David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

[InJustice]

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

I've thought about it, and if that's the direction Snyder wants to go in, Batman can beat up Superman:

- In the second Hulk movie, loud noises are used to scare Hulk, that should also work on a Kryptonian. Using sensory overload to attack Supeman should be a general strategy imo.

It's not the same though. The internal logic of the film shows that a Kryptonian suffers sensory overload when 2 or more super sense activate simultaneously (X-Ray Vision + Super hearing). If he's not focusing on his super hearing (or he focuses on a different spectrum), then loud noises wouldn't hurt him. Moreover, you could even operate under the logic that because his body is indestructible, that his eardrums wouldn't be sensitive to loud noises unlike the human ear.

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

- Hit him with missiles. MoS shows that Superman recoils from missiles.

Recoil, yes. But he's not getting harmed so it's pointless. Moreover, Superman could simply fly out of the target range. Also, I have a hard time believing that Batman would resort to destructive methods especially if he is personally insulted by the Metropolis battle.

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

- Use some Kryptonian technology picked up.

I think it's likely that LexCorp took it than Batman. And it would have to depend on the story logic. Is Lex teaming up with Batman? Is Lex's involvement only the public disdain/attack on Superman?

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

- There may be other alien technology lying around that authorities have kept secret.

I think it's more likely that LexCorp takes the technology and researches its functions in secret.

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

- have the proto justice league help him out

That would imply that heroes have banded prior to Superman's arrival, which I don't think is possible given how some heroes may have large egos (for instance, Batman telling Superman to literally gtfo of Gotham in the Byrne chapter). That also makes it more difficult to tell the Justice League story, since the origins is based on heroes banding together against a common enemy, or Martian Manhunter unites them against a common enemy (again, depends on which continuities you're familiar with).

Also, I don't think it's fair to involve the proto-league if the film is saying that two men are fighting. Luthor is the farthest I'd go for a Batman team-up.

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

- Have Batman lure Superman into a room with a Kryptonian atmosphere
- etc

Snyder can convincingly tell Superman winning, Batman winning, or a draw. Whatever story he wants to tell can work.

This presupposes that Batman knows how Kryptonian biology works and that's simply impossible. Wayne is a smart man, no doubt but that, but he would not know about Kryptonian atmosphere by virtue of the fact that research on Kryptonians are non-existent (that can change for MOS II/BvS, unless Superman had a burial for Zod, in that case, it becomes more difficult to acquire data).

Not to mention, the Black Zero sequence took place in space. No one other than Lois Lane knows that Superman cannot handle Kryptonian atmosphere. So I can't really see Batman planning this far without sounding like an ass pull.

Snyder can certainly take a side and present that story, but I feel like his love for Superman and the comic-con interview where he basically said Superman wins (interesting enough, Goyer admits that Superman would win in a fight), would seep into the script.

[DA_Champion]

The Kryptonian atmosphere was flowing all over the Indian Ocean, and detectable from space by means of spetroscopy. Once Batman knows the chemistry, he can quickly figure out it will have an effect on Superman, and organize a test to see what the effect is.

I smell an interesting game of cat and mouse.

BTW: I love your idea of Batman teaming up with Luthor.

[InJustice]

That raises an interesting question, then. Is it permanent? Because, we see that Superman perseveres against the gravity beam and atmosphere emitted from the World Engine. The movie certainly implied that Superman exhausted his sunlight reserves to pull off what he did. Suggesting that it would be futile.

I would rather Batman concoct something like Red Sun frequency if he was to go to that extent to weaken Superman. Again, how Batman counters depends on how detailed the research on Kryptonians/Superman are.

[MrsKent26]

I like to be open minded when it comes to these sci-fi things since it's hard to prove or disprove any of them with logic, but I don't think I like this whole Kyptonian atmosphere thing. Well, not in the context of a Batman/Superman fight anyways.

