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Old 11-21-2013, 11:20 AM   #176
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Well, who has the means to afford to be Batman? And out of those, who has to motivation to take on a one man crusade against justice? Maybe it's the billionaire who witnessed his parent's being murdered.
I never bought that "Bruce Wayne = rich thus he's Batman". He is far from being the only rich man in Gotham and there is also the possibility that Batman stole all that stuff. Plus in the DC universe, you don't need to be rich to be a superhero. Steel created his suit and isn't that rich AFAIK.

As for his parents' death, that's where the playboy act comes in. Everyone has their own way of coping with that and people think that's Bruce's way of coping with it. That's why no one would connect his behavior to Batman's.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:23 AM   #177
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

I think people are forgetting that in this universe, once Clark decides to show himself to the world, he's not as concerned about his real identity, it's not a priority to anybody to keep his identity secret now that he's announced himself to the world - he's a little more concerned with saving earth. The idea of him hiding in plain sight isn't born until the end, at which point maybe some consequences of his earlier lack of secrecy might arise in the sequels. Either way, it's hardly an important issue insofar as mos is concerned as a standalone film.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:29 AM   #178
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Regarding the new film series, the disguise works for one main reason: very few people besides Lois, Martha, and a select few soldiers ever saw Superman's face. In a world of over 7 billion, there's pretty good odds most wouldn't recognize him, let alone expect him to show up at the Daily Planet.
How about, the disguise be damned, most people know that the aliens were looking for Superman and went to the Kent house in Smallvile and only one man lives there that is Clark Kent who is a young strapping lad and even without photos fits the general description of Superman?

Do they even need to see them to make the call?

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:36 AM   #179
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I never bought that "Bruce Wayne = rich thus he's Batman". He is far from being the only rich man in Gotham and there is also the possibility that Batman stole all that stuff. Plus in the DC universe, you don't need to be rich to be a superhero. Steel created his suit and isn't that rich AFAIK.
It's deductive reasoning so it's a step by step process.

Doesn't Steel have his own company? And I believe in the New 52, he is an inventor working with the military so he is of a much higher profile.

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As for his parents' death, that's where the playboy act comes in. Everyone has their own way of coping with that and people think that's Bruce's way of coping with it. That's why no one would connect his behavior to Batman's.
And that's the point of the Clark Kent act.

I have no problem with the premise behind either alter-ego, but if Superman's is being called into question then so should Batman's.


Last edited by Krumm; 11-21-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 11-21-2013, 11:51 AM   #180
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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The way the movie did it, having Zod land at Clark's house and all practically paints it for the entire world.

Surely Goyer cannot explain that one away.

Which makes me realize, they really did not think this through at all
The world doesn't necessarily know that happened. Did you see any government forces surrounding the Kent farm? Anyone else but the aliens and Clark and his mother?

Wow. That was hard.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:54 AM   #181
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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It's a shame you lacked the ability to notice that Cavill demonstrated minimal acting range.
Simply not accurate. We saw Cavill's Clark go through a range of emotions in MAN OF STEEL.

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Old 11-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #182
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

I'm somewhat amused that people think that because Goyer didn't show the reporter Clark Kent until the end of the film, that this somehow means he doesn't care about that aspect of the character. Sort of like he and Nolan didn't care about The Joker because they saved hints at the character for the end of BATMAN BEGINS and the second film?

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:08 PM   #183
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Well, who has the means to afford to be Batman? And out of those, who has to motivation to take on a one man crusade against justice? Maybe it's the billionaire who witnessed his parent's being murdered.
It's easy to put the pieces together when you already know the answer...


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Old 11-21-2013, 12:08 PM   #184
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Simply not accurate. We saw Cavill's Clark go through a range of emotions in MAN OF STEEL.
Perhaps on paper, but the actual performance wasn't anything mind-blowing.

