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View Poll Results: Who's side are you on?
Fox - quicksilver belongs with the x-men 14 15.38%
Marvel - quicksilver belongs with the avengers 43 47.25%
Neither - I never want Quicksilver to appear 8 8.79%
Both 26 28.57%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:17 PM   #51
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

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Do you have any actual evidence that Singer did that just to piss off Marvel, because I have yet to see any? If you don't, then don't even go there. The script for DOFP was finished LONG before the AOU writing even began. I've seen nothing to indicate that this wasn't always Singer's intention, just people jumping to conclusions.
Agree 100%. It's a totally biased way of thinking. Singer announced Evan Peters as Quicksilver like what? One week after Whedon? Not only the script was ready months before that but they had already started filming for six weeks. And in that week they sat down decided to put Quicksilver in just to "spite Marvel", rewrote the script to include him and found an actor to portray him. Really? Seriously that's not how movie business work. Is it an absolutely impossible scenario? I guess stranger things have happened. But is it the most logical assumption? Definitely not. Both studios probably sat down and discussed this long before we found out about it. The rest is just foolish talk and prejudice.

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:37 PM   #52
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

Plus Singer has never struck be as the type of guy to be that petty, especially not with such and expensive and high-profile studio film.

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:40 PM   #53
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Why can't we have both?

The entire premise of this thread is silly. Singer has already said before that Quicksilver was one character he's been wanting to work with. Heck, the character was originally in First Class but then was dropped. Not to mention, we've gotten word that QS plays into the character drama of DOFP.

The idea that they placed him in DOFP at the last minute to piss off Marvel is fanboy wank in order to stoke the flames between studios.

We've seriously turned into 13 year old girls fighting over which boy band is better. And all over what character? Quicksilver?

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Old 11-17-2013, 07:40 PM   #54
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Very nice.

I'd say Marvel's track record is pretty similar. Its "Captain" or "Captain Rogers" most often, "Stark" or "Mr. Stark" pretty exclusively. Agent Romanoff, never Black Widow. Agent Barton, unless addressed by Black Widow. And of course, THOR! :P

And villains are worse. Vanko, Stane, Blonsky, Schmidt. I wouldnt say either the Singer or Whedon camp is more likely of using the proper codenames.
Actually, Black Widow was referred to by her codename ONCE in the MCU. It was in her introduction scene in TA. The Russian Mob guy who was "interrogating" her referred to her as "the famous Black Widow." Hawkeye was referred to as "the Hawk" by Dr. Selvig.

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Old 11-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #55
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I would have preferred that both the twins stayed with X-Men, because I am one who thinks that Diversity is sorely needed for Avengers 2. I would have preferred one of War Machine or Falcon to join the Avengers in Qucksilver's place and replace SW with someone else like Monica Rambeau.

Too late because I don't think Falcon or War Machine will be in Avengers 2 and I don't think we'll ever see Monica in the MCU. Sadly, the team will not be diverse.

They (Marvel Studios) needs to fix the diversity issue on the Avengers. I hope that happens for Avengers 3. Feige and Whedon are not stupid and they know this is an issue, or at least I hope they do.

They can easily fix it by announcing Don Cheadle and/or Anthony Mackie will be in Age of Ultron and announce Black Panther.
This is a good point

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Old 11-18-2013, 11:13 AM   #56
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

Neither
Nothing against Quicksilver (as long as they don't use Ultimate version), but I hate his sister Wanda

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Old 11-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #57
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

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Why can't we have both?

The entire premise of this thread is silly. Singer has already said before that Quicksilver was one character he's been wanting to work with. Heck, the character was originally in First Class but then was dropped. Not to mention, we've gotten word that QS plays into the character drama of DOFP.

The idea that they placed him in DOFP at the last minute to piss off Marvel is fanboy wank in order to stoke the flames between studios.

We've seriously turned into 13 year old girls fighting over which boy band is better. And all over what character? Quicksilver?
All of this.

I was already weary of the constant "evil Fox" jargon, now we're asked to choose "sides."

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Old 11-18-2013, 04:31 PM   #58
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...what?

Sorry, but you do know that the Maximoffs originated in the X-Men continuity? Like, they share deep ties with that continuity. It's where they come from, and there are plenty of stories with them in it.

Yes, they are tied to the Avengers universe too, but that does not take away the fact they're still X-Men characters.

