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Old 12-02-2013, 05:58 PM   #1
Dasher10
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Default Retconning the Age of Characters

Something just hit me. Namely that Cyclops, Storm and Phoenix are going to be WAY too old going forward. How exactly is Fox going to get around this without messing up continuity?

My guesses are A. clones. B. the Siege Perilous de-aging them with memories intact C. Just ignore it, the post DOFP timeline can be just as messed up as the OT D. re-editing the older films or E. they were changed by the Mojoverse.

Does anyone else have any idea on how this can be done? Like when even recasting can't fix these problems, something has to be done to change things.

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Old 12-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

Why do you assume they have any problem with messing up continuity? It's already ****ed up beyond all repair.

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Old 12-02-2013, 06:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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Why do you assume they have any problem with messing up continuity? It's already ****ed up beyond all repair.
This.

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Old 12-02-2013, 11:27 PM   #4
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

The new DOFP timeline allegedly won't be as messed up.

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Old 12-03-2013, 12:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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Cyclops, Storm and Phoenix are going to be WAY too old going forward.
People didn't seem to have a problem with Famke appearing in The Wolverine even if her age is clearly showing.

Casual viewers won't really care about their age, they are already established to the X-Men characters that they portrayed in the previous X-Men movies. And its not like they look so fragile and not fit to wear costumes and do action sequences.

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Old 12-03-2013, 01:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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People didn't seem to have a problem with Famke appearing in The Wolverine even if her age is clearly showing.

Casual viewers won't really care about their age, they are already established to the X-Men characters that they portrayed in the previous X-Men movies. And its not like they look so fragile and not fit to wear costumes and do action sequences.

Remember Robert Downey Jr getting injured on the set of Iron Man 3? There kind of is an age limit.

I personally would use the Siege Perilous as a plot device for Cyclops, Storm and Phoenix. Then they're recast with younger actors. Gambit can die without Stryker's intervention from overloading with energy and then exploding, then he's cloned by Sinister and serves as a Marauder. Wolverine, Sabertooth and Deadpool have healing factors while Beast is covered in a ton of makeup so this is a non-issue for all of them. I'd probably de-age Storm first since she's the character with the most physical role. Cyclops and Phoenix always kind of take over the back ranks and viewers need to believe that Cyclops and Jean can be parents so I'd de-age them a bit later.

That or just use a sliding time scale like the comics and have Deadpool point it out. For instance, stating that Cyclops should theoretically be 60-something and Beast is WAY too old to be fighting on the front lines but it's okay since it's a movie.

Some mutants can also be said to have delayed aging.


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Old 12-03-2013, 01:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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Remember Robert Downey Jr getting injured on the set of Iron Man 3? There kind of is an age limit.
And like as if that stopped him to sign up for Avengers 2/Avengers 3. And all people of all ages get injured on the set all the time.

At this point, recasting Cyke/Storm/jean wouldn't do the series any favors. And if its another prequel, its nothing really new.

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Old 12-03-2013, 02:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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And like as if that stopped him to sign up for Avengers 2/Avengers 3. And all people of all ages get injured on the set all the time.

At this point, recasting Cyke/Storm/jean wouldn't do the series any favors. And if its another prequel, its nothing really new.
I never said to recast them now. I think they all deserve one last role before the recast. Cyclops and Jean should do something with X-Factor while Storm should get a new role in Uncanny/X-Treme/Astonishing/whatever adjective gets picked. I'd like to see some sort of compensation for how they were treated in the OT.

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Old 12-03-2013, 01:05 PM   #9
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Everyone is correct, they did a horrible job with the timeline and misused characters in ways where things can't be fixed.

- There is no way to fix the fact that we saw Scott and Ororo as teenagers back in 1962, which would make them like 55 years old in X1 (unless they just ignore it).

- There is no way to fix the fact that they used Havok, Scott's younger brother, in X-Men First Class, back in 1962, which would make him almost 60 years old in X1 (and Scott's older brother) - (unless they make that Havok the Grandfather of another Havok - which would be pretty stupid).

- There is no way to fix the fact that we were given Emma Frost in 1962 as a 30-something year old woman, and then again as a teenager in 1979 (unless they never use her again, or try to explain that her powers keep her young).

- There is no way to get around the fact that Magento was a teenager back in 1944, which would make him around 95 years old during DOFP.

So, let's face it, the timeline is really screwed up!

If they want to make the X-Men universe a big cross-over type movie universe then they kissed the donkey big time. So, here are their options:

1. Do something stupid that the general audience would never understand, like use the Siege Perilous to de-age all of the charaters and fix the timeline. It's extreme, but at this point it's one of the only ways to actually fix all the junk. But again, the GA just wouldn't get it. it would be over their heads...

2. Just ignore it. Simple enough, but would us fanboys allow them to do that? Imagine that at the end of DOFP all of a sudden everything is just "fixed". And I'm not talking about fixing things like Jean and Scott being dead (which needs to be fixed), but all of the timeline things. Sorry, but they are probably too far gone to do this at this point...

