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Old 11-19-2013, 01:42 AM   #326
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

When Jane was being examined by the doctors on Asgard and Odin comes in and insists she go back to earth - he should have recognized the presence of the Aether at once - he is suppose to be the all seeing all father...

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Old 11-19-2013, 02:01 AM   #327
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

During the funeral for Thor's mom - why did he not have his helmet on here? Odin did, why not Thor? Seems there have been logical spots in both movies for him to put the damn thing on - I wish Marvel would put their foot down about this at least once a film...

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Old 11-20-2013, 03:09 AM   #328
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Also, another thing that I didn't like was how they didn't even once fully address the "dark matter" subject that Loki briefly brought up in "The Avengers" regarding on how Thor came back.

Seriously, when the previous film makes it a big point in ending on the note that a person cannot travel between realms unless they have a Bi-frost bridge, only to come up with a unexplained plot device afterwards as a means of justifying how a person traveled back to Earth...it kind of makes a person scratch their head thinking about it as a whole.
Agreed, they could have easily explained that Odin using Dark Energy to send Thor to Earth in Avengers severely weakened him to the point that he wasn't prepared to deal with Malekith's attack. Heck, that could be their explanation of how Loki was able to overpower and replace him (if that's what happened at the end there).

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Old 11-20-2013, 03:18 AM   #329
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Agreed, they could have easily explained that Odin using Dark Energy to send Thor to Earth in Avengers severely weakened him to the point that he wasn't prepared to deal with Malekith's attack. Heck, that could be their explanation of how Loki was able to overpower and replace him (if that's what happened at the end there).
I really do hope that they have both a legitimate excuse/reason for how Loki assumed the throne and how he survived his skirmish with Kurse.

I really hope that they don't say that Loki was pretending the entire time to help Thor, with his excuse of avenging their mother being a ruse. Heck, worst case scenario, they say in the third film that Loki looking worn out and emotionally drained during the moment when Thor visited him in prison was actually another illusion as well and that the version of him that was killed was also some allusion that could be touched and felt real but wasn't real.

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Old 11-20-2013, 01:33 PM   #330
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Well, I got the sense that Loki was legitimately saddened by Frigga' death. I didn't see much evidence that Loki pre-planned all of this. I got the sense that it was just him taking advantage of an unexpected opportunity (everyone thinking that he was dead). Then again, that's just by interpretation, this movie has a serious problem with not explaining important plot points/character motives/etc, or at least not explaining them very well. I think that Loki simply being opportunistic is much more believable and interesting than him planning this from the beginning.

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Old 11-22-2013, 05:41 PM   #331
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

-the movie could have been a little longer
-I wanted a little more Sif/Warriors 3

That's about it.

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Old 11-23-2013, 02:08 PM   #332
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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Also, another thing that I didn't like was how they didn't even once fully address the "dark matter" subject that Loki briefly brought up in "The Avengers" regarding on how Thor came back.

Seriously, when the previous film makes it a big point in ending on the note that a person cannot travel between realms unless they have a Bi-frost bridge, only to come up with a unexplained plot device afterwards as a means of justifying how a person traveled back to Earth...it kind of makes a person scratch their head thinking about it as a whole.
Ya, it cheapened some of that scene from Avengers and how Thor arrived on Earth. With everyone else in the Avengers we got caught up in what they were up to prior to the mission. With Thor, he was just plopped down through the clouds.

On one hand it made for a visually stoic entrance, but on the other hand I can't believe they couldn't round up a quick scene where Odin is notified of Loki's presence on Earth and emotionally commands Thor to bring him back. Of course we're supposed to be pacified by Loki's "dark energy" explanation thinking we'd get the full dibs once T:TDW came out. Didn't happen. It wasn't even glossed over and all that's left to explain it is some movie comic prequel trying to retcon everything.

The "Dark Energy" Odin conjured most definitely should've been involved in the awakening of the Dark Elves. I have no clue why it wasn't, seemed like the most obvious and natural transition.