As for what "side" I'm on, I could care less. I love the X-Men and Avengers films a lot, so as long as the films are good, I don't care.
so you do care? Or do you mean you couldn't care less?

confused.

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Every time I read someone say this I literally writhe on the inside.

Wanda and Pietro are NOT X-Men characters. This piece of misinformation based off of lack of knowledge on the characters' histories is annoying as hell to me. They are mutants, they are not X-Men characters. The reason Fox can use them is because they are mutants, not because they are X-Men characters. They are by every sense and context of the word, Avengers characters. Yes, they first appeared in X-Men, but that does not make them X-Men characters. The Inhumans, Black Panther, Ronan, and Nova Corps all appeared in Fantastic Four first, that does not make them Fantastic Four characters.

The Maximoffs are not just tied to the Avengers, they ARE Avengers. They're the oldest Avengers sans the original team. They have been Avengers for over 40 years. They have never been X-Men. They are in literally hundreds of Avengers issues and only a couple dozen X-Men issues. They've only recently even become heavily involved in X-Men storylines. What's happened in the past decade was NOT the status quo of the comics before then. The stuff with House of M and Avengers vs. X-Men is the most Wanda has ever been involved with X-Men.

Their ties with the X-Men do not run deep at all and are superficial at best. They were a part of the first incarnation of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants for 3-4 issues and then left. They were not integral at all. Until they became Magneto's children 20 years after they were first introduced they didn't even have any real connections to anything going on in the X-verse.

Simply put, the twins belong with the Avengers. Their origin can only be told by Marvel, They are historically Avengers characters and have very little interaction with the X-Men. There are decades of material with them being Avengers and AT BEST a couple years worth of them even being involved with X-Men storylines, let alone being a part of them. Fox cannot do the characters as they are from the comics justice whatsoever. They would be different people if they were to be used in X-Men films.
w0w

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^ Don't even bother trying to explain, people are just going to keep thinking what they want.

All this misinformation and misunderstandings of the Maximoffs are so annoying to us who know the history of the characters though. I was just watchign AMC Movie Talk and that Campea guy went on a rant about how Marvel is being stupid by having the twins in the Avengers because they don't belong there and are X-Men characters.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


Lol don't take that guy seriously, he's a joke.

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it's not a matter of "trying to explain," a lot of people realize the majority of QS and SW history belongs with Avengers.

But (and as the guy in the vid says) they are mutants. The have the x-gene. The x-gene is something that belongs in X-Men films. Avengers hasn't touched on it because they can't, and without it, they have to think up some other origin or no origin whatsoever. Those are my issues.

I think they need an origin. I think it should be an x-gene mutant origin. Therefore I think they should be in X-Men. That's as simple as it gets.

Even with cries of "Joss and Marvel will do the characters better!"


I dont care. Quicksilver is not so important to me.
The whole "marvel not allowed to mention mutations" thing is just so ridiculous. "mutation" covers pretty much everything. Does that mean that Marvel isn't allowed to acknowledge evolution as a scientific theory? Are they all creationists? so stupid.

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Old 11-18-2013, 05:31 PM   #59
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I think Fox has the copyright to the world "Mutants" not "Mutation" or "Mutant."

Fox has no claim to the word "Mutant" due to these guys:



Besides "Teenage Genetically Altered Ninja Turtles" does not roll of the tongue all that well. Otherwise, Fox would have stopped the movie from ever being made.

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Old 11-18-2013, 06:20 PM   #60
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Fox has the word "Mutant(s)" trademarked in context to the entire Marvel Universe. So Marvel Studios could say that Wanda & Pietro (and any other character) have powers due to their genes or whatever mutating since that's pretty vague but they can't call them Mutants.

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Old 11-18-2013, 06:48 PM   #61
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Fox has the word "Mutant(s)" trademarked in context to the entire Marvel Universe. So Marvel Studios could say that Wanda & Pietro (and any other character) have powers due to their genes or whatever mutating since that's pretty vague but they can't call them Mutants.
oh well that's not so bad. I can't even see how that's an issue at all in that case.

They could just say "their abilities are a result of genetic mutation" or something. It doesn't really tie their hands at all.

I feel better now. What's all the fuss about anyway?

