The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > The Avengers > The Avengers Sequels

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-08-2013, 02:36 PM   #51
InternetPeople
Petty... and tiny
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 365
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Cage still needs to be a willing participant. Think if Banner was a criminal and an unwilling participant, and through experimentation became Hulk. You're boned. It's the same thing in this scenario with Cage but to a lesser extent.

Of course Cage will have ulterior motives if he is an unwilling participant. That's why it's stupid to give someone who is not on board with the plan, powers that will make them unstoppable. If AIM is so genius they should be able to figure that out. Out of a prison population, you would have a ton of psychopaths who would do anything for super powers and freedom. You don't pick the guy you have doubts about.

Giving Cage a history of incarceration and gang activity lends credibility to the idea the prison would experiment on Cage. Any good scientist would test on multiple subjects, a prison gang perhaps? These experiments could tie in with AIM and extremis (I thought that was a given considering AIM's involvement) but there doesn't have to be deaths from the experiments because extremis in IM3 hasn't shown to cause any.

To put Cage in prison he was falsely accused and wrongfully imprisoned. Upon Cage and Wrecking Crew's breakout, Cage begins to hunt down the actual felon. This should be another super villain and it's possible they are working for AIM. Maybe Iron Fist and/or Jessica Jones has been looking for this guy while Cage is imprisoned. (Pick a villain as I don't read the comics and am unfamiliar with Cage's/H4H stable.)

EDIT: Reading wiki, Purple Man could have made Cage do the crime he thinks he is wrongfully accused of. That would shock Cage and the audience. In the scenario, Purple Man is just a dude, not connected to AIM or anyone, yet.

It won't surprise me if Jessica Jones is never given powers. From what I have read she seems too similar to Cage in types of powers and that would need it's own bit of explaining. She could be a street gang detective who knows Cage from his history of crime. At the end of the film, Jones leaves the force to join Cage and Iron Fist in Heroes for Hire to track Purple Man and the remaining members of Wrecking Crew.

InternetPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 11:50 AM   #52
Artistsean
Monkey Boy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,241
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

His origin is being a wrongfully convicted prisoner experimented on and turned into a
superhero. In the comics his powers and power levels place him between Captain
America and Hulk. These are things straight from the comic. Things that have been
established for years and some would say integral to the Marvel character.

"of desperately volunteering, in hope of parole, for Noah Burstein's Electro-Biochemical Experiment
in Human Cell Regeneration... And having it explode around him as Rackham, a guard who hates
him, tries to sabotage it!"


"Burnstein offered me a chance to volunteer for this new experiment they were trying.
It was risky, but I didn't care. If it worked, I got a chance at parole. If it didn't, I
wouldn't know any better."

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

"During Cage's prison tearm, Dr. Noah Bernstein, a research physiologist working
under a grant from Stark International, came to Seagate to perform an experiment on
volunteer prisoners, to test a chemical method to promote human cell regeneration as
an aid against disease and aging. Bernstein saw Cagfe, who was an exceptionally
well-built and healthy young man, as the ideal test subject. Sympahtetic when Cage
told him the details of how he was framed, Bernstein told Cage that he would do what
he could to get him paroled at the end of the experiment. Although suspicious at first,
Cage agreed."


Arnim Zola, Red Skull's top Nazi scientist, experimented with the Super Soldier Serum
on these men, American Soldiers, during WWII in the Captain America movie. You
could ask director Joe Johnston why Nazis would experiment on American soldiers
with the Super Soldier Serum if they thought it would create another Captain America
or Red Skull. This experimentation director Johnston has said in the commentary leads
to Bucky becoming the Winter Soldier. Who knows, maybe even leading to Dum Dum
Dugan living longer so he could show up in later films.


Last edited by Artistsean; 04-12-2013 at 11:58 AM.
Artistsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 01:27 PM   #53
InternetPeople
Petty... and tiny
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 365
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Since when did the films stay 100% true to the comics in every aspect? You would have a point if that were true, but it's not. You're willing to change Spiderwoman, why can't I change Cage?

I wonder if that scientist was sympathetic to all the other criminals in jail when they told him their sob story about how they were framed? Maybe people really are that simple, OJ is innocent after all, right?

Zola experimented on soldiers, all of whom died. Cage was experimented on in hopes of parole, which involves living. This is a terrible comparison.

Using parole as an incentive for criminals to participate in something is illegal. Besides, using parole as an incentive gives an inaccurate reflection of the true character of the individual as they may be acting in a certain way in order to be released early. This origin is still stupid because you're giving a criminal enhanced cell regeneration. Even if it were legal, there is no compelling reason for this scientist to be experimenting on criminals. Find a volunteer who is not a criminal. It's not hard.

InternetPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2013, 05:24 PM   #54
Artistsean
Monkey Boy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,241
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Changing is fine, like say making the experiment linked to the Captain America Super Soldier program. But changing his origin is a bigger deal, making him not a criminal who is experimented on in prison is like turning Tony Stark into a teenager or having Peter Parker be a mutant. Its just different. It changes his motivations.

