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Old 11-13-2013, 10:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
I can't stand John Williams' Superman score.

The main theme is effective though, especially for the tone of those movies.
I love it. But going that route with MOS wouldn't work. I think if Williams had scored MOS, it would be very different. I'm thinking it'd be more along the lines of his early 2000s scores like A.I., with the action music similar to Minority Report and War of the Worlds.

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Originally Posted by Black Light View Post
Wow. That's a new one. Remember, Williams only scored the original Superman. Ken Thorn scored all of the rest.
Um, you're wrong. Williams scored the first film, and composed new themes for Superman IV (Alexander Courage scored that film). Superman II and Superman III were scored by Thorne.

And of course, Singer's BFF John Ottman scored Superman Returns.

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Old 11-15-2013, 01:38 AM   #27
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Dude,

first, I have greatly enjoyed this conversation. I'm not even an amateur when it comes to music, but I recognize the amazing impact that a great score has on a film audience, myself especially.

So,
on a related note, perhaps you are disappointed, because you have pitched your expectations too high. If you use Williams' original Superman score as
a comparator, then it would be hard not to be let down by anything that
was less than stellar -and something that nobody seems to be able to do today, which is to create instantly recognizable scores and motifs
for film characters.

Having said that, HZ is still pretty damn good (again, I refer to the Joker's motif from TDK, Batman's motif -and the often overlooked Harvey Dent motif- pretty good I'd say).

Personally, I loved what he did with MOS. I felt that the Clark Kent motif was used just enough, in the right places, and that really helped set the mood for those particular parts of the film (e.g. "You're the answer son" ). If anything he erred in bashing Zod's theme a bit too hard, and not giving us enough of the new de facto Superman theme (the end title, teased in the "flight" scene).

Okay, that's old ground, here's my real question. How does HZ's MOS work compare to Silvestri's work in Avengers , or for that matter anyone else doing work in the superhero genre? To my mind, Avengers' score was utterly forgettable, the end title (the Avengers' theme) was only mildly memorable because it was so damn repetitive. Ugh !

I would argue that Marvel has utterly failed to create a memorable theme or motif for any of its marquee characters, because it chops and changes composers so often.
Thor deserves a mighty theme, as does the Hulk but neither has got one.
I remember the music in Iron Man being nicely suited to the action, but not staying with me afterwards....other than the AC/DC (now THAT was a nice touch).

(as I type this I'm listening to the Kung fu panda score, where HZ creates solid motifs for the characters, particularly for the lead, and also pays tribute to some musical conventions used in old style Kung fu films).

By comparison, at least both Batman and Superman have themes that we can recognize when we hear them.


So maybe HZ wasn't quite on Williams' level, but boy he's about as close as current composers get.

Maybe, Howard Shore's in the same class as HZ (I'm basing that on his amazing work in Lord of the Rings, talk about motifs and character, wow !).

Perhaps, listened to with that in mind, HZ's score still may not reach your expectations, but you may discover it's at least strong and distinctive enough to stand out head and shoulders above other super-hero films.

(BTW I concede HZ isn't perfect while I loved TDK's score, I found TDKR too bombastic, it actually over-shadowed the action and pacing, rather than accentuating it. Not great).

Also, MOS shows its musical class, because it has a classic Chris Cornell song,
"Seasons" from way back in 1991. I'm a big Chris Cornell fan, one of the most distinctive male voices in popular/rock music of this generation.

cheers.

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Old 11-16-2013, 01:14 PM   #28
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Originally Posted by mclay18;27213273

Um, you're wrong. Williams scored the first film, and composed new themes for [b
Superman IV[/b] (Alexander Courage scored that film). Superman II and Superman III were scored by Thorne.

And of course, Singer's BFF John Ottman scored Superman Returns.
Absolutely, correct. I was moving fast that day.

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Old 11-16-2013, 02:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Bats
I too, have enjoyed the discussion. Challenging and insightful. Kung Fu Panda is an outstanding score, but a lot of the diversity on the score comes from John Powell (How to Train Your Dragon score was phenomenal). Zimmer's Lilo Shifirin references during the flick are a little hit or miss for my taste. (Side note Shifirin's theme the Magnum Force still blows my mind every time I here it).