I just think it would open up a can of worms. The Kryptonian atmosphere that existed with the world engine was incomplete and only present for a short time. The whole invasion in MOS took place over a very short time period and people weren't expecting it. How would Batman have the chance to study that? The other atmosphere in the black zero was contained and again only there for a short while, then subsequently destroyed.

In order to use this atmosphere weakness, Batman would have had to study an atmosphere through an alien ship over a short time using highly sophisticated machinery during an invasion no one knew was coming. Then he has to find a way to contain and concentrate it because the widespread and incomplete WE way didn't weaken Supes enough at first and he would see that coming. And why would Supes just walk into some sort of alternate atmosphere and how would batman test it? What equipment would he use? The WE and BZ are gone. The ships left didn't have kryptonian atmospheres.

And even if Bats could create such a place, how could he stand to be in it in order to fight Supes? Lois had to wear a breather. Would bats wear some sort of breathing helmet? Where would he get that? Wouldn't supes wonder what was up with a helmeted Bats leading him into a special room? Couldn't Supes just rip off the helmet and kill him?

To be honest, I think finding a way to introduce Kyptonite would be less hokey that this atmosphere thing. People already know it's supes' weakness and it need less explanation that this other stuff. Goyer sometimes over complicates things and wastes time to explain how things work when he should explain how peoples' characters work. This is the problem with having Bats and Supes fight a physical fight. Fanboys don't want to admit that Bats just can't fight Supes and win, so something absurd has to occur to allow it. They have to bring the hokey-ness to make Bats a physical threat. I'd rather see them engage in a battle of wills/ideals instead.

[DA_Champion]

The composition of the gas over the indian ocean would be easily detectable from space, with a spectroscopic satellite.

[MrsKent26]

Originally Posted by DA_Champion

The composition of the gas over the indian ocean would be easily detectable from space, with a spectroscopic satellite.

And Batman has one of those and happened to use it during the time when that anomaly was present?

[titansupes]

Originally Posted by MrsKent26

And Batman has one of those and happened to use it during the time when that anomaly was present?

Maybe? Or maybe he just uses the bat-computer to hack into the governments/NASA's findings.

[MrsKent26]

Eh. If Bats must beat Supes, just bring on the Kryptonite. Bats can't hack into government/nasa stuff. The government makes sure the best hackers in the world work for them. Bats wouldn't have time to learn how to be that good of a hacker amongst all the other things he does.

[DA_Champion]

If wayne enterprises produces climate research satellites then it is a done deal and he will have no problem measuring the composition of the gas.

It is not a plot stretch. Additionally, it is more interesting than kryptonite, since batman still requires intelligence, and superman maintains human strength.

[DA_Champion]

Originally Posted by MrsKent26

Eh. If Bats must beat Supes, just bring on the Kryptonite. Bats can't hack into government/nasa stuff. The government makes sure the best hackers in the world work for them. Bats wouldn't have time to learn how to be that good of a hacker amongst all the other things he does.

Batman can hack into the military with ease if wayne enterprises produces their hardware.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by MrsKent26

Eh. If Bats must beat Supes, just bring on the Kryptonite. Bats can't hack into government/nasa stuff. The government makes sure the best hackers in the world work for them. Bats wouldn't have time to learn how to be that good of a hacker amongst all the other things he does.

This is what Nolan has done to us
What a damn rotten shame.

hacking is one of bat's most featured skills in the source material.

[DA_Champion]

Originally Posted by Marvin

This is what Nolan has done to us
What a damn rotten shame.

hacking is one of bat's most featured skills in the source material.

It depends.

Have you watched Agents of Shield? The hacking on that show is really stupid, and takes away from it.

Batman hacking into NASA, however, can work just fine. Wayne Enterprises is a military contractor isn't it? Problem solved.