Zola experimented on all the men Captain America, in the movie, freed, including Bucky who isn't dead because he returns as the Winter Soldier (according to the director). So its a great comparison. Zola used them as Guinea pigs because he didn't care what happened to them. That picture is of Captain America walking them back to base after saving them from Zola.

In the comics Wolverine was abducted and experimented on and turned into Weapon X, a super healing mutant with metal claws and became uncontrollable. In the movie Logan agreed to it but then went mad and escaped. Its the same idea.
Perhaps AIM reasoned that the criminals in prison would join them once they gave them the power. Its not unreasonable to think that a criminal might join a terrorist group if it got them off of death row and away from the death penalty.
Its also not like Luke Cage would be perfectly behaved in prison either, he could be a guy who gets in lots of fights, is surly, bad tempered to the guards and other inmates, and maybe doesn't seem like a Captain America type to the AIM scientists.

using Parole may be illegal, but its a fictional comic book story, people also don't have super powers. And AIM are terrorists who don't care whats legal. So if they had the run of the prison, lots of criminals to experiment on, I don't think it would bother them that it was illegal. And like I said, the criminals either die, or they kill them, or they join them.

Would it help if they showed that Cage wasn't the only success but that AIM killed all the others, and Cage was able to escape them?

I get that you don't like the idea of experimenting on criminals, but that is his origin as much as Captain America being a skinny soldier who is experimented on during WWII or Peter Parker being a teenager who is bitten by a spider, or Tony Stark being a genius rich inventor, or Reed being a scientist, or Black Panther being the King of Wakanda, or Bruce Wayne being the orphan son who saw his parents killed in front of him.

Artistsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 12:41 PM   #55
InternetPeople
Petty... and tiny
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 365
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artistsean View Post
Changing is fine, like say making the experiment linked to the Captain America Super Soldier program. But changing his origin is a bigger deal, making him not a criminal who is experimented on in prison is like turning Tony Stark into a teenager or having Peter Parker be a mutant. Its just different. It changes his motivations.
The origin I created for Cage still has him as a criminal. He is still wrongfully convicted. He is still a volunteer. His motivations for undergoing the experiment, the desire to get out of jail, is the same. The difference is Cage's story before he was wrongfully imprisoned, his story in the prison (the racism stuff could be touched on but shouldn't be focused on as the film isn't about racism) and the motivations of the scientists conducting the experiments.


Quote:
Zola experimented on all the men Captain America, in the movie, freed, including Bucky who isn't dead because he returns as the Winter Soldier (according to the director). So its a great comparison. Zola used them as Guinea pigs because he didn't care what happened to them. That picture is of Captain America walking them back to base after saving them from Zola.
"There's an isolation ward in the factory but no one has ever come back from it." That is the line spoken by the british dude after Cap frees the soldiers. The soldiers had not been experimented on at that time. That line also implies that all those soldiers who were taken away are DEAD. Bucky is found alive because the experiments had not been concluded.

The soldiers were supposed to die at the conclusion of the experiments while Cage is meant to live. Zola used the soldiers as guinea pigs because he didn't care while the scientist who experimented on Cage did, hence why Cage was chosen for the experiments. These are not comparable as the expected outcomes are different.


Quote:
In the comics Wolverine was abducted and experimented on and turned into Weapon X, a super healing mutant with metal claws and became uncontrollable. In the movie Logan agreed to it but then went mad and escaped. Its the same idea.
Cage didn't go mad. He just wants out of prison. Comic origins and mine agree on this.


Quote:
Perhaps AIM reasoned that the criminals in prison would join them once they gave them the power. Its not unreasonable to think that a criminal might join a terrorist group if it got them off of death row and away from the death penalty.
This is part of the origin I put together for Cage. Did you read it? It doesn't have to be death row but that's a minor point and not worth arguing.


Quote:
Its also not like Luke Cage would be perfectly behaved in prison either, he could be a guy who gets in lots of fights, is surly, bad tempered to the guards and other inmates, and maybe doesn't seem like a Captain America type to the AIM scientists.
Angry black man in jail. Audience may find it difficult to root for that guy.


Quote:
Using Parole may be illegal, but its a fictional comic book story, people also don't have super powers.
This argument gives you the license to do anything. The film still operates in the real world. This is a secondary question that avoids the first and my main issue: Why are you experimenting on a prisoner instead of a volunteer not in prison? AIM was able to gather folks for extremis, why is it impossible to find someone to volunteer for this? People volunteer to strap bombs to their chests, why can't you find a volunteer for this?


Quote:
And AIM are terrorists who don't care whats legal. So if they had the run of the prison, lots of criminals to experiment on, I don't think it would bother them that it was illegal. And like I said, the criminals either die, or they kill them, or they join them.

