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View Poll Results: What is the bar of success for Superman/ Batman at the WW box office?
$600- 699 M (The level at which a $200 M film profits) 2 2.44%
$700-799 M 6 7.32%
$800-899 M 13 15.85%
$900-999 M 8 9.76%
Over $1 Billion 27 32.93%
Bigger Than The Dark Knight Rises (Highest grossing DC film) 12 14.63%
Bigger Than The Avengers (Biggest Superhero movie ever) 13 15.85%
Bigger Than Titanic (#2 film ever) 1 1.22%
Bigger Than Avatar (#1 film ever) 0 0%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-15-2013, 01:23 AM   #51
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by KillerMcQueen View Post
movies getting sequels isn't entirely dependent on box-office. SR outperformed BB at the BO, but it got worse reviews, and a generally "meh" audience reaction, and as a result dvd sales suffered, which doesn't bode well for a sequel. BB however, despite having a less impressive BO got better reviews, audiences generally really liked it, and its dvd sales were great, so a sequel was likely to do very well.
"Superman Returms didn't get a sequel because iit was a box office disappointment. They expected it to make $500 million or more but came far short of that.

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Old 12-15-2013, 01:29 AM   #52
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by dnno1 View Post
"Superman Returms didn't get a sequel because iit was a box office disappointment. They expected it to make $500 million or more but came far short of that.
Dnno1, how do you know that? I remember reading they were "happy" with the returns, but considering it didn't get a sequel then I'm assuming they weren't that happy. How do you know that specific number if you don't mind me asking?

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:17 AM   #53
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Dnno1, how do you know that? I remember reading they were "happy" with the returns, but considering it didn't get a sequel then I'm assuming they weren't that happy. How do you know that specific number if you don't mind me asking?
They were saving face. Superman Returns cost WB about $100 M more than Batman Begins and grossed roughly the same amount.

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Old 12-15-2013, 02:29 AM   #54
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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They were saving face. Superman Returns cost WB about $100 M more than Batman Begins and grossed roughly the same amount.
Ahhha...okay. I figured it was just a lie. I mean obviously they are not going to come out and say, "We lost money", but I don't really remember reading any news reports about it being a financial failure either.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 02:32 AM   #55
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I don't think it was just the money, either. There was no where good for the sequel to sr to go. They wrote themselves into a corner. I don't remember too many folks being excited about a sequel, but I could be wrong.

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Old 12-15-2013, 03:18 AM   #56
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Many Many Many Many Many people were saying MOS was a billion easy.

The marketing campaign was tremendous and wide reaching and personally the best I had seen since Avatar. Simply blanket marketing and a massive 150 million dollar marketing budget and 170 million dollars worth of product tie-ups and so many tours and displays around the U.S. and memorablie galore with tickets or standins or coloring books or toys or clothes or blankets or anything.

It was insane.

The result of that? 660 million worldwide.

Take in the production budget of 225 million and it does seem ok but not great.

People should realize that their anticipation for a movie is not equal to GA's anticipation for the movie.

I think those saying it will make more than Avengers have lost the plot.

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Old 12-15-2013, 03:58 AM   #57
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by slumcat View Post
Many Many Many Many Many people were saying MOS was a billion easy.

The marketing campaign was tremendous and wide reaching and personally the best I had seen since Avatar. Simply blanket marketing and a massive 150 million dollar marketing budget and 170 million dollars worth of product tie-ups and so many tours and displays around the U.S. and memorablie galore with tickets or standins or coloring books or toys or clothes or blankets or anything.

It was insane.

The result of that? 660 million worldwide.

Take in the production budget of 225 million and it does seem ok but not great.

People should realize that their anticipation for a movie is not equal to GA's anticipation for the movie.

I think those saying it will make more than Avengers have lost the plot.
Do not confuse a loud minority to be the consensual opinion around this forums. Most predictions for MOS at the time that i recall were a minimal of 550mill to a maximum of 800 mill. Even those billion predictions were viewed as a joke by many in this forum.
Regardless you can not compare MoS to BvS simply because the former does not have the brand and to some extent the novelty that the later has. That being the most popular superhero in the world in batman and the top two comic book heroes in the world in a movie for the first time respectively.
Additionally, the Batman casting, riddled with controversy was itself a marketing tool has enabled WB to create an insane awareness level for this movie among the general audience without even spending a significant amount of money on marketing. So in this regard, its not being far fetched or deluded to expect a box office return of a billion as it was in MoS.

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Old 12-15-2013, 04:20 AM   #58
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by Juha Bach View Post
Do not confuse a loud minority to be the consensual opinion around this forums. Most predictions for MOS at the time that i recall were a minimal of 550mill to a maximum of 800 mill. Even those billion predictions were viewed as a joke by many in this forum.
Regardless you can not compare MoS to BvS simply because the former does not have the brand and to some extent the novelty that the later has. That being the most popular superhero in the world in batman and the top two comic book heroes in the world in a movie for the first time respectively.
Additionally, the Batman casting, riddled with controversy was itself a marketing tool has enabled WB to create an insane awareness level for this movie among the general audience without even spending a significant amount of money on marketing. So in this regard, its not being far fetched or deluded to expect a box office return of a billion as it was in MoS.
I can't believe anyone would expect a comic book movie(or a non-sequel for that matter) to gross 1 billion in its first go around. The top grossing series starters in terms of comic book movies are Spider-man(821m) and The Amazing Spider-man(752m). Nowhere close to a billion. MOS is sitting pretty at #3 with 662m.