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Old 11-23-2013, 08:15 PM   #333
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Agreed; plus, maybe it's just a personal preference for me and others here, but I feel like they should have made some sort of hint or nod towards Thanos or "The Other" in this film considering his threat towards Loki on how if he were to fail, then he would not be safe even within the confines of Asgard.

I'm actually wondering as well as to why Thanos doesn't even bother invading Asgard seeing as how just one of Malekith's mother ships was able to cause so much destruction.

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Old 11-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #334
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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Ya, it cheapened some of that scene from Avengers and how Thor arrived on Earth. With everyone else in the Avengers we got caught up in what they were up to prior to the mission. With Thor, he was just plopped down through the clouds.

On one hand it made for a visually stoic entrance, but on the other hand I can't believe they couldn't round up a quick scene where Odin is notified of Loki's presence on Earth and emotionally commands Thor to bring him back. Of course we're supposed to be pacified by Loki's "dark energy" explanation thinking we'd get the full dibs once T:TDW came out. Didn't happen. It wasn't even glossed over and all that's left to explain it is some movie comic prequel trying to retcon everything.

The "Dark Energy" Odin conjured most definitely should've been involved in the awakening of the Dark Elves. I have no clue why it wasn't, seemed like the most obvious and natural transition.
The prelude comic shows what happened with the dark energy. Thor doesn't come to the jet when he is sent to Earth, he just crashes to the ground and is knocked out a while (both he and Odin are also weakened by the use of that power). Thor landing on the jet is just him flying there on his own.

While I don't think it's directly necessary to show it I agree that it would have been better if they could have weaved that into the events of TDW. For Odin to awake the dark elves with the use of dark energy that would basically have had to be him using the Aether though.

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Agreed; plus, maybe it's just a personal preference for me and others here, but I feel like they should have made some sort of hint or nod towards Thanos or "The Other" in this film considering his threat towards Loki on how if he were to fail, then he would not be safe even within the confines of Asgard.

I'm actually wondering as well as to why Thanos doesn't even bother invading Asgard seeing as how just one of Malekith's mother ships was able to cause so much destruction.
I can imagine Loki not being too keen on showing all the mistakes he made when they are already pretty angry at him.

As for Thanos, it seems like he's trying to collect the stones without drawing too much attention to himself (although I don't know how closely tied the Chitauri are to him, so that could be something that makes my statement false) so perhaps he doesn't want to attack a place of power until he's closer to achieving his end goal. Attacking Asgard might draw the attention of a good amount of powerful beings to what he's doing. Just some speculation.

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Old 11-24-2013, 11:55 AM   #335
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The prelude comic shows what happened with the dark energy. Thor doesn't come to the jet when he is sent to Earth, he just crashes to the ground and is knocked out a while (both he and Odin are also weakened by the use of that power). Thor landing on the jet is just him flying there on his own.

While I don't think it's directly necessary to show it I agree that it would have been better if they could have weaved that into the events of TDW. For Odin to awake the dark elves with the use of dark energy that would basically have had to be him using the Aether though.'
Those comic prequels are a complete waste of time.

Why would Odin "have to" use the Aether? He didn't when he transported Thor to Earth. You can still tell the same story, excepts it's Odin awakening the Dark Elves and then they are alerted to the Aether's presence in the exact same way it happened in the movie.

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I can imagine Loki not being too keen on showing all the mistakes he made when they are already pretty angry at him.

As for Thanos, it seems like he's trying to collect the stones without drawing too much attention to himself (although I don't know how closely tied the Chitauri are to him, so that could be something that makes my statement false) so perhaps he doesn't want to attack a place of power until he's closer to achieving his end goal. Attacking Asgard might draw the attention of a good amount of powerful beings to what he's doing. Just some speculation.
But again, this just falls into that issue of them ignoring important aspects of what's supposed to be the inter-connective tissue. You'd have thought it wasn't just some "filler" line The Other gave to Loki when he told him there'd be no place for him to hide if he failed. That's a huge direct threat and one not followed up on.