Would it help if they showed that Cage wasn't the only success but that AIM killed all the others, and Cage was able to escape them?
Wait, what? Why is AIM killing their successes? Where is the logic in what you're proposing? What is the purpose of experimenting on these folks if you are just going to kill them off? I don't get this.


Quote:
I get that you don't like the idea of experimenting on criminals, but that is his origin as much as Captain America being a skinny soldier who is experimented on during WWII or Peter Parker being a teenager who is bitten by a spider, or Tony Stark being a genius rich inventor, or Reed being a scientist, or Black Panther being the King of Wakanda, or Bruce Wayne being the orphan son who saw his parents killed in front of him.
I am not against experimenting on criminals if given the proper motivations and I don't believe Cage's comic origins are good enough to make that leap.

You should really try slowing down and understanding what I wrote. Experimenting on criminals for no reason is dumb. Experimenting on criminals when there should be plenty of volunteers is dumb.

Please read and understand what I have written before you reply. You state that I disagree with things that I do not. It's very clear.

InternetPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 02:28 PM   #56
chamber-music
Hail Hydra
 
chamber-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 22,337
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Cage isn't angry for no reason.Cage anger is justifiable in the context of his comic origin. As long as you explain why the character feels the way he does and acts the way he does audiences will go with it.

Cage is a character that some people always seem to project their own prejudices and racial opinions onto drastically changing his origin won't change those type of peoples views.

Having cage join a terrorist group will not endear him to an audience. Atleast in his comic origin he is only risking his own life by undergoing the experiment. By having AIM be involved he is aiding them in their
endeavours by being involved.

Cage is a superhero Blaxploitation character.




__________________
advanced idea mechanics
chamber-music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2013, 03:48 PM   #57
Artistsean
Monkey Boy
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,241
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space



How about this for AIM's motives. They don't care what the results are. They are
advanced scientists who just want to experiment. One experiment is the Super Soldier
Serum and perfecting it. They use a prison population because they don't care about
what happens to them, maybe the prisoner dies, maybe another prisoner wont, maybe
he joins the side of good against them, and maybe he joins the bad guys. They don't
mind the actual results and the chaos they cause, that is the results. They experiment
and see where that takes them. Then continue from there.
So maybe they don't care what happens to any of the criminals, they just want to
perfect the Super Soldier Serum. How about that, that way they don't care what
happens to Luke Cage or if he becomes another Captain America. Of coarse their
motives wont be the focus of the film, Luke Cage and his life and actions and
character and personality will. But giving them this motivation takes away the
responsibility to explain why they would be willing to give criminals or potential heroes
powers.
In the beginning Fringe had a commercial where a scientists said "He (meaning some
other scientist) is using the world as his lab rats to experiment on." And in recent
Avengers comics Ex Nihlo likes to experiment and mess around and "create" and see
what happens. He doesn't care about what happens, the outcome and chaos is
beautiful to him. The AIM scientists could have a similar motivation. They just love
science and experimentations and invention, so they don't care about the laws that
limit them or the public their experiments effect. I also love this idea, of scientists
unleashing their experimentations on the world, using it for test subjects.
Love it inthe comics. Not for real life.
Just an idea.
Also it leaves it open to a SHIELD/Avengers crossover/interaction. Say the whole movie
is Cage versus AIM. Maybe at the end SHIELD shows up to apprehend the AIM scientists.
Maybe it even ends with the Avengers asking Cage to join, and maybe Cage is just not
ready yet, and who knows, maybe is even upset they didn't step in earlier. Maybe, because
I am just brainstorming ideas about the Avengers and SHIELD.

I actually see no problem with Cage's comic origin, simple. Simple meaning that its
not cluttered with too much explanation story, like many good Pixar films. And like the
South Park guys say, Pixar is the best at stories because they are so simple in terms
of plot. But for those who have problems, maybe the AIM thing could help.



I would LOVE it if Luke Cage's movie character could get to the
point he is in the comics now. Married, father, Avenger. It would
be great. Also include his friend, Iron Fist.


Last edited by Artistsean; 04-13-2013 at 03:59 PM.
Artistsean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2013, 12:20 AM   #58
InternetPeople
Petty... and tiny
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 365
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

A couple questions you need to address for your Cage origin to work properly.

1. So AIM's motives are... what? They don't have any? Whatever happens, happens. Their motivations are "because we can." AIM is a big giant nothing. They have no motivation, they have no goal. They're just doing it because they can. AIM needs a point.

2. Who is Luke Cage's villain? Your origin does not setup any true villain. AIM is the obvious and worthy villain but they are worthless in your origin because they have no direction. AIM needs to be personified in a specific villain or group of villains for Cage to beat up and your origin fails to do this.