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Old 11-19-2013, 09:59 AM   #62
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

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I would have preferred that both the twins stayed with X-Men, because I am one who thinks that Diversity is sorely needed for Avengers 2. I would have preferred one of War Machine or Falcon to join the Avengers in Qucksilver's place and replace SW with someone else like Monica Rambeau.

Too late because I don't think Falcon or War Machine will be in Avengers 2 and I don't think we'll ever see Monica in the MCU. Sadly, the team will not be diverse.

They (Marvel Studios) needs to fix the diversity issue on the Avengers. I hope that happens for Avengers 3. Feige and Whedon are not stupid and they know this is an issue, or at least I hope they do.

They can easily fix it by announcing Don Cheadle and/or Anthony Mackie will be in Age of Ultron and announce Black Panther.
Why is it when people talk about diversity they only mention African American/black actors? (Like Feige did in an interview a few weeks ago.) If people really want diversity start clamoring for some Asian and Hispanic actors to be in these movies. Whites(obviously) and blacks are presented very well in all of these Marvel movies, everyone else, not so much.

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Old 11-19-2013, 10:42 AM   #63
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Double post

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Old 11-19-2013, 10:46 AM   #64
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The whole "marvel not allowed to mention mutations" thing is just so ridiculous. "mutation" covers pretty much everything. Does that mean that Marvel isn't allowed to acknowledge evolution as a scientific theory? Are they all creationists? so stupid.
I agree its ridiculous. But it's their legal restriction, not mine.

Thanks for bringing up a 6 month old post by the way.

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Old 11-19-2013, 01:36 PM   #65
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I'm not on anyone's side per say but just looking at the plot and the sheer number of characters in DOFP, i find it hard to imagine QS is going to get any significant development or characterization. If Whedon's crafts a more well-rounded and memorable QS simply because he can the give the character more attention and screentime, Singer could come out looking bad at the end of the day.

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Old 11-19-2013, 01:59 PM   #66
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

I just say both.

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Old 11-19-2013, 02:08 PM   #67
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

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I think Fox has the copyright to the world "Mutants" not "Mutation" or "Mutant."

Fox has no claim to the word "Mutant" due to these guys:



Besides "Teenage Genetically Altered Ninja Turtles" does not roll of the tongue all that well. Otherwise, Fox would have stopped the movie from ever being made.
If they did have the copyright on the word, TMNT wouldn't be covered by it. Just because "Target" is copyrighted by the store doesn't mean I can't call my gym "Target Fitness."

And the film rights aren't to the word, they're to the full concept. Marvel can't give the film rights to "Spider-Man" to Sony and then turn around and make a brand new superhero called "Spider-Man." Neither can they make up new superheroes and call them "Mutants." Unless any company can make up new superheroes and call them mutants without violating the intellectual property that Marvel has that they sold the film rights to.

((Edit: I re-read this, and this paragraph doesn't actually make much sense the way I wrote it, and I'm not sure if it even addresses what you're saying anymore, so, yeah, sorry about that.))

They'll use the brain slot from IM3, good times, no worries.

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Old 11-19-2013, 03:36 PM   #68
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Default Re: Who's side are you on?

I feel like people have really overlooked the brain slot when it pertains to Quicksilver/Scarlet Witch. It is the most obvious route to go and it just makes sense.

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Old 11-20-2013, 01:22 AM   #69
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Why is it when people talk about diversity they only mention African American/black actors? (Like Feige did in an interview a few weeks ago.) If people really want diversity start clamoring for some Asian and Hispanic actors to be in these movies. Whites(obviously) and blacks are presented very well in all of these Marvel movies, everyone else, not so much.
I think if you're going out of your way to have diversity then you're already going the wrong direction. Just pick the best people for the best parts.

It's pretty much affirmative action, and that's beyond stupid.

Unfortunately in the world we live in the ignorant masses (ie Americans) will think everything is "racist" at the drop of a hat and this is just another one of the things that the studios have to pander to.

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Old 11-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #70
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It's not pandering or being ignorant if people want more representation on the big screen. Especially from Marvel, a company that has prided themselves on having a very diverse foundation of characters since it's creation.

We're now seven movies deep into the Marvel movie universe and:

- Never had an African-American character be more than a supporting role outside of Nick Fury

- Never had any Hispanic, Asian (or other minority) character in a lead or supporting role that I can remember, although I could be wrong.

- Outside of Black Widow, never had any female character outside of a supporting role or playing the girlfriend or damsel in distress to the main character.

