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Old 11-20-2013, 06:46 PM   #76
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Originally Posted by smallville fan View Post
Well in the Smallville show, pretty much anyone who's seen Clark without the glasses are either:

a)The core cast and allies e.g. Lois, Chloe etc
b)In Belle Reve and declared insane e.g. Every meteor freak from Season 1
c)Dead e.g. Jimmy Henry James Olsen, Lionel Luthor
d)Amnesia e.g. Lex Luthor

Did I miss anyone?
The entire staff of the Daily Planet who have seen him without the glasses for several seasons and Perry, Cat etc

Everyone at the wedding who saw Clark Kent walk down the isle without glasses or the bumbling persona. This was the same day Superman was revealed to the world.

The problem with Smallville is they introduced the bumbling persoa and glasses way too late in the game for them to make sense. Enough people had already seen the real Clark Kent before.

I feel like the only way to enjoy CW's Smallville is with selective amnesia.

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Old 11-20-2013, 06:52 PM   #77
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Well in the Smallville show, pretty much anyone who's seen Clark without the glasses are either:

a)The core cast and allies e.g. Lois, Chloe etc
b)In Belle Reve and declared insane e.g. Every meteor freak from Season 1
c)Dead e.g. Jimmy Henry James Olsen, Lionel Luthor
d)Amnesia e.g. Lex Luthor

Did I miss anyone?
Like pretty much everyone he's met in Smallville, in Metropolis, and the DP.

They even tried to make it seem like he was a dork/nobody in high school with the reunion episode. It's hard to forget a guy who dated the most popular girl in school, was the high school quarterback at some point and lead the school to a championship, and was best friends with one of the most famous people in the world. And that's all before spending much time in Metropolis, working with people at the DP, having a wedding, etc.

SV and MOS seemed to make things more harder for Clark to hide in plain sight to me.

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Old 11-20-2013, 07:02 PM   #78
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

I think people are putting too much on it. They'll find a way out, or the quirks we have just won't even be addressed, and that will be that. I'm not too concerned about this to be honest.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:12 PM   #79
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

they could've done this and made it so believable:

young reporter clark kent travels the world to tell the stories of others, while trying to decipher his own origins, something that was his father's dying wish for him. while taking odd jobs to make ends meet, he uncovers something that will change his life forever...

then at the end they are at the grave, and he tells martha that he finally got his dream job at the planet, and she mentions how people are going to recognize him as superman, and they find jonathon's glasses, and he wears them. boom.


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Old 11-20-2013, 07:32 PM   #80
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

In MOS, with facial recognition software, the military would know who he was right away.

Not to mention that the Kryptonians go the Kent's farm, etc.

But I really don't care that they didn't go there.

It's also ridiculous that nobody knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, even in the Nolanverse, but I'm totally fine with it. It's just just one of those fun nonsensical things that's part of superheroes: that nobody can figure out who they really are despite how obvious it always is.

--------

As for how they treat the Daily Planet stuff, I'll be fine with a number of ways:

1. They use the realistic route that everyone starts to recognize him on his first day.

2. It's explained why they wouldn't recognize him, etc, and they try to play it straight and make it believable to the audience.

3. They sell the realistic explanation in-universe, but it's played for laughs with the audience, where it's extremely obvious.


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Old 11-20-2013, 07:32 PM   #81
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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they could've done this and made it so believable:

young reporter clark kent travels the world to tell the stories of others, while trying to decipher his own origins, something that was his father's dying wish for him. while taking odd jobs to make ends meet, he uncovers something that will change his life forever...

then at the end they are at the grave, and he tells martha that he finally got his dream job at the planet, and she mentions how people are going to recognize him as superman, and they find jonathon's glasses, and he wears them. boom.

They could have done tons to make it more believable. Personally, I would have had Clark as a well-established low level Daily Planet worker from the start of the film. Everyone at the DP perceived him as a quiet, introvert. A loner. A nerdy researcher type.

Then when Superman debuts, no one would think to give a second glance at Clark, since everyone at the DP already perceived him a certain way.