Point 1 and 2 are tied together. AIM needs a goal. They experiment on prisoners to create villains to fulfill that goal. Cage, expected villain (this is implied in his history or explained through dialogue), doesn't go along. That's the story but your origin doesn't follow through on that promise because AIM doesn't have a point. Ask yourself this, what happens in your story after Cage gets out of prison? Does AIM go after him? Why were they creating super villains in the first place? What is the plot of this film?

The comic origin for Luke Cage also falls into this trap. The origin story that some of you have posted shows that Cage does not have a natural, villainous individual that came out of his origin. (Actually, society seems like the villain and that is personified in the prison guard) I think staying too close to the comic origin we miss the opportunity to give Cage a purpose besides being the good guy version of a mercenary.

Cage could use a recurring villain like AIM and their villains but AIM first has to have a point.


Last edited by InternetPeople; 04-15-2013 at 12:33 PM. Reason: Because I can
InternetPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #59
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 5,056
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

That is a weakness that a lot of minority and female characters have, a lack of a true villain. Willis Stryker is kind of a joke, snake-codename or no. That's why making the Wrecking Crew Cage's personal villains seems like a brilliant idea. AIM, personified by Director George Clinton and/or MODOK/George Tarleton, puts them after him once he escapes... perhaps after foiling the Wrecking Crew's more villainous escape plan. I'm also inclined to get rid of Burnstein, or, at least, relegate him to the last decent person in AIM.

Also, if there's a trial involved, GREAT place to insert Matt Murdock and/or Jennifer Walters.

Anyway, here's my take right now...
  • Carl Lucas is a down on his luck neighborhood guy, trying to do the right thing, but stuck in a big gang that's on the verge of war.
  • Buddy Willis Stryker is his major negative influence, with Reva Connors as his girlfriend.
  • When Reva is threatened, Lucas tries to get out with her, but Willis sets him up and he ends up in prison.
  • He gets saved from prison riff raff/guards by Dirk Garthwaite and Dr. Elliot Franklin, along with Brian Caulsky and Henry Camp form a bit of a clique.
  • We learn this prison is run by AIM who does a bunch of shady illegal stuff but has all the right people paid off. Including, voluntary experiments that will probably kill you, but could get you some prison perks and maybe even a parole hearing. Or maybe make you live forever, so you actually have to serve that triple life sentence.
  • We also see a lot of other AIM experiments/developments, including the MODOK system, the asgardian 'crowbar' and control collars that set up for later things in the film and MCU at large.
  • In the process of volunteering, Carl meets Director George Tarleton, a strange little man with a lot of issues, and a personal interest in him.
  • He also meets Dr. Noah Burnstein, a decent guy, holdover from WWII who Tarleton keeps under wraps.
  • The experiment/power is explained as cell regeneration that removes the strength/durability cap for the human body, and offers a healing factor as well.
  • Carl, and the rest of the Wrecking Crew undergo the experiment, but Carl finds out they are planning to escape and exact their vengeance upon society "and they can't even report us escaped or else they get investigated." So, before the control collars can be locked onto them, Carl foils their escape, but still takes advantage of their plan, to go save Reva.
  • Escaping, Carl finds himself back in New York, manages to catch a glimpse of Iron Man or Captain America in action. Puts on a cheesy yellow outfit and manages to stop a shoot out with the cops. The hostage thanks him, and offers to write him a check. "Make it out to Ca...." looks around at cops nearby. "Make it out to Luke Cage..." Looking at the check inspires him...
  • Next time we see him, he's coming into his old neighborhood, he finds out Reva has been killed due to Stryker's gang actions, he contronts his old friend, who has cultivated an air of mystique as 'Diamondback'
  • Luke Cage takes on the gangs, defeats Stryker and pretty much single handedly fixes his community. He hands out business cards as a Hero for Hire, does tons of pro-bono work, too. Overnight, becoming a sensation, coming to SHIELD attention and media attention and everything.
  • This brings him to the attention of AIM, who dispatches a collar controlled Wrecking Crew to bring him down or in, and they are more than happy to oblige.
  • Wrecker finds Cage's business card, and the Wrecking Crew makes sure he gets plenty of business, setting him up and beating him senseless in unison.
  • Brought back to the prison, Cage is bereft, and with nothing left, goes about his prison duties in a depressed state. He continues working out, using very large things to do so.
  • The Wrecking Crew enacts their master plan, as Enforcers for AIM, to steal the adamantine rod (crowbar-like) that AIM had recovered from Asgard somehow.
  • Bernstein encourages Luke Cage to act, at which point Burnstein helps facilitate an escape, which gets Burnstein killed, and Tarleton crippled.
  • Cage, with a yellow T-Shirt and black jeans, mounts a rescue on his old neigherhood to stop the Wrecking Crew from detonating a bomb there.
  • Cage uses everything he knows about them to throw them off balance, and his superior strength to keep them on edge. He takes on the two minor ones first, at the same time. Then he faces the Dr, whom he bests verbally more than physically before going head to head against Wrecker and his uber crowbar
  • After defeating the Wrecking Crew, SHIELD steps in, and the AIM prison is shut down. We see Cage on trial, thanks to public defender Matthew Murdock and Assistant DA Jennifer Walters is unable to show sufficient evidence that the drugs/setup from the beginning was his, and he is exhonerated from breaking out of prison.
  • Our last shot is Cage, t-shirt and jeans, doing his press conference, just outside the courthouse, introducing himself to the world. "My name is Luke Cage. I'm the people's superhero. I do shootouts, hostage rescues, mad scientists, and world ending apocalypses. Book me now at HeroesforHire.com." "Mr. Cage, Mr. Cage! Did you say Heroes, plural?" "Yeah, I'm taking applications."
  • Boom. End Credits.
  • Post credits, we see, finally Cage opening up a storefront and then casually moving a car that is parked in his parking spot. That's when Fury shows up. Cage declines, for now...