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Old 11-24-2013, 12:15 PM   #336
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Those comic prequels are a complete waste of time.

Why would Odin "have to" use the Aether? He didn't when he transported Thor to Earth. You can still tell the same story, excepts it's Odin awakening the Dark Elves and then they are alerted to the Aether's presence in the exact same way it happened in the movie.



But again, this just falls into that issue of them ignoring important aspects of what's supposed to be the inter-connective tissue. You'd have thought it wasn't just some "filler" line The Other gave to Loki when he told him there'd be no place for him to hide if he failed. That's a huge direct threat and one not followed up on.
Key world is Threat. It would be like just like Secretary of State threatening Assad or Kim Jong un. Sure The Other meant it but Thanos isn't stupid enough to risk a direct war with Asgard over one prisoner. I could see him trying do a seal team six type thing but it doesn't matter any more Thanos probably believes that Loki is dead now. I don't think The Other took into account the Asgardians recapturing him when he made that threat. They are still going to come after him they just aren't going to be stupid while going about it.

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Old 11-24-2013, 08:28 PM   #337
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Default Re: What didn't you like about T:TDW?

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Why would Odin "have to" use the Aether? He didn't when he transported Thor to Earth. You can still tell the same story, excepts it's Odin awakening the Dark Elves and then they are alerted to the Aether's presence in the exact same way it happened in the movie.
Because the Aether is what is linked to the dark elves. That it's been found is what makes them go out of hibernation. It would be redundant to have two types of energy related to them.

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But again, this just falls into that issue of them ignoring important aspects of what's supposed to be the inter-connective tissue. You'd have thought it wasn't just some "filler" line The Other gave to Loki when he told him there'd be no place for him to hide if he failed. That's a huge direct threat and one not followed up on.
Yes, they threaten him to ensure that he's going to do everything he can to succeed and so he won't dare to betray them. Nothing says that you can't make threats that you won't act upon, or even that they are true. Loki might be able to hide from them but if he can they certainly won't tell him that. Don't put too much hopes into the honesty and reliability of villains.

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Old 11-24-2013, 08:36 PM   #338
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I am sure they cash in on that threat The Other made in Avengers 3, guys. In Thor 2 without Thanos having any backstory and nothing to do with the Dark Elves, that would have been an unnecessary distraction. Sheesh, everyone needs patience.

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Old 11-25-2013, 07:21 AM   #339
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I'm not sure if it was just me, but I kind of had issues with how they staged on how Fandral fought at the beginning of the film.

It just came off so fake, as though he were just hitting people with his stick as opposed to slashing them, which was an impression that I very much got when I was at least watching Joshua's Fandral in the battle with the frost giants.

Also, I didn't like on how we were misled (imho) to believe by Feige and others that this film would really explore the 9 realms since we really didn't see that much. I mean we got a glimpse of Hogun's planet and it was a given that we'd see Malekith's one, but aside from that, nothing really different other than the small circular shots of them during the convergence.

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Old 11-25-2013, 09:55 AM   #340
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Well if you've ever watched actual rapiers in action they DO bend as they Slice an object. Having a Renaissance Faire background I didn't see anything wrong, maybe I'm just used to the Blades lol

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Old 11-25-2013, 04:12 PM   #341
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Key world is Threat. It would be like just like Secretary of State threatening Assad or Kim Jong un. Sure The Other meant it but Thanos isn't stupid enough to risk a direct war with Asgard over one prisoner. I could see him trying do a seal team six type thing but it doesn't matter any more Thanos probably believes that Loki is dead now. I don't think The Other took into account the Asgardians recapturing him when he made that threat. They are still going to come after him they just aren't going to be stupid while going about it.
Now you're assuming Thanos would know Loki was dead (with no proof) ..... again, something that needs to be covered in-movie if that's the case. Threat or not, they didn't discuss the Loki/Thanos situation stemming from The Avengers and it was quite a big talking point in the previous film given the small screen time The Other got. I didn't watch the scene and think to myself "Pfffft just fluff and throwaway". Loki was visibly unnerved.