I'm glad you mentioned the Harvey Dent Theme from TDK. This is one of my favorites from the film, but the use of trumpets and the violins moving to the upper registers (along with the beautifully intricate string writing) gives this cue away as being written by James Newton Howard. It's very similar to his work on "I Am Legend".

Silvestri's work on Avengers was pretty pedestrian which was odd because I actually liked his work on Captain America.

I think for todays Epic Blockbuster scores here are the guys I'd like to see get more work. John Ottman: His work on X-men 2, Jack The Giant Slayer and even Superman Returns was good. Can't wait to see what he does with Days of Future Past. James Newton Howard did good work on After Earth (horrible movie) and he did great work on The Last Airbender (even worse movie). If you haven't listened to Airbender do so ASAP. It stays in my rotation. I also like what Alexandre Desplat did with the last two Harry Potter films (very intelligent writing). Bryan Tyler is pretty consistent and I'd like so see him go all out superhero. I'd also like to see what Bear McCreary could do with a full superhero movie.

HZ is one of those enigmas. I can't quite tell if the public's tastes changed and he kept his finger on the pulse and tapped in.....or if HZ, through his constant exposure, just rammed his style down everyones throat and we all eventually just drank the Kool-ade. Either way there is a skill to it and he should be commended for it. I do however miss the "Gladiator" HZ.

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Old 11-17-2013, 01:38 PM   #30
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

You're not alone, Black Light. The score has its moments, but overall I found it to be very mediocre-- it compliments the movie but it doesn't elevate it at all (a big no-no for freaking Superman). Which is a shame because I think Zimmer is definitely a fantastic composer.

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Old 11-17-2013, 08:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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You're not alone, Black Light. The score has its moments, but overall I found it to be very mediocre-- it compliments the movie but it doesn't elevate it at all (a big no-no for freaking Superman). Which is a shame because I think Zimmer is definitely a fantastic composer.
Sums up how I feel perfectly.

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Old 11-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

All the fighting music is great and I like Lois/Supes theme that they played. Yet, nothing stood out that think will last the test of time.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 11-17-2013, 08:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Zack Snyder touched upon this in yesterdays live Yahoo! feed talking up the Blu-Ray. I, overtime, have grown to Zimmer's score for MOS. At first I thought it got lost in the film and wasn't as powerful as it should have been. But multiple viewings, it grew on me and Snyder hit it on the head when he described his and Zimmers conversations.

I'm glad Zimmer took the approach that he did. He said he approached it as though MOS is loud and somewhat spectacular in action, Superman is such a humble character at the surface and MOS captured that humbleness of Clark, so that's why he wanted many quiet moments within the score. Though we get that marching-beat in the action scenes, it's still a humbling score by nature and to Zimmer, Superman is a humbling character amidst his stance as a God roaming planet Earth and I think he captured that perfectly in MOS.
This.

The score is hands down one of the best parts of the movie. If Batman is allowed to move past the still beloved Elfman and 1960s theme, then why can't Superman?

Sure John Williams is still a classic, but like Snyder and Co., I approached the film without keeping Donner's Superman in mind and I felt Zimmer's score suited the film's tone and feel well. I remember where I was when I first saw the MOS trailer with Zimmer's An Ideal of Hope and what a tear-jerking day that was. Finally we have music that captured the epic and mythological feel and yet humbled feel the comic book artist Alex Ross tried to aim for.

This is a different Superman for a newer era where the John Williams theme doesn't have to follow Superman around. I for one do not envision the Williams theme playing when Superman's fighting Doomsday lol.

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Old 11-18-2013, 12:37 AM   #34
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I really liked the score. But music is such an individual taste. If you ever go to a music message board its a mess You cant get anyone to agree on anything lol.

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Old 11-18-2013, 12:43 AM   #35
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

The score was amazing to me. I am biased though because I felt that ALL aspects of the film were amazing. I think when the years go by and you see fan made tributes and fan trailers of all kinds cribbing the music we'll see how much influence the score will have. This is my favorite superhero film music work since Elfman's Spider-Man work.

