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#301 |
Banned User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicagotham
Posts: 2,451
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I skipped to the last page. Is this another Anti-Goyer circlejerk?
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#302 |
Beer Snob
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,993
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You are correct, sir.
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#303 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 19,612
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Of all films to question a cheesy romance dialogue trade(after surviving calamity) I'd say action film is at the bottom. ![]() ![]() ![]() Especially when looking at the what the material has been rooted in for 70 years. Pretty sure the exchanges in both those above films was something similar(about relationship forecasting). The line in MOS was pure corn cheesy nonsense fun. However, this film is supposed to have none of that because we want a consistently dramatic film, with a script that stands up to such scrutiny(see goyer bashing threads). At the same time this is the film accused "took itself toooo seriously and just didn't have enough jokes, or light hearted spirit....you know like avengers and the rest of the colorful ilk these days, specifically cbm's that involve RDJ". The picking and choosing this film has faced knows no bounds imo. Did the line in speed simply make more sense? For my two cents, I could have seen Reeve delivering this exact line and there would have been none the wiser.
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"I care because filmmakers now make films under crippling security because of parasitic gossip. makes movies worse" -James Mangold. |
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#304 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wallachia
Posts: 27,939
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For all the people who b**ch about Goyer's dialogue, I still fail to see how the dialogue in most of the Marvel movies is SO much better, yet I never seem to hear anyone complain about that. I finally saw Thor 2 last night, and damn near every character not named Thor or Loki had TERRIBLE lines. Also, the story was MUCH weaker than MOS.
I don't want to turn this into a DC vs. Marvel thing, because I do enjoy both universes. I just feel like people give those movies WAY more leeway than anything DC. |
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#305 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Nowhere land, making all my Nowhere plans . . .
Posts: 5,759
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But yes, does it really matter? Regarding all the attention he allowed to get close to his home, and with Lois constantly calling him, YELLING, "CLARK," in front of police and military, they REALLY pushed the boundaries of suspension of disbelief there. Now, the aliens speaking English, though done in SOOOOO many sci fi films and shows, without a nod as to why/how, and I DID roll my eyes a bit watching MOS; HOWEVER, they actually DID give a nod to an explanation. The scene with the hijacking of all media devices shows the transmission in other languages around the world. So, clearly they are shown to know the languages of the world, or at least able to garner that knowledge when they arrive. They are supposed to be millions of years beyond us as a species, so the notion that they are informed on the languages of others, or able to learn them in a short period of time, especially after having done so much exploring of the universe in their past, is not pushing reality that much. I just like to assume that, PRIOR to heading to Earth, on Krypton, and in their prison ship, they were actually speaking Kryptonian languages, and it was the film fall back of auto translation.
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#306 |
Noble Savage
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22,338
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The typical complaint about Goyer is about characterizations and story rather than dialogue.
I guess we can't criticize Goyer now. Did his association with TDK suddenly make him untouchable?
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#307 | |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wallachia
Posts: 27,939
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People here complain about his dialogue ALL THE TIME. Where have you been? And no one is saying that you can't criticize him. He's certainly done his share of poor work (Blade 3 jumps out at me). I just think people turn their scrutiny up to 11 when evaluating his work, which they don't seem to do with anyone else involved with these types of movies. |
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#308 | |
Noble Savage
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 22,338
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Right now people get the most defensive when you attack Nolan or Whedon and now it seems like Goyer is steadily joining those ranks. No one should be above criticism, especially people with flawed records,like Goyer.
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"Year off, got no rules, tripping off of them toadstools More green than my Whole Foods And I'm too fly: Jeff Goldblum " - Childish Gambino |
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#309 |
Banned User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicagotham
Posts: 2,451
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Somehow Nolan is always ends up unscathed when it comes to the Goyer hate. As if these two weren't partnered up for the better part of a decade. As if filmmaking doesn't involve the minds of multiple individuals.
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#310 | |
....What?