I'm not a fan of the older movies as much, but I have to admit that Reeve blew it out of the water in his first film. He performed. Showed real range. Owned the role. He had such conviction and authority behind his performance as Superman, yet he also showed caring and compassion in the role. Made us believe a man could fly. Really put effort into playing Clark and Superman as drastically different.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:13 PM   #185
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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I'm somewhat amused that people think that because Goyer didn't show the reporter Clark Kent until the end of the film, that this somehow means he doesn't care about that aspect of the character.

Huh? That's not the issue. The issue is that some have qualms with is the supposed lack of forward thinking as to how such an utterly absurd premise as the "Clark Kent disguise" would function in a "realistic" world that Snyder/Goyer have gone to great pains to establish.


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Sort of like he and Nolan didn't care about The Joker because they saved hints at the character for the end of BATMAN BEGINS and the second film?
How is using a character in a sequel at all comparable to the way a premise is meant to function given the internal logic of the world established? Not a very good comparison.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:16 PM   #186
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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It's easy to put the pieces together when you already know the answer...
Well I'm not saying it should dawn on everyone they second Batman hit the streets, but surely Gordon and some of the other detectives (whose job it is to put pieces together) could figure it out over the years.

And as I said later:

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I have no problem with the premise behind either alter-ego, but if Superman's is being called into question then so should Batman's.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:18 PM   #187
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Some of y'all are seriously overthinking this whole thing.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:18 PM   #188
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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The world doesn't necessarily know that happened. Did you see any government forces surrounding the Kent farm? Anyone else but the aliens and Clark and his mother?

Wow. That was hard.
Huh?

So the entire Metropolis battle happened in a day.

So the BBC and CNN will report it this way?

Classified aliens looking for a classified man went to a classified location first and then went to a classified street for a fight. And then they went in the middle of the city and leveled it by fighting?

Does Clark live in the middle of a desert? Wouldn't people all around see a UFO flying in the clear skies and stopping over a house?
Will you try to justify every single question raised against MOS?

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:19 PM   #189
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Some of y'all are seriously overthinking this whole thing.
This is serious business!

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:20 PM   #190
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Wouldn't this be the biggest news story in the history of mankind. Wouldn't it be dissected ad nauseum and every morsel of information analyzed millions of time in the media and online?

Edit: I meant aliens coming to earth, stopping at some very specific places etc.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #191
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Some of y'all are seriously overthinking this whole thing.
Thought was never the intention of the thread, it was merely created as another avenue to bash Goyer. Couldn't this have just been put in the "David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2?"

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:24 PM   #192
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Well I'm not saying it should dawn on everyone they second Batman hit the streets, but surely Gordon and some of the other detectives (whose job it is to put pieces together) could figure it out over the years.
Oh yeah, of course they would in "reality" (barring Gordon, who, in most iterations isn't really interested in investigating). The secret identity bit is just a minor suspension of disbelief element that you've got to accept for the story to work. I don't think it pushes the boundaries of the established "realism" in MOS too much...

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:47 PM   #193
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

Why is this a problem when they didnt introduce Clark as a reporter until the end of MOS +
Its problem for the next movie, I am sure they have an answer for it now .

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:55 PM   #194
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Perhaps on paper, but the actual performance wasn't anything mind-blowing.

I'm not a fan of the older movies as much, but I have to admit that Reeve blew it out of the water in his first film. He performed. Showed real range. Owned the role. He had such conviction and authority behind his performance as Superman, yet he also showed caring and compassion in the role. Made us believe a man could fly. Really put effort into playing Clark and Superman as drastically different.
As an actor, once I understood the craft better, I never found Reeve's performance mind blowing, either. The man just really seemed like Superman and Clark Kent.

Quote:
I'm not a fan of the older movies as much, but I have to admit that Reeve blew it out of the water in his first film. He performed. Showed real range. Owned the role. He had such conviction and authority behind his performance as Superman, yet he also showed caring and compassion in the role. Made us believe a man could fly. Really put effort into playing Clark and Superman as drastically different.
And to a lot of people, you can say the same thing about Cavill (and those who played Young Clark). He just wasn't playing the same version of the character as Reeve.