A little weak, kinda like two movies at the moment, but that's what's in my head. I really do like the "I'm taking applications" line at the moment.


__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - Cyborg TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas - How I'd Have Done the DCCU - FYI: Stark creates Ultron in AoU
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."

Last edited by DrCosmic; 04-19-2013 at 12:42 PM.
DrCosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 05:15 PM   #60
Ant-manic
Side-Kick
 
Ant-manic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,303
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

i wonder if they'd consider making movie-Cage younger; like college age or a bit younger. it might expand the casting pool.

Ant-manic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 06:27 PM   #61
InternetPeople
Petty... and tiny
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 365
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

I like it. Couple minor things.

Willis Stryker/Diamondback. How does he get the name? He just comes up with it while Cage is in prison? How about he has it to start the film, that way the audience can follow along that Stryker is Diamondback rather than trying to figure out why he renamed himself. If Stryker had more screen time then he could be explained but your timeline doesn't seem to devote anything to his character development.

The prison population probably wouldn't like it if regular prisoners were ending up dead with no explanation. Just leave the more cutting edge experiments where dying may occur to death row folks. It's probably easier to just cut that part out all together as it doesn't involve any key players. Hey look, there's some random dude getting experimented on, then he died. What was the point of seeing that? You can imply that is happening without showing it. Cut the dying part and "experiments for perks" works.

You could, maybe, include experiments where someone died in an execution scene. One of your doctors looking at some screen showing vitals or whatever before the person died. Maybe something goes a little wrong and the prisoner almost gets free before he is killed which prompts the development of the collars and advancing the experimenting process which creates Cage and Crew. That could be the opening scene.

Are these the first prisoners experimented on? There probably should be others with very minor powers kept in isolation from the rest of the prison population. Even though they are weak, they wear collars which establishes they exist presently before any accidents (like with death row dude) with overpowered prisoners occur. Cage and Crew could be the first test with the newest process, granting them stronger powers and establishing why there aren't more super powered prisoners like them.

I think you have two films split between Cage/Diamondback and Cage/Wrecking Crew. Doing that would give you the opportunity to develop Diamondback a bit more. As far as I can tell, Stryker as Diamondback had no real story so he could be developed into an MCU villain for Cage similar to Killian in IM3.

I really like what you came up with here. You addressed the issues that I have raised and stayed more true to Cage's comic origins. I would watch this film.

InternetPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2013, 11:48 AM   #62
DrCosmic
Professor of Power
 
DrCosmic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: In the Moment
Posts: 5,056
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Yeah, Diamondback was a stretch. You could put the name as his 'street name' during his introduction before Cage goes to prison... or you could give him a jacket with diamond studs in it along the back (oooh, maybe a trench coat!) and either lampshade the nod or not. But yeah, it'd have to be when he's introduced, not after Cage returns.

You're right, death row for guinea pigs works better. This also takes care of the Reva problem, if the set up involves not only lots of drugs (PG-13 unfriendly), but Reva being found dead in his apartment.... and though I really hate she is a woman-in-refrigerator, I don't know how to get away from that and stay true to her story and leave things wide open for Jessica Jones.

And showing not telling the experiments works better too, like when they're 'touring' AIM or whatever, they get to see some poor sap have it not work out so well for them. Perhaps another nod to a Marvel character there. How bad do we hate Robert Reynolds?

I could also see the low powered prisoners in the background to establish. That AIM establishing stuff has to be rock solid, because that's where we enter the fictional world at, so it's gotta be tight all around, and set up as many things as necessary, maybe as many as possible, accounting for time and phlebotinum overload. As long as it's a whole intact logical system, it should be fine though. Perhaps introduce the Weaker super powered prisoners as used to quell a prison riot in no time.