3. Reboot after DOFP or maybe just one more movie!

I know, I know, most don't like this idea, but really, it would be for the best if they really want to expand this whole X-Universe. Think about how tough things will be if they keep things as is, even if they fix Jean and Scott being dead...

- Many of the actors and actresses are aging and can't go beyond maybe one more movie. Stewart, Mcclellan, Berry, etc. will need to be recast real soon.

- X-Factor will be almost impossible.

- X-Calibre will be really difficult.

- And they really can't fix many of the messed up timeline things.

So what's the best option? Yes, reboot! But how to do it...

Why not just accept it, finish DOFP, have it end with the AOA, use the same casts for that movie and then it's time to reboot. We'd be at 2020 for a reboot, which would be fine!

But this time have the actual First Class of Cyclops, Iceman, Beast, Angel and Marvel Girl!

Have that team get into problems in the second or third movie and have Xavier form an international team to save them. Call them the Uncanny X-Men and then have the original team break off and form X-Factor.

Have the Uncanny X-Men have a movie by themselves and then they can have a crossover (Mutant Massacre).

Then have the New Mutants (who some would have been seen in the other movies in cameos) formed and have them go against the White Queen's Hellions. By the second or third movie (with the loss of and addition of members) we would have Cable, and X-Force would be formed.

Excalibur would be formed by the X-Men's Nightcrawler and Shadowcat at some point as well.

They could even get into Aplha Flight in a movie where they come after Wolverine.

Now they would have four or five different teams formed over the course of eight or nine movies, not including any Wolverine team-up movies, and then a huge crossover could happen.

Boy I wish this is what they did in the first place!

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Old 12-03-2013, 01:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

It's really not as bad as some make out, especially if you ignore Origins (as most do and all should)

The OT cast can still work, the First Class cast can still play their younger incarnations. Stick with it.

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Old 12-03-2013, 04:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

Ok, let's stick with it. Does that mean that you are ok with:

- Jean being dead?
- Cyclops being dead?
- Havok being a teenager in 1962, making him older than Scott and unusable in the present?
- Scott and Ororo being what, like mid-50's, in X1?
- Emma Frost being in her mid-30's back in 1962, which means she'll never again be usable?
- Deadpool!?!?
- Juggernaught!!??
- Calisto??!!
- Psylocke being lame and not having the powers she's supposed to?
- The fact that Patrick Stewart is 73 years old?
- The fact that Ian McClellan is 74 years old?
- The fact that Famke Janssen is 48 years old?

And then there are all of the "minor" problems, that most of us are willing to overlook, including:

- The fact that we've had two Moira's.
- We've seen Xavier standing two times when he should have been paralyzed.
- Beast in human form in X1, when his experiment blue furred him up in 1962.
- The young Emma Frost featured in the abomination called Origins.
- Xavier stating that he first met Eric when they were teenagers.
- How it was Xavier and Magneto, working together, who first built Cerebro, but then it was shown to be Beast who built it back pre-1962.
- When Mystique was shot with the cure she reverts to human, when in fact her true form is blue.
- The Hellfire Club being made up of characters who weren't in the Hellfire Club, so now those characters/villains are unlikely.

Are you recommending that they only do movies with the Furst Class actors, so any X-Men movie will need to be in the 70's, 80's or 90's? Kind of kills the idea of a functioning present timeline team, which would mean no X-Force, no X-Factor and no Excalibur.

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Old 12-03-2013, 05:22 PM   #12
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

The most likely sceniro for future X-Men films after DOFP Is to carry on from FC and 1973 parts of DOFP.The other films erased after time travel.

X-Force Is being planned,and that will likely lead Into next X-Men film.Deadpool too.

There Is no need to turn every X-Men title Into a film.X-Factor and Excalibur aren't needed

what happens with the new wolverine film Is up In the air.It could be set in 2 year gap between end of The Wolverine mid credit scene.Or it could also lead Into next X-Men film which Is probally FC3.

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Old 12-04-2013, 02:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

As I've said befoer, Age of Apocalypse isn't doable since it contradicts the leaked Deadpool script and potentially X-Force and Wolverine 3 as well. I'd rather just say that the X-Men use a sliding time scale like the X-Men, it's okay to recast and also Excalibur isn't needed but X-Factor kind of is, if only because Cyclops can't grow as a character while he's on the same team as Wolverine.

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Old 12-04-2013, 02:24 AM   #14
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

Age Of Apocalypse is completely doable. It just wont be an exact replica of the books, just like any other comic flick.
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There Is no need to turn every X-Men title Into a film.X-Factor and Excalibur aren't needed
Agreed. Plenty is going on with nothing in production so far. Gotta see how X-Force and Deadpool play before moving on. The good thing about X-Force/Deadpool is as of right now they do not need to be wrapped around the main team characters from the school or their story. Its in the world but they can exist on their own away from the main X-Men until a crossover takes place. Which is a good thing, cause it will feel like two different franchises coming together. Even more so then DOFP, which revolves around the same characters only younger.