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I am sure they cash in on that threat The Other made in Avengers 3, guys. In Thor 2 without Thanos having any backstory and nothing to do with the Dark Elves, that would have been an unnecessary distraction. Sheesh, everyone needs patience.
C'mon man ..... 5 years later? Why can't they touch upon the subject before that? It's clearly a serious issue. Thanos didn't have a backstory in The Avengers and yet they still felt compelled to specifically tell the audience Loki's life was on the line if he didn't get the Cube, so the idea he needed one for T:TDW just to be mentioned is not the case.

I don't see any distraction at all for what I'm asking. I mean a mere mention? That's going to derail the movie and the Dark Elves plight? No way.


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Old 11-25-2013, 04:16 PM   #342
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Because the Aether is what is linked to the dark elves. That it's been found is what makes them go out of hibernation. It would be redundant to have two types of energy related to them.
Dark Energy can't be linked to Dark Elves? The writers can't make that connection and have them awakened because Odin desperately needed to send Thor back to midgard and took a major risk by using Dark Energy? They could've told that story and then begun their search for the Aether since they needed it to finish their plans.

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Yes, they threaten him to ensure that he's going to do everything he can to succeed and so he won't dare to betray them. Nothing says that you can't make threats that you won't act upon, or even that they are true. Loki might be able to hide from them but if he can they certainly won't tell him that. Don't put too much hopes into the honesty and reliability of villains.
Don't put too much hope into the honesty and reliability of villains???? Every villain we've had in the MCU has attempted to proceed with their plans/threats.

I don't know how you can sit there and marginalize a very distinct and overt threat to Loki's life given what was at stake and how badly Thanos wanted the cube. That was no throwaway line.


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Old 11-25-2013, 09:01 PM   #343
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Dark Energy can't be linked to Dark Elves? The writers can't make that connection and have them awakened because Odin desperately needed to send Thor back to midgard and took a major risk by using Dark Energy? They could've told that story and then begun their search for the Aether since they needed it to finish their plans.
It can but it would introduce another big coincidence. The Aether would just happen to be found at the same time Odin decides to use dark energy to send Thor to Earth. I think it would have been a much tighter thing to have had the Aether hidden on Asgard and Odin using the power of it to send Thor to Earth, just as they used the Tesseract to repair the Bifrost. Two different dark energys tied to the dark elves seems redundant to me, as previously stated.

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Don't put too much hope into the honesty and reliability of villains???? Every villain we've had in the MCU has attempted to proceed with their plans/threats.

I don't know how you can sit there and marginalize a very distinct and overt threat to Loki's life given what was at stake and how badly Thanos wanted the cube. That was no throwaway line.
You just ignored the part about Loki might actually being able to hide, despite what Thanos said. It doesn't make Thanos unwilling to live up to his threat.

I've also already stated what could possibly make Thanos not attack Asgard right now, which is that it could draw the attention of a lot of powerful beings. The part the Collector seems to play indicates that there's some subtlety in his plans rather than outright conquest at every point.

I also don't see Thanos as a rash, hot headed villain that would just rush after Loki when things failed. He has his plan and back up plans and dealing with Loki can definitely still be on his mind.

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Old 11-26-2013, 12:55 PM   #344
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Tying Thor's appearance on Earth in the Avengers to the awakening of Mal would have been a great idea.

I felt this film was fun but ever so slightly butchered. You guys think Marvel will allow a Director's Cut? Taylor seems up for it.

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Old 11-26-2013, 01:12 PM   #345
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Dark Energy can't be linked to Dark Elves? The writers can't make that connection and have them awakened because Odin desperately needed to send Thor back to midgard and took a major risk by using Dark Energy? They could've told that story and then begun their search for the Aether since they needed it to finish their plans.



Don't put too much hope into the honesty and reliability of villains???? Every villain we've had in the MCU has attempted to proceed with their plans/threats.

I don't know how you can sit there and marginalize a very distinct and overt threat to Loki's life given what was at stake and how badly Thanos wanted the cube. That was no throwaway line.
Finally found something I agree with Rock Sexton on.