If I spent more time on it, I would connect the Diamondback/Wrecking Crew stories more to turn it into one film, I'd also tweak the set up of MODOK so he'd be a likely villain for a sequel (Cages or someone else's), and drop in a lot more Easter Eggs (Misty Knight, Colleen Wing), though in the bizzarro world where there's a Luke Cage 2, i'd actually use Purple Man and/or Chemistro. The former because it relates so well to the Jessica Jones storyline, the latter because it's a (the only) powered villain that is actually Luke Cage's. I agree, Diamondback is more of a Killgrave, it'll be interesting to have a Gangbanger Mastermind character, it'd be fun as heck for me to write, take something that's supposed to be unintelligent and seed it with that kind of crazy as a fox stuff.

__________________
WW TV Show Ideas - Cyborg TV Show Ideas - X-Men TV Show Ideas - How I'd Have Done the DCCU - FYI: Stark creates Ultron in AoU
With a Ph.D in Metascience
"Sufficiently understood magic is indistinguishable from science."
DrCosmic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2013, 05:08 AM   #63
InternetPeople
Petty... and tiny
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 365
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

I'm gonna try to build off of what you have because I like it

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post

Anyway, here's my take right now...


Opening scene
  • A man is strapped to a table. It is made clear this is a private execution of a prisoner taking place. Two people, one in a lab coat (Tarleton) and one in a suit (Clinton) are watching several scientists shuffling about from an adjoining room. They have several screens showing vitals and other important information. They give the go-ahead to the folks in the room to proceed with the experiment.
  • The prisoner begins to react to the experiment (skin color, physical size, whatever). Prisoner kills one or two people in the room. Prisoner is executed immediately through some method. Suit congratulates Lab Coat and says "Now control them" and walks out of the room.
This is meant to show the ruthlessness they possess, life is meaningless, and the beginning stages of the experiments. Obvious evil. The fact that there are these types of reactions to the experiments informs the audience that they are not on the up and up and creating the necessity for guinea pigs. This also shows the need for control over the prisoners after the experiments.

Quote:
  • Carl Lucas is a down on his luck neighborhood guy, trying to do the right thing, but stuck in a big gang that's on the verge of war.
  • Buddy Willis Stryker, street name Diamondback, is his major negative influence, with Reva Connors as his girlfriend.
  • When Reva is threatened, Lucas tries to get out with her, but Diamondback sets him up and he ends up in prison.
Me thinks robbery gone bad. Several people die. Diamondback pulls the trigger but leaves Carl Lucas to take the fall. Whole thing was a setup. Public defender sucks.



Quote:
  • He gets saved from prison riff raff/guards by Dirk Garthwaite and Dr. Elliot Franklin, along with Brian Caulsky and Henry Camp form a bit of a clique.
Carl Lucas gets saved during a prison riot by those guys. This is where we see some of the low powered guys deployed to end the riot. Minor powers like increased strength, quickness, impenetrable skin. Maybe something a little more exotic but weak. Easy stuff. They are wearing collars.

This shows advancements in the experiment process and control over the test subjects. These guys can be shown getting perks in another scene. Lucas and Crew take notice of these guys during the riot and their special treatment. Maybe Dr. Franklin can inform the group of things he has figured out about these special inmates.



Quote:
  • We learn this prison is run by AIM who does a bunch of shady illegal stuff but has all the right people paid off. Including, voluntary experiments for prison perks and maybe even a parole hearing.
  • We also see a lot of other AIM experiments/developments, including the MODOK system, the asgardian 'crowbar' and control collars that set up for later things in the film and MCU at large.

Lucas and Crew start asking the right questions and get on the prisons radar as potential test subjects. Lucas is recruited and suggests the Crew to join him... all part of the plan.



Quote:
  • In the process of volunteering, Carl meets Director George Tarleton, a strange little man with a lot of issues, and a personal interest in him.
  • He also meets Dr. Noah Burnstein, a decent guy, holdover from WWII who Tarleton keeps under wraps.
  • The experiment/power is explained as cell regeneration that removes the strength/durability cap for the human body, and offers a healing factor as well.
  • Carl, and the rest of the Wrecking Crew undergo the experiment, but Carl finds out they are planning to escape and exact their vengeance upon society "and they can't even report us escaped or else they get investigated." So, before the control collars can be locked onto them, Carl foils their escape, but still takes advantage of their plan, to go save Reva.
I think Lucas and Crew should all be planning to escape. Lucas has a different idea and uses it for only himself. The reporting escaped or investigated thing works perfectly. Lucas wanted to leave the gang scene, not continue in it so ditching the Crew in jail builds this character arc.