X Factor and Excalibur would more then likely need to involve alot of characters at the school. They can just do main team movies on those characters for now. That said, Im all for a TV show based on one of those.


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Old 12-04-2013, 05:20 AM   #15
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

@Dasher10

Everybody know comic characters are aging slower, so they look 10 years younger than they are.
Cyclops, Storm and Jean are 35+ in TLS, but looks younger. They are around 50 in 2023 DOFP and actors are nearly 50. All 3 can be teenagers in 80's.
I don't see messing up continuity.

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Old 12-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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@Dasher10

Everybody know comic characters are aging slower, so they look 10 years younger than they are.
Cyclops, Storm and Jean are 35+ in TLS, but looks younger. They are around 50 in 2023 DOFP and actors are nearly 50. All 3 can be teenagers in 80's.
I don't see messing up continuity.

Yeah, but wait another five years. They'll be way too old for the roles.

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Old 12-08-2013, 09:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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Age Of Apocalypse is completely doable. It just wont be an exact replica of the books, just like any other comic flick.


Agreed. Plenty is going on with nothing in production so far. Gotta see how X-Force and Deadpool play before moving on. The good thing about X-Force/Deadpool is as of right now they do not need to be wrapped around the main team characters from the school or their story. Its in the world but they can exist on their own away from the main X-Men until a crossover takes place. Which is a good thing, cause it will feel like two different franchises coming together. Even more so then DOFP, which revolves around the same characters only younger.

X Factor and Excalibur would more then likely need to involve alot of characters at the school. They can just do main team movies on those characters for now. That said, Im all for a TV show based on one of those.
im with you bro on like everything.

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Old 12-09-2013, 05:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

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Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
Ok, let's stick with it. Does that mean that you are ok with:

- Jean being dead?
- Cyclops being dead?
For the time being, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- Havok being a teenager in 1962, making him older than Scott and unusable in the present?
Yup, fine with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- Scott and Ororo being what, like mid-50's, in X1?
They're the age of their castmembers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- Emma Frost being in her mid-30's back in 1962, which means she'll never again be usable?
Maybe Singer will use an older Emma Frost like he wanted to in X3. Either way, yup I'm fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- Deadpool!?!?
It's already been said that Deadpool will have little in common with his appearance in Origins, if a film ever gets off the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- Juggernaught!!??
- Calisto??!!
It's a shame they got Ratner'd, but I can live with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- Psylocke being lame and not having the powers she's supposed to?
She was so inconsequential in TLS that I doubt anyone will notice she was there, nor care when she's inevitably reinvented for future films.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- The fact that Patrick Stewart is 73 years old?
- The fact that Ian McClellan is 74 years old?
How young do you want WW2 survivours to be?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
- The fact that Famke Janssen is 48 years old?
She looks incredible still.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
And then there are all of the "minor" problems, that most of us are willing to overlook, including:

- The fact that we've had two Moira's.
- We've seen Xavier standing two times when he should have been paralyzed.
- Beast in human form in X1, when his experiment blue furred him up in 1962.
- The young Emma Frost featured in the abomination called Origins.
- Xavier stating that he first met Eric when they were teenagers.
- How it was Xavier and Magneto, working together, who first built Cerebro, but then it was shown to be Beast who built it back pre-1962.
- When Mystique was shot with the cure she reverts to human, when in fact her true form is blue.
- The Hellfire Club being made up of characters who weren't in the Hellfire Club, so now those characters/villains are unlikely.
Most of those are indeed minor. Others can be fixed (ignoring Origins is a good start)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Jim View Post
Are you recommending that they only do movies with the Furst Class actors, so any X-Men movie will need to be in the 70's, 80's or 90's? Kind of kills the idea of a functioning present timeline team, which would mean no X-Force, no X-Factor and no Excalibur.
I'm recommending that we continue to push forward with the awesome cast that is already assembled, which means getting over the fact that a couple of actors are in their 40s.

McKellen and Stewart are certainly close to bowing out I expect, but they're age appropriate for their roles as long as they want them. We've seen a lot of their characters, and it's not the end of the world if they left.

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Old 12-09-2013, 07:40 AM   #19
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Default Re: Retconning the Age of Characters

Jean and Cyclops were dead in comic too, nothing new to me, can be dead in movie and be alive in new timeline.
Havok is older than Scott in Ultimate.
If you can count Scott and Ororo are in late 30 in X1, not 50.
Emma Frost is 20+ in FC, and we know she likes plastic surgeons, so she can be used in 80's and even later.

Moira from TLS can be daughter of FC Moira. The same with Emma from Origins, daughter, nephew...
Walking Xavier is mind ilusion probably, he did a lot of that in FC.
Xavier could met Erik when they were teenagers near Liberty Statue, and next in 1962. Erik doesn't have to remember meet from 1949.
Beast projected Cerebro, but Erik will help to rebuild it later in mansion.

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