I'm not saying this is a problem specifically for Marvel Studios - it's a Hollywood/media wide problem - but it's not wrong to point these things out.

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Old 11-21-2013, 03:47 AM   #71
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It's not pandering or being ignorant if people want more representation on the big screen. Especially from Marvel, a company that has prided themselves on having a very diverse foundation of characters since it's creation.

We're now seven movies deep into the Marvel movie universe and:

- Never had an African-American character be more than a supporting role outside of Nick Fury

- Never had any Hispanic, Asian (or other minority) character in a lead or supporting role that I can remember, although I could be wrong.

- Outside of Black Widow, never had any female character outside of a supporting role or playing the girlfriend or damsel in distress to the main character.

I'm not saying this is a problem specifically for Marvel Studios - it's a Hollywood/media wide problem - but it's not wrong to point these things out.
People saying that it is a "problem" is exactly what I'm talking about. If the most suitable person for a role is black, Asian or white then that's what they are. Going out of your way to choose actors of certain races is not only suboptimal, it's arguably even racist.

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Old 11-21-2013, 06:40 AM   #72
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Anyway Anthony Mackie is gonna be falcon, they made Heimdall a black guy (awesome actor), Hogun is Asian, I think their doing pretty well in the diversity department anyway.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:01 PM   #73
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Anyway Anthony Mackie is gonna be falcon, they made Heimdall a black guy (awesome actor), Hogun is Asian, I think their doing pretty well in the diversity department anyway.
Out of the six Avengers six of them are white. That's not "pretty well". That's "antebellum south".

I, for one, absolutely love the actors we have in all four "big" roles right now and think they are perfect for their given roles, but how many African-Americans do you think they auditioned for the role of, well, Captain America? How many folks who would be considered to have a middle easterner appearance do you think had even the smallest chance of landing the lead role in Thor? I would suggest that there is probably an Asian actor with the talent and charisma to have taken on the role of Stark but I don't even have to go that far because Banner has been played by three different actors in various quality roles that almost certainly could have been filled by others, and yet all three have been white.

The problem with saying that the best person should be chosen for any given role is that Hollywood almost always casts white, and then THAT gets tossed out as a defense. "Oh, but they were just casting the best possible actor!" The fact is that generations of prejudice have given rise to an unfair system so that even when an honest attempt to just cast the most talented actor is made white actors already have a step up over any minority actor in the same role. It's a cultural bias that is so deeply embedded that they have an undo amount of privileges inherent in the system.

Which is exactly why it's so vital for people to take notice of things like this and to demand change. Because what we have now is base on these little subconscious biases that, in some ways, are harder to deal with that all out racism. At this point if there was someone standing in a film studio saying "we're only going to cast white males for leads - those other people should be glad we're letting them be sidekicks in so many of these movies nowadays!" we could just call that person out and publicly shame them because we all know that is messed up. But no one is saying that. Instead it's predicated on things like "star power" and "biggest comic book name". Well, most of the stars are white males and most of the biggest superheroes are white males because most of our culture is based on old, outdated ideas. The only way to get change is to invite it.

Plus, Black Panther looks so awesome. And he can climb walls! He's like Spider-man if Spider-man were a cat! And king of his own country! So nothing like Spider-man, that's fair.

Sidenote-That-Is-Actually-On-Topic: I had the strangest crush on Quicksilver when I was a kid (I also have this thing about sibling relationships in media - maybe it's just that I'm an older sister myself). I am still in shock that he's in two live action movies. Has he even been in non-live action films? My only regret is that we'll never see Stark and him get into a pissing match over whose father failed them more. Le sigh. But, yeah, I haven't really seen an X-film since X3, and I'm still cool with them sharing.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:58 PM   #74
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Out of the six Avengers six of them are white. That's not "pretty well". That's "antebellum south".

I, for one, absolutely love the actors we have in all four "big" roles right now and think they are perfect for their given roles, but how many African-Americans do you think they auditioned for the role of, well, Captain America? How many folks who would be considered to have a middle easterner appearance do you think had even the smallest chance of landing the lead role in Thor? I would suggest that there is probably an Asian actor with the talent and charisma to have taken on the role of Stark but I don't even have to go that far because Banner has been played by three different actors in various quality roles that almost certainly could have been filled by others, and yet all three have been white.