Quote:
  • Escaping, Carl finds himself back in New York, manages to catch a glimpse of Iron Man or Captain America in action. Puts on a cheesy yellow outfit and manages to stop a shoot out with the cops. The hostage thanks him, and offers to write him a check. "Make it out to Ca...." looks around at cops nearby. "Make it out to Luke Cage..." Looking at the check inspires him...
  • Next time we see him, he's coming into his old neighborhood, he finds out Reva has been killed due to Stryker's gang actions.
  • Luke Cage takes on the gangs, defeats Stryker and pretty much single handedly fixes his community. He hands out business cards as a Hero for Hire, does tons of pro-bono work, too. Overnight, becoming a sensation, coming to SHIELD attention and media attention and everything.
For this story to stay as one film, fixing the community needs to be cut. Beat up Diamondback and the gang. Can't get too much attention otherwise he will be looked into. AIM has been scouring the city looking for Cage so they would be the first to pick up on what's happening. Cage may be on SHIELD's radar but AIM takes grabs him before SHIELD can respond.



Quote:
  • This brings him to the attention of AIM, who dispatches a collar controlled Wrecking Crew to bring him down or in, and they are more than happy to oblige.
  • Wrecker finds Cage's business card, and the Wrecking Crew makes sure he gets plenty of business, setting him up and beating him senseless in unison.
  • Brought back to the prison, Cage is bereft, and with nothing left, goes about his prison duties in a depressed state. He continues working out, using very large things to do so.
  • The Wrecking Crew enacts their master plan, as Enforcers for AIM, to steal the adamantine rod (crowbar-like) that AIM had recovered from Asgard somehow.
Personally I hate the crowbar thing in the comics but it's not a sticking point. Can we make AIM send Crew out to do something? AIM was experimenting on these guys for a reason, right? Wrecking Crew should be sent on a "mission" to retrieve something for AIM. Crew still wear the collars so they end up back in prison when they complete the job. They would prefer not to have them but they haven't devised a way to get them off yet.



Quote:
  • Bernstein encourages Luke Cage to act, at which point Burnstein helps facilitate an escape, which gets Burnstein killed, and Tarleton crippled.
  • Cage, with a yellow T-Shirt and black jeans, mounts a rescue on his old neigherhood to stop the Wrecking Crew from detonating a bomb there.
Instead of the bomb, this should be the job AIM wants them to do. We've already seen the neighborhood. They should end up somewhere, like a construction site. Big things to hit each other with to show off their strength and durability. Also stays true to Crew's weapons of choice from the comics. Can't stray too far from their comic origins or someone will claim to be their biggest fan and get all pissy.



Quote:
  • Cage uses everything he knows about them to throw them off balance, and his superior strength to keep them on edge. He takes on the two minor ones first, at the same time. Then he faces the Dr, whom he bests verbally more than physically before going head to head against Wrecker and his uber crowbar
  • After defeating the Wrecking Crew, SHIELD steps in, and the AIM prison is shut down. We see Cage on trial, thanks to public defender Matthew Murdock and Assistant DA Jennifer Walters is unable to show sufficient evidence that the drugs/setup from the beginning was his, and he is exhonerated from breaking out of prison.
  • Our last shot is Cage, t-shirt and jeans, doing his press conference, just outside the courthouse, introducing himself to the world. "My name is Luke Cage. I'm the people's superhero. I do shootouts, hostage rescues, mad scientists, and world ending apocalypses. Book me now at HeroesforHire.com." "Mr. Cage, Mr. Cage! Did you say Heroes, plural?" "Yeah, I'm taking applications."
  • Boom. End Credits.
  • Post credits, we see, finally Cage opening up a storefront and then casually moving a car that is parked in his parking spot. That's when Fury shows up. Cage declines, for now...
A little weak, kinda like two movies at the moment, but that's what's in my head. I really do like the "I'm taking applications" line at the moment.
I love the taking applications line. It sets up potentially working with other heroes. I think Cage/Iron Fist/DareDevil/Punisher could work in a minor Avengers type film taking on a Kingpin like character. If not Kingpin himself, then maybe Purple Man who has manipulated himself into a crime lord role. Tie that into Jessica Jones and Misty Knight cop stuff.

Maybe Jessica Jones and Misty Knight could be in the gang crime unit. They are introduced during the Cage/Diamondback stuff in the first and second acts. They can be shown at the press conference at the end too. The prison is the focus of the film so there's not a lot of room for stuff outside of that. Depending on what's in the other films, these two could have recurring roles as police doing police stuff to help give them more story.

Purple Man could be an AIM experiment who influenced/mind controlled his way out of prison. Maybe he grabbed a couple other prisoners to be henchmen on his way out. These guys are created before the public figures out what's going on at the prison, but after Cage and Crew, so they have legitimate powers.

Diamondback doesn't have to be killed off. He could come back working for Purple Man on the street level. Cage beats him up... again... to figure out what's going on.

MODOK comes back as a Cap villain for AIM or something. Yeah, I don't know how where he fits either.

Quote:


Can't hurt my feelings. I don't read the comics so tell me what sucks or where I went wrong.


Last edited by InternetPeople; 04-21-2013 at 05:21 AM.
InternetPeople is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2013, 11:26 PM   #64
znop
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
wut.

No I don't think that could work. Luke Cage could hardly out-muscle Captain America. Let alone Hulk. Hulk would smash puny Power Man.