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Old 11-20-2013, 07:34 PM   #82
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

That wasn't the story they were trying to tell. In the beginning they are selling you Clark's isolation as a drifter looking for his heritage. That wouldn't have worked if he was a reporter.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:37 PM   #83
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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It's also ridiculous that nobody knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, even in the Nolanverse, but I'm totally fine with it. It's just just one of those silly things that's part of the story.
Nolanverse had some issues in that department, but the comics don't really have that issue for the most part (other than the whole "I've been funding Batman this whole time and will fund his project" part of Batman Inc).

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Old 11-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #84
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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That wasn't the story they were trying to tell. In the beginning they are selling you Clark's isolation as a drifter looking for his heritage. That wouldn't have worked if he was a reporter.
I liked the way it was handled in Birthright with Clark traveling the world as a freelance writer.

I wasn't a fan of his homeless drifter look in MOS.

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Old 11-20-2013, 07:41 PM   #85
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Wow. Something as simple as "Clark wears glasses" has turned into "How do we make this work?"
--
Why does Bruce Wayne have one butler? Wayne Manor's pretty big, no way that old coot could possibly keep it in good condition. Let's give him a full staff of butlers. Younger, sexier. We gotta make people believe this could happen in the real world!

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Old 11-20-2013, 07:46 PM   #86
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Wow. Something as simple as "Clark wears glasses" has turned into "How do we make this work?"
--
Why does Bruce Wayne have one butler? Wayne Manor's pretty big, no way that old coot could possibly keep it in good condition. Let's give him a full staff of butlers. Younger, sexier. We gotta make people believe this could happen in the real world!
And knowing Bruce Wayne they will be all Playboy girls you know got to keep up the pretense.

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Old 11-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #87
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I liked the way it was handled in Birthright with Clark traveling the world as a freelance writer.

I wasn't a fan of his homeless drifter look in MOS.
Birthright is great, but considering what they were showing us about his childhood and the fact he never really fit in. I bought the drifter routine more than I would have a freelance writer. It made him seem more lost and alone to be drifting from place to place, then gallivanting around seeing the world like in BR.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 07:55 PM   #88
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Well he's 33 at that point.

He could have gone to college and been a working writer for nearly a decade for all we know.

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Old 11-20-2013, 08:26 PM   #89
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Doubt it would happen, and its still a big logical jump like people having no clue at all who he is, but I still quite like the idea people *know* Clark is Superman, but let him live his double life. The big-time trust factor. Superman is all about trust. The Daily Planet staff honoured to have him around their workplace and go along with his act.

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Old 11-20-2013, 08:39 PM   #90
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

He's going to have a secret identity. I can't see them doing it like Iron Man. That just wouldn't work. I think they'll find some way to work it out, or they just wont address the things we noticed. We're probably making more of deal of it then it really needs to be anyway...lol

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 08:47 PM   #91
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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That wasn't the story they were trying to tell. In the beginning they are selling you Clark's isolation as a drifter looking for his heritage. That wouldn't have worked if he was a reporter.
They already did the drifter thing with Bruce in Batman Begins. I didn't care to see it again. MoS Clark wasn't even drifting with a specific purpose in mind. He only found the ship from being at the right place at the right time. It was a convenient coincidence.

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Old 11-20-2013, 08:50 PM   #92
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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They already did the drifter thing with Bruce in Batman Begins. I didn't care to see it again. MoS Clark wasn't even drifting with a specific purpose in mind. He only found the ship from being at the right place at the right time. It was a convenient coincidence.
Then unfortunately you watched the wrong movie because that is what they were going for.

Also, he was traveling for a specific reason. He was looking for evidence of UFOs and stuff like that. He also he had to move a lot because whenever he used his powers then he had to go. Simple.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:24 PM   #93
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

*edit

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Old 11-20-2013, 09:24 PM   #94
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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They already did the drifter thing with Bruce in Batman Begins. I didn't care to see it again. MoS Clark wasn't even drifting with a specific purpose in mind. He only found the ship from being at the right place at the right time. It was a convenient coincidence.

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Old 11-20-2013, 09:33 PM   #95
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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They already did the drifter thing with Bruce in Batman Begins. I didn't care to see it again. MoS Clark wasn't even drifting with a specific purpose in mind. He only found the ship from being at the right place at the right time. It was a convenient coincidence.

