity will work within the context of the MoS world.


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Old 11-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #48
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Based on Goyer's comments in the podcast interview I linked, I think their relationship happens offscreen and by BvS they'll be an established couple.
That's fine, I guess...as long as we get some more substance to it.

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Personally I still want them to do more character focus with Clark/Superman. We barely know who he is and how he thinks. While Batman Begins was a character study on Wayne's psychology, MoS barely touched on Clark's. It was all surface.
So true. This is why I feel Supes NEEDS another solo film (and at least one for Batman) before jumping headfirst into this team-up/vs. stuff. There simply won't be any way to give us (the audience) any truly satisfying character work with TWO iconic lead roles vying for screentime.

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Old 11-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #49
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Anything they try and include to justify the disguise is just going to get picked apart. People are going to rip into and discredit anything they say about why it would realistically work.

So why not just be open about the fact it doesn't, acknowledge that it's NOT the real world, and just let audiences enjoy the silliness of it.
This may be the best argument for leaving it out entirely.
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Based on Goyer's comments in the podcast interview I linked, I think their relationship happens offscreen and by BvS they'll be an established couple.
I won't be able to listen to this until later, but what did he say if you don't mind me asking.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:38 PM   #50
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I agree that liberties should be taken and things should be changed to mix things up. Though, I'm not sure this specific change actually paid off in the way they wanted it to.



I was reading through the critical reviews. It didn't seem like general audiences cared much for the 'relationship' either. The leads (or the film) didn't get any People's Choice Noms, or even Teen Choice ones. It didn't really make an impact.

For me personally, I thought the kissing scene was contrived and awkward mainly due to the placement of where it was. They are surrounded by a graveyard of death, destruction, and bloodsheed with thousands dead all around them.. and they kiss? That was jarring.
Actually Supes/Lois went to a recount with the Twilight couple for an award not sure which and you know how rabid those folks are.

http://http://www.henrycavillnews.co...-dethrone.html

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