Cage and Fury are both from New York. Harlem and NYC respectively. But I dont think they were very close friends in the comics (one being a government spy and one being private investigation).

A lot of people want to see Hulk blasted into space for one reason or the other (including myself) and I wouldn't mind seeing a world destroyed by Ultron. So those parts of your theory could be entertaining.
I might be a little late to mention this but...

Originally, Luke Cage was classified as having "Class 10" Strength making him far, far stronger than Captain America who is consistently rated at "Peak Human" level Strength... So, unless Rogers has or is planning to take another dose and treatment "Super Soldier Serum" as Cage was force to do Rogers will never be capable of "out-muscling" Cage; as Cage is currently in the "Class 25" strength range while Roger's is still at "Peak Human" levels. Thus, without the "Shield" Rogers would get his neck broken if Cage managed to landed a flush Left-Right to Roger's Noggin

znop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:14 AM   #65
metaphysician
Side-Kick
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,763
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Note that none of that is necessarily relevant to the movie, since Cap in the movie is not peak human, he's explicitly superhuman. Granted, it'd be weird if Luke Cage weren't still brickier than Cap, but I suspect it'd end up being a less extreme difference than the comics.

metaphysician is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 10:25 AM   #66
pr0xyt0xin
Shaper Savant
 
pr0xyt0xin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 4,455
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Quote:
Originally Posted by znop View Post
I might be a little late to mention this but...

Originally, Luke Cage was classified as having "Class 10" Strength making him far, far stronger than Captain America who is consistently rated at "Peak Human" level Strength... So, unless Rogers has or is planning to take another dose and treatment "Super Soldier Serum" as Cage was force to do Rogers will never be capable of "out-muscling" Cage; as Cage is currently in the "Class 25" strength range while Roger's is still at "Peak Human" levels. Thus, without the "Shield" Rogers would get his neck broken if Cage managed to landed a flush Left-Right to Roger's Noggin
Why wouldn't Rogers have his shield in this situation? And why would he just let Cage's fist hit him in the side of his head?

I'm saying, Captain America and Luke Cage are far closer to being evenly matched than Hulk and Cage.

And why is this obscurely tragic and tragically obscure thread still around? Did y'all know that when you stop commenting on a thread it eventually disappears?

pr0xyt0xin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:33 PM   #67
znop
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0xyt0xin View Post
Why wouldn't Rogers have his shield in this situation? And why would he just let Cage's fist hit him in the side of his head?
Rogers wouldn't have his shield because when I think of "outmuscling" I rarely include devices or weapons (I.e., "Boxers" don't carry switchblades into the ring during a match).


This is strickly a "Man to Man" fistacuft -- Rogers without his Adamantium/Vibrainum Shield and Cage without his Heavy Duty Carbon Chain (or Wrecker's Crowbar).

Quote:
I'm saying, Captain America and Luke Cage are far closer to being evenly matched than Hulk and Cage.
With this I totally agree... Hence the reason I deny them their weapons. Sure, Luke has steel-hard skin (x2) but, Rogers still has his body armor...

Both are enhanced by a version of the "Super Soldier Serum", both have a sufficient healing factor, and both in their own fashion are consummate masters in their forms of martial arts. But, the biggest and main difference between the two is the fact that Luke Cage possesses superhuman strength (Class 25), stamina, extremely dense skin and muscle tissue which render him highly resistant to physical injury -- while, Captain America has no superhuman powers, but through the Super-Soldier Serum and "Vita-Ray" treatment, he possesses strength (Peak Human), endurance, agility, speed, reflexes, and durability. Cap might be capable of holding his own but a "Class 25" punch to the face should kill him. And, the same applies to "Hulk vs Cage"... Difference being, Cage stands a far greater chance of surviving a naked punch from Hulk than Rogers does (Especially without his shield ).

Cage vs Rogers ---> Winner, Luke Cage!

Quote:
And why is this obscurely tragic and tragically obscure thread still around? Did y'all know that when you stop commenting on a thread it eventually disappears?
  1. Two months of inactivity is not long enough to close a thread.
  2. I believe it's called a "Bump"!
  3. I have to assume this thread is still active because both characters are currently relevant within the pages.


Last edited by znop; 06-02-2013 at 06:39 PM.
znop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #68
chamber-music
Hail Hydra
 
chamber-music's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 22,337
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant-manic View Post
this was revealed in his 90s series; the one set in Chicago.
Cage didn't know Stryker was going to stab the Diablo gang member.

__________________
advanced idea mechanics
chamber-music is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2013, 06:09 PM   #69
Hypestyle
Side-Kick
 
Hypestyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 5,584
Default Re: Luke Cage introduced in Avengers 2, Hulk blasted into space

I hope Luke's NetFlix series has some cool action sequences. It needs to be reflective of the MCU but still be solidly involved in the urban culture of NYC.

Hypestyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.