[shallbecomeabat]

Originally Posted by MrsKent26

Eh. If Bats must beat Supes, just bring on the Kryptonite. Bats can't hack into government/nasa stuff. The government makes sure the best hackers in the world work for them. Bats wouldn't have time to learn how to be that good of a hacker amongst all the other things he does.

In the comics he has infiltrated the Pentagon on multiple occasions, without being detected. I don't think he would have much problem hacking into NASA.

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by shallbecomeabat

In the comics he has infiltrated the Pentagon on multiple occasions, without being detected. I don't think he would have much problem hacking into NASA.

indeed.

[godisawesome]

Eh, here's an idea on how Batman could potentially attack Superman without kryptonite or a gargantuan budget the likes of which the world has never seen:

Superman clearly needs to breathe in this continuity in order to function. Maybe he just finds some kind of debilitating and atmosphere absorbing gel and makes a bomb that he can shove in Superman's throat or shoot him in the face with. The gel will cut off Superman's air supply, but still be fragile and conventional enough that Superman can get rid of it relatively quickly.

[roach]

One thing I noticed is that he isn't as invulnerable as we are used to…in the Smallville fight scene he dodges gunfire from the planes.

[The Guard]

He does, but keep in mind, we don't know that he's ever been shot before. He may not know what his limits are.

[roach]

Originally Posted by The Guard

He does, but keep in mind, we don't know that he's ever been shot before. He may not know what his limits are.

true

[The Boy Scout]

Originally Posted by The Guard

He does, but keep in mind, we don't know that he's ever been shot before. He may not know what his limits are.

I assumed he did it instinctively. He survived the ordeal with the oil rig, so I'm sure he knows bullets can't hurt him.

[godisawesome]

And the kinetic force effects him, a bit like punches, but apparently not all that powerful of punches, considering it doesn't even stagger him, it just kind of pops his head back. And that was heavier bullets he dodged from an A-10 Warthog the first time. And if he's moving, he'll knock them aside pretty powerfully, like a baseball bat.

I had the idea of some kind of Magnetic Accelerator Cannons like in Halo that Luthor and Batman could put in space to hit him hard enough to actually damage him with. Kind of like the Zeus in G.I.Joe Retaliation, but somewhat more conventional and focused, and of course something that Luthor would want to abuse. I figured they could initially justify them as strictly planetary defense weapons but they could be turned inward towards the planet as well.

[InJustice]

Originally Posted by roach

One thing I noticed is that he isn't as invulnerable as we are used to…in the Smallville fight scene he dodges gunfire from the planes.

He is invulnerable though. There is this one scene where Superman was hit by a bullet and isn't hurt by it. The only difference is that Zack added some "realism" by having him be affected by the physics of the bullet. So what you see is the recoil effect.

[MrsKent26]

Originally Posted by shallbecomeabat

In the comics he has infiltrated the Pentagon on multiple occasions, without being detected. I don't think he would have much problem hacking into NASA.

Really? Is the Pentagon that easily hacked? I find that hard to buy. I don't think this strategy makes any more sense than Kryptonite. But I guess it doesn't matter. They'll have to do something crazy to give Bats a chance,

[Marvin]

Originally Posted by MrsKent26

Really? Is the Pentagon that easily hacked? I find that hard to buy. I don't think this strategy makes any more sense than Kryptonite. But I guess it doesn't matter. They'll have to do something crazy to give Bats a chance,

Easy?
No, but batman isn't batman cause he does easy things, he's batman cause he does hard things. Partially do to his keen mind, partially do to his resources.

Ask yourself this, could Oracle hack the pentagon computers in a conventional batman book?

[MrsKent26]

Originally Posted by Marvin

Easy?
No, but batman isn't batman cause he does easy things, he's batman cause he does hard things. Partially do to his keen mind, partially do to his resources.

Ask yourself this, could Oracle hack the pentagon computers in a conventional batman book?

Well, anything can and does happen in the comics. I tend to think of the movies as a different beast, in some aspects.

[charl_huntress]

Bumped for sanity's sake.