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Old 11-19-2013, 08:53 AM   #36
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I'm just glad Snyder moved away from Williams's score. I don't remember much of Zimmer's score but I do remember that it was good.

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Old 11-19-2013, 09:56 AM   #37
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I loved Zimmers score overall, but yesterday I couldn't help but understand some complaints on the sense of danger in MOS, partly IMO cause of the score. I think there were times were I felt that I knew Supes was gonna prevail.......I mean we all know as superman fans, Lois isn't gonna die, but the GA might not....Zimmer should of used a more drama filled tone In some parts, for instance, when Supes saved Lois the 2nd time in the cornfield.....I loved the heroic theme that was playing when he was flying after Lois, but just by the tone I knew he was gonna save Lois.....I think this is were SR was better in certain scenes....just my 2 cents...

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Old 11-28-2013, 04:35 PM   #38
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Zimmer's work on MOS is why I'm weary about him scoring The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (especially because Horner did such a fantastic job on the first one).

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:36 AM   #39
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Zimmer's work on MOS is why I'm weary about him scoring The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (especially because Horner did such a fantastic job on the first one).
I do agree Horner did a fantastic job. I actually think Horner is better suited for ASM2 than Zimmer. However, I do think Zimmer did a fantastic job on MOS.

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Old 11-30-2013, 06:39 AM   #40
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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The score was amazing to me. I am biased though because I felt that ALL aspects of the film were amazing. I think when the years go by and you see fan made tributes and fan trailers of all kinds cribbing the music we'll see how much influence the score will have. This is my favorite superhero film music work since Elfman's Spider-Man work.
I agree on MOS. I actually think that is one of the best parts of the film. I definitely think the Superman theme "What Are You Going to Do When You're Not Saving the World" is beyond incredible. Much more action packed yet very triumphant. Flight and Arcade are insanely good. Arcade is in some ways the best I've heard from Zimmer since Molossus from Batman Begins.

I thought the music was perfect. I would like to see more triumph in MOS2..but I think the feel of the movie was meant to create not so much a superman feel but a journey into Superman feel. Which is why you really don't hear the full main theme until the end scene.

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Old 11-30-2013, 04:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I love the Zimmer music. Flight and Arcade are epic IMO. I'm glad someone finally for the courage to dump the 1970's theme.

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Old 12-01-2013, 05:18 AM   #42
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I think MOS' score was a very great encapsulation of HZ's work in film this last decade. He has a knack for creating scores that are not obtrusive to the action on screen, yet also enhance narrative, and character and plot moments. But he is also capable of going right for the big crescendos and hitting big emotional buttons. Having the music in MOS be more traditional while also having that TDKT style of almost having the music be almost it's own SFX, or be it's own emotional dialog if you will, that all tells me that HZ put a lot of effort into this score. That being said, just like the TDKT scores since there is no one totally distinct motif for the headlining protagonist (Yeah, I know Supes has one... WE HEAR IT IN IT"S TOTALITY OVER THE CREDITS) per se, akin to Elfman or Williams, it's easy to overlook how integral both Snyder and Nolan made his work to the overall finished product.

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Old 12-09-2013, 05:34 PM   #43
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I didn't care for Zimmmer's score at first, then I warmed up to it.

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Old 12-09-2013, 06:25 PM   #44
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

It reminds me of Han Zimmer's Batman themes; at first, I like the score from Batman Begins, but it was a mixture of Elfman and Zimmer in some regard, with Elfman taking the top spot. Over time, with Dark Knight and Rises, I liked it even more, and have tied Zimmer's score with Elfman's equally, separately, and sometimes Zimmer topping Elfman.

MOS is the same way. While I'm glad we got something other than Williams, because I preferred they create something new instead of reusing old stuff, and I liked Zimmer's score, Williams is still ranked above his with some exceptions. Once we get new films, even if they get a new composer who uses Zimmer's stuff, that's when it'll grow on me.

I hope that wasn't confusing, because I like Zimmer's score. It's just that, we need more of it to make a difference. If anything, I was only disappointed in the soundtrack not having all of the music cues from the film that I wanted to listen to. Other than that, I was fine.

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