The problem with saying that the best person should be chosen for any given role is that Hollywood almost always casts white, and then THAT gets tossed out as a defense. "Oh, but they were just casting the best possible actor!" The fact is that generations of prejudice have given rise to an unfair system so that even when an honest attempt to just cast the most talented actor is made white actors already have a step up over any minority actor in the same role. It's a cultural bias that is so deeply embedded that they have an undo amount of privileges inherent in the system.

Which is exactly why it's so vital for people to take notice of things like this and to demand change. Because what we have now is base on these little subconscious biases that, in some ways, are harder to deal with that all out racism. At this point if there was someone standing in a film studio saying "we're only going to cast white males for leads - those other people should be glad we're letting them be sidekicks in so many of these movies nowadays!" we could just call that person out and publicly shame them because we all know that is messed up. But no one is saying that. Instead it's predicated on things like "star power" and "biggest comic book name". Well, most of the stars are white males and most of the biggest superheroes are white males because most of our culture is based on old, outdated ideas. The only way to get change is to invite it.

Plus, Black Panther looks so awesome. And he can climb walls! He's like Spider-man if Spider-man were a cat! And king of his own country! So nothing like Spider-man, that's fair.

Sidenote-That-Is-Actually-On-Topic: I had the strangest crush on Quicksilver when I was a kid (I also have this thing about sibling relationships in media - maybe it's just that I'm an older sister myself). I am still in shock that he's in two live action movies. Has he even been in non-live action films? My only regret is that we'll never see Stark and him get into a pissing match over whose father failed them more. Le sigh. But, yeah, I haven't really seen an X-film since X3, and I'm still cool with them sharing.
I think Kevin Feige and Joss Whedon know this, but they can't just shoe horn "diversity" for the sake of diversity. It would have to fit the story. The best chance is Falcon appearing in Age of Ultron, and right now we don't know if that's actually going to happen.

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Old 11-24-2013, 06:47 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by gildedmuse View Post
Out of the six Avengers six of them are white. That's not "pretty well". That's "antebellum south".

I, for one, absolutely love the actors we have in all four "big" roles right now and think they are perfect for their given roles, but how many African-Americans do you think they auditioned for the role of, well, Captain America? How many folks who would be considered to have a middle easterner appearance do you think had even the smallest chance of landing the lead role in Thor? I would suggest that there is probably an Asian actor with the talent and charisma to have taken on the role of Stark but I don't even have to go that far because Banner has been played by three different actors in various quality roles that almost certainly could have been filled by others, and yet all three have been white.

The problem with saying that the best person should be chosen for any given role is that Hollywood almost always casts white, and then THAT gets tossed out as a defense. "Oh, but they were just casting the best possible actor!" The fact is that generations of prejudice have given rise to an unfair system so that even when an honest attempt to just cast the most talented actor is made white actors already have a step up over any minority actor in the same role. It's a cultural bias that is so deeply embedded that they have an undo amount of privileges inherent in the system.

Which is exactly why it's so vital for people to take notice of things like this and to demand change. Because what we have now is base on these little subconscious biases that, in some ways, are harder to deal with that all out racism. At this point if there was someone standing in a film studio saying "we're only going to cast white males for leads - those other people should be glad we're letting them be sidekicks in so many of these movies nowadays!" we could just call that person out and publicly shame them because we all know that is messed up. But no one is saying that. Instead it's predicated on things like "star power" and "biggest comic book name". Well, most of the stars are white males and most of the biggest superheroes are white males because most of our culture is based on old, outdated ideas. The only way to get change is to invite it.

Plus, Black Panther looks so awesome. And he can climb walls! He's like Spider-man if Spider-man were a cat! And king of his own country! So nothing like Spider-man, that's fair.
VVV

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJediBrah View Post
Unfortunately in the world we live in the ignorant masses (ie Americans) will think everything is "racist" at the drop of a hat and this is just another one of the things that the studios have to pander to.
trying to force diversity for the sake of diversity is going full retard. Most of the avengers are white characters. You wouldn't cast a black Thor anymore than you'd cast a white Shaft in a movie.

As much as most americans seem to want to believe, everyone isn't racist and picking on minorities. They are casting who's best. If anything it's actually the opposite, studios are going out of their way to cast minorities over equally/more qualified white people because of the cries of the ignorant public for "diversity".

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