Yeah, sweeping the Thanos threat under the rug was mind-blowing. Thanos is the reason Loki was in the prison; Thanos was the reason he lived in fear for his life. The plot point was absolutely pertinent to TDW, but they didn't even address it.

Unless....The Collector works for Thanos, or is even Thanos in disguise. Yeah, I know a lot of people hate that idea --- I think even you, Rock, I can't remember --- but it would put some perspective on the infamous mid-credit scene. If Loki, disguised as Odin, sent an Infinity Stone to Thanos as a bargaining chip for his own life, it begins to make a little more sense. Still, the Stone that Thanos specifically asked for is still in Loki's possession, so he probably wouldn't consider it "an even trade."

The only caveat about that scenario is that it assumes that Loki knows The Collector is in Thanos' camp, and The Collector would have to know that Loki is disguising himself as Odin now. That's a lot to assume. But hey, "gangsters of the Nine Realms" and back-room deals and all that.

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Old 11-27-2013, 03:33 AM   #346
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I am sure they cash in on that threat The Other made in Avengers 3, guys. In Thor 2 without Thanos having any backstory and nothing to do with the Dark Elves, that would have been an unnecessary distraction. Sheesh, everyone needs patience.
First of all, you're making a huge assumption that Loki will even appear in Avengers 3. Second, it's not "impatience" to not want to wait half a decade to get clarification on ONE SPECIFIC line, it's common sense. No one said that it had to be a big thing in the movie, just give us something. This movie didn't do nearly enough actual character/plot stuff as it is, so the Other thing might have helped the movie in that regard.

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Old 11-28-2013, 12:50 PM   #347
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First of all, you're making a huge assumption that Loki will even appear in Avengers 3. Second, it's not "impatience" to not want to wait half a decade to get clarification on ONE SPECIFIC line, it's common sense. No one said that it had to be a big thing in the movie, just give us something. This movie didn't do nearly enough actual character/plot stuff as it is, so the Other thing might have helped the movie in that regard.
The Other wasn't a focus in the story. Therefore, making him come in and confront Loki WOULD have been out of left field in THIS film. Plot/pacing needs to be kept in mind. In a film about Dark Elves that has nothing to do with Thanos, you can't throw The Other into a random action sequence and have him go after Loki. It makes no sense and is jarring for the audience. The only way that works is as a cut scene (and in this case the focus was to build toward the Gauntlet and GotG) or as a line of dialogue between Loki and a 3rd party (Odin, Thor, etc), and honestly it is just better to cover that later. Besides, Loki sitting on the throne is a better place to leave the character than to end the movie like they did, and THEN have him owned by Thanos.

Thanos is already known to be what they're building towards. Do you really think that Loki's actions in Avengers will be forgotten once the Thanos/Gauntlet card is played? Also, THE TESSERACT IS ON ASGARD!!! Thanos will come for it LATER! That is when we will get our confrontation. Once again, patience.

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Old 11-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #348
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C'mon man ..... 5 years later? Why can't they touch upon the subject before that? It's clearly a serious issue. Thanos didn't have a backstory in The Avengers and yet they still felt compelled to specifically tell the audience Loki's life was on the line if he didn't get the Cube, so the idea he needed one for T:TDW just to be mentioned is not the case.

I don't see any distraction at all for what I'm asking. I mean a mere mention? That's going to derail the movie and the Dark Elves plight? No way.
Thanos hasn't been explained yet, so it is better to save this confrontation when we know what Loki is facing. Plus, maybe Loki will even need to join the Avengers in 3 to save himself. That would be a potentially interesting story, and well worth waiting to build upon that line. It's not going to be forgotten. Downside to not having Thanos in Avengers 2 is waiting for a lot of this to come into play. Based on what happens in this movie, I think it is better to save the threat for when it can be used better. This wasn't the best film to cash in on that, especially if Thanos/Gauntlet isn't coming until Avengers 3. That is my honest opinion.

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