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,729
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![]() There's a difference between criticism and just flat-out complaining. When people complain about every tiny thing someone does, or blow everything out of proportion (MOS was a total failure, MOS was a terrible film, Goyer is a failure), it gets to the point where logic has to step in. They gave Superman realistic challenges to face in this day and age. The secret identity thing is my absolute least favorite thing about Superman, and I'll be happy if a few people know, or if he has to work harder to keep the identity. I'm cautiously optimistic that Goyer and Snyder won't rely too much on stupid comic relief to deal with the identity issue...and I'm hopeful that a few of the people closest to Clark are allowed to be intelligent and trust-worthy enough to figure out and keep his secret.
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#311 |
Welp.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 15,355
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Hmmm. John Cazale?
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#312 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 10,317
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Christopher Nolan has a flawless record.
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#313 |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,597
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That's subjective (although in my personal opinion, I agree). And here's the rub - it's all personal preference. Messiah says most of the foyer complaints are characterization and storyline based? Well IMO, he has one of the best records in the genre for absolutely nailing both. Depending on the director it turns out on a different part of the scale, but his storyline and characterization are consistently faithful but fresh depictions of their characters. IMO.
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#314 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Here's a question. How would you feel about Goyer DIRECTING a DC film?
That's one area where I think he's been decidedly terrible. The Unborn and Blade Trinity are two of the worst movies I've ever seen. I've heard The Invisible really sucks too, though I don't know. However, one would hope he's learned a few things since then. |
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#315 |
Beer Snob
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,993
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Well, apparently not in choosing who he works with if Goyer is such a hack (in other people's words, not yours).
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#316 |
Psiconautiq
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 713
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I'm 50/50 about Goyer writing skills, SPECIALLY in the plot and characterization department :P
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-Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc-
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#317 | |
Banned User
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Outside the doors of Arkham Ayslum
Posts: 10,888
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Seriously some of what people are saying is nonsensical. |
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#318 |
Crimson and Clover
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Detroit Rock City
Posts: 21,188
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this is true.
this is not. |
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#319 | |
Earth Bound
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 32,597
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![]() Game, set and match Mr(I presume) Krumm. |
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#320 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,597
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"No great genius has ever existed without some touch of madness." - Aristotle |
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#321 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wallachia
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Eh, I thought Blade Trinity was pretty terrible. I'm by no means a Goyer hater but I can't defend him on that one. That might have been the WORST depiction of Dracula I've seen yet (maybe worse than Gerard Butler's Michael Hutchence Dracula). And that was one movie where the use of the F-word really annoyed me. I ordinarily have no problem with cursing in movies, but it just seemed like they were trying to find ways to insert f*** in every other line, as if they had to fill some sort of quota or were attempting to create a Blade college drinking game.
That said, I hope that Goyer has learned a few things since then in terms of direction. Because I just have a feeling that sooner or later he's going to end up directing a DC property. |
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#322 | ||
Professor of Power
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
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So there's no room for throwing in "F*** realism" when the whole movie has been the very opposite. If MOS was an "F*** realism" movie, like a Pixar film or X-Men Wolverine: Origins, then I'd say, yeah F*** realism, but that's not what MOS was or is, so let's not pretend that no one cares about the world building. Quote:
2) The "kissing humans" line was not typical of the
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#323 |
Banned User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wallachia
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Oh, so a predominantly serious movie can't have ANY lighthearted or goofy moments? A movie that strives for a "real world" tone can't have anything that requires the audience to suspend disbelief a bit? Got it.
Funny, I thought suspension of disbelief is somewhat mandatory when watching A MOVIE ABOUT A MAN WHO CAN F**KING FLY. |
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#324 | |
Beer Snob
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,993
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Also, those movies were the 90's so not nearly as dated. |
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#325 | |
Side-Kick
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 31,830
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And the layperson would know that they weren't just at the Kent farm trying to find out how to find someone or get somewhere else...how? And the layperson would know that maybe they weren't just taking a hostage or something...how? And who, pray tell, SAW them at the Kent farm? Again, it's a remote location, and for all we know, Zod's ships have some kind of cloaking tech. Lord knows they travel fast enough that most people wouldn't see them landing. What else have you got?
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