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Old 11-20-2013, 09:36 PM   #96
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

That gif really does never get old...lol

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-20-2013, 09:39 PM   #97
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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It's more about logic. We have to believe that these characters aren't idiots. Kal needs to do something drastically different with Clark in order to make him be divergent from the public Superman identity.

He didn't really do anything with it in that last scene. No change in voice or mannerisms. No change in hair. Etc. It was hard to buy.
It's not about logic, though. It's about suspension of disbelief and the beauty/inherent sadness/relevance of someone being overlooked because most people can't or don't look below the surface of a person. That's always what the concept has been about.

It has never been about LOGICALLY being able to fool people with a pair of glasses, a different hairstyle, slouching, etc.

And you can apply logic to anything. That doesn't invalidate the strength of the actual concept as a storytelling device.

As for them not doing anythng with it...Clark Kent in that final scene didn't exactly scream "Superman" to me. So I think they did "do something" with it, albeit in a more subtle sense than we're historically used to. We just haven't seen Clark's whole "plan" for blending in. Which makes sense, since that sequence is essentially just a tease to say "See, Clark has a plan for blending in".

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Old 11-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #98
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No but you have Goyer admitting in an interview, that is pretty much the subject of this thread mind you, that he didn't plan to make "Report Clark" work in the context of the franchise. Which is in my mind a lazy approach of the character since Clark Kent is kind of important in his own way.
Now if he didn't seemed so embarassed with this idea to the point where he barely had (Reporter) Clark Kent involved in a Superman origin story (which I still find at the very least debatable by the way) and is now confessing that he had no idea how to make the persona work, I wouldn't be concerned.

It's pretty simple actually, if he is not up to the task, if he really is unable to make something so important from the Superman mythos work within the context he created, if he can't thoroughly think out of the box and go through with his own ideas instead of just writing himself into a corner after one freaking movie, then I'm pretty sure he can find some other ways to occupy his free time

Or like I said don't jump to conclusions and avoid stock prepared answers.
I talked about the secret identity thing and never mentionned Lois or a departure from the comics.
How is that a lazy approach? The whole point of Man of Steel was that it was grounded in realism. Meaning, you can't have bumbling idiot Clark and glasses disguise and expect people to not be a bit cynical of his actions. The logical conclusion would be to scrap the Clark Kent identity (mind you, this was something people expected until Man of Steel came out).
If you compare that to his previous work, Batman Begins, he's had it a bit easier then. With a character like Bruce Wayne, it's a easier because Bruce intentionally acts like a careless, spoiled, rich guy and that throws off any suspicion people might have for thinking he's Batman. Clark doesn't have that luxury. Also, his face is plastered over the news as Superman. Who's to say that if it was scrapped, that maybe Goyer had a different plan in mind? We will never know.

Also, why would it be any grounds for concern? MOS is a ground zero film in which Kal-El's identity is to be explored before he can accept his "humanity" (for lack of a better term). The whole Clark Kent dichotomy in an origins story is beaten to death (SR to a lesser extent, and SI). Though, what's especially interesting is that the older movies overemphasized the Clark Kent side while ignoring the implications of his alien lineage. On the other hand, this film is placing more emphasis on the alien side than the human side. It's a breath of fresh air.

Again, you're extrapolating too early and jumping the gun. All writers have some kind of difficulty at some point, especially in blockbusters. The most famous being that Nolan and Goyer had no idea how to progress the story in the third act of TDKR. Does that mean that Goyer and Nolan aren't up to task because they had writer's block and couldn't figure out how to conclude Bruce's character arc? I'll leave that up to debate.


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Old 11-20-2013, 09:51 PM   #99
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Nevermind that they spent a good deal of the film showing WHY he would need a secret identity, given Lois' investigation, etc.

Lazy? Hardly.

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Old 11-20-2013, 09:58 PM   #100
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

The only thing I do wonder about is they did clearly say Lois knew his secret identity. I don't know if that was deliberate to set her up to be kidnapped or what, but that was a pretty bold move. It does make me wonder if it was deliberate for the overall DCU plot, or just particular to this movie. Unless they just ignore that fact in the next movie and forget that people actually know she knows who Superman really is.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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