There's a world of difference between "His performance wasn't mind blowing" and "He showed minimal acting range".

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #195
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Huh? That's not the issue. The issue is that some have qualms with is the supposed lack of forward thinking as to how such an utterly absurd premise as the "Clark Kent disguise" would function in a "realistic" world that Snyder/Goyer have gone to great pains to establish.
The world isn't that realistic. And they DIDN'T go to "great paints" to establish a realistic world. This was a science fiction film.

They went to great pains to establish real CONFLICT for Superman. Not a "realistic world".

Quote:
How is using a character in a sequel at all comparable to the way a premise is meant to function given the internal logic of the world established? Not a very good comparison.
Nor was that the comparison I made.

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Old 11-21-2013, 12:59 PM   #196
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Huh?

So the entire Metropolis battle happened in a day.

So the BBC and CNN will report it this way?

Classified aliens looking for a classified man went to a classified location first and then went to a classified street for a fight. And then they went in the middle of the city and leveled it by fighting?

Does Clark live in the middle of a desert? Wouldn't people all around see a UFO flying in the clear skies and stopping over a house?

Will you try to justify every single question raised against MOS?
Will you actually use logic in your attempt to use logic? Or just rant at me?

Did you see news reporters at the Kent farm? I didn't either.

Did you see anyone noticing the UFO over the Kent farm other than those present? Me either.

Therefore, until we see otherwise, I think it's safe to say that, within the context of the story, no one but Lois saw quite what happened there, regarding Clark's identity and role in events.

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Old 11-21-2013, 01:14 PM   #197
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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The world isn't that realistic. And they DIDN'T go to "great paints" to establish a realistic world. This was a science fiction film.
They went to great pains to establish real CONFLICT for Superman. Not a "realistic world".

This is very basic suspension of disbelief stuff. Yes, there are aliens, etc. but the rest of the world resembles a reality we are familiar with. This is the same approach that Nolan took.

From Goyer:

“We’re approaching ‘Superman’ as if it weren’t a comic book movie, as if it were real… I adore the Donner films. Absolutely adore them. It just struck me that there was an idealist quality to them that may or may not work with today’s audience. It just struck me that if Superman really existed in the world, first of all, this story would be a story about first contact.



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Nor was that the comparison I made.

You said:

I'm somewhat amused that people think that because Goyer didn't show the reporter Clark Kent until the end of the film, that this somehow means he doesn't care about that aspect of the character. Sort of like he and Nolan didn't care about The Joker because they saved hints at the character for the end of BATMAN BEGINS and the second film?

1. No one is arguing that Goyer didn't "care about" this aspect of the character, so that's wrong.

2. The comparison is flawed because you are indeed arging that using a character in a sequel (Joker) iscomparable to the way a premise is meant to function given the internal logic of the world established (the "Clark Kent disguise"). But please, by all means, explain your exact comparison.

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Old 11-21-2013, 01:20 PM   #198
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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1. No one is arguing that Goyer didn't "care about" this aspect of the character, so that's wrong.
Some people have. Not you but others.

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Old 11-21-2013, 01:29 PM   #199
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

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Some people have. Not you but others.
Well, if they are, it's a completely baseless complaint. We can expect 100% to see the "secret identity CK disguise" in the sequel. Just because the fans didn't get what they wanted in the first movie doesn't mean Goyer "didn't care". Absurd.

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Old 11-21-2013, 01:29 PM   #200
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Default Re: Goyer Admits They Didn't Plan How 'Reporter Clark Kent' Could Make Sense

The only way to have made it work fully/believably is to have Clark be an on-line contributor/freelancer to several papers. Not a full-fledge DPlanet reporter.

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