Regardless of marketing and people with expectations, if you look at the history of the box office, 1 billion was highly unrealistic. Only Avatar, Titanic and Alice in Wonderland have grossed a billion without being a sequel/prequel. And the highest grossing CB franchise starter is Spider-man at 821m.

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Old 12-15-2013, 04:56 AM   #59
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

i thought it would make a billion but then the reviews hit the **** hit the fan. i knew then it wasn't going to make as much because of that. there isn't anyone who can convince me that if it was as a good a film as tdk, it wouldn't have made as much as tdk. of course, we're talking nolan and snyder, and while snyder has what he has over nolan, i shouldn't have snyder to make as good a film as tdk. as great as i thought mos was.

of course, a fairer comparison should have been begins.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:14 AM   #60
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers View Post
They were saving face. Superman Returns cost WB about $100 M more than Batman Begins and grossed roughly the same amount.
Superman Returns was going to get a sequel. But Bryan Singer left development in 2007 for Valkyrie (it's no secret he and WB had different parameters for success), then the writers left, and in 2009 the series was scrapped.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:24 AM   #61
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I actually think that though box office is one measure of success, it is not the only one. I also don't think with a characters like Superman or Batman that is all that is tallied for this great numerical equation.

If the movie makes a billion then great, but I don't think the studio needs it to make a billion for them to make a profit. We fans would certainly like it to make that much so we can lord it over other fandoms. I mean that is the point right...lol

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:30 AM   #62
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by charl_huntress View Post
Dnno1, how do you know that? I remember reading they were "happy" with the returns, but considering it didn't get a sequel then I'm assuming they weren't that happy. How do you know that specific number if you don't mind me asking?
There were reports in the news that quoted studio execs as saying as much.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:34 AM   #63
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Wow way too early to count the chicken b4 hatch.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:48 PM   #64
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by slumcat View Post
Many Many Many Many Many people were saying MOS was a billion easy.

The marketing campaign was tremendous and wide reaching and personally the best I had seen since Avatar. Simply blanket marketing and a massive 150 million dollar marketing budget and 170 million dollars worth of product tie-ups and so many tours and displays around the U.S. and memorablie galore with tickets or standins or coloring books or toys or clothes or blankets or anything.

It was insane.

The result of that? 660 million worldwide.

Take in the production budget of 225 million and it does seem ok but not great.

People should realize that their anticipation for a movie is not equal to GA's anticipation for the movie.

I think those saying it will make more than Avengers have lost the plot.
This has Batman in it, though a two-time Billionare's club member IN ADDITION to Superman, who's first film just out-grossed any Marvel Phase 1 solo film, including those starring the enormously popular Iron Man.

Look, I'll be honest. I'm about 80% a Marvel guy, 20% a DC guy. I don't have DC fan boy goggles on, and Man of Steel made exactly what I thought it would. A joint Superman/ Batman film is a completely different beast than a sequel to MoS or even a new Batman solo.

This film will make $1 Billion, unless it's the most critically reviled piece of since whatever Uwe Bole last made.

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Old 12-15-2013, 05:56 PM   #65
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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There were reports in the news that quoted studio execs as saying as much.


dnno1, thank you for posting that! That's what I wanted to read because I had read all the initial things that said they were happy...blah blah.

Now, SR is a good example of what might constitute a failure. It didn't need to make a billion even then though there were people (me included...lol) who thought it would.

A billion would be nice, but I hope people know that's may not be needed for it to actually be a success in the studios eyes.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:58 PM   #66
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I have a feeling WB is expecting a billion, but I think that's pretty risky. Like DAChampion said, a billion is the exception, not the norm.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:00 PM   #67
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

This film is going to surprise some people........when it flops big time, don't expect anything monumental from this film.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:21 PM   #68
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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This has Batman in it, though a two-time Billionare's club member IN ADDITION to Superman, who's first film just out-grossed any Marvel Phase 1 solo film, including those starring the enormously popular Iron Man.
Just because the Nolan films were popular doesn't mean that people will always flock to see Batman movies because of Nolan's contributions. You have to take into account that Christian Bale is not going to be in this movie, and we have a different creative direction for Batman. Already it has deviated from Nolan's films, meaning that comparing TDK and TDKR's box office success is completely irrelevant. That being said I must ask, how is TDK and TDKR's box office success even relevant to MOSII?

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Look, I'll be honest. I'm about 80% a Marvel guy, 20% a DC guy. I don't have DC fan boy goggles on, and Man of Steel made exactly what I thought it would. A joint Superman/ Batman film is a completely different beast than a sequel to MoS or even a new Batman solo.
You being a Marvel guy should know better than most people about how these things work. Let's not forget, a LOT of people were very skeptical about how Avengers would work and it took Phase I to build up to an eventual blockbuster. For Superman/Batman film, we know absolutely nothing about how the plot would be structured, if Affleck is fantastic in his role, if Superman is irrelevant because of the inclusion of other DC characters. It leaves way too many questions that no one should even be thinking $1bil until we see what direction WB/DC/Snyder/Goyer is taking. At least Marvel's Phase I answered some of the questions so that when you go into the Avengers, you know what you're expecting.

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This film will make $1 Billion, unless it's the most critically reviled piece of since whatever Uwe Bole last made.
Again, we still don't know. A lot of people said MOS is auto-billion dollars (not keeping in mind that no origin story reboot has ever grossed 1bil) and look how silly they look now.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:35 PM   #69
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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I know we fans speculate on box office, but I always wonder what is the real bottom line for a movie studio when it comes to calculating box office returns and what not. I remember WB saying they were happy with the returns for SR, but there was no sequel. So...were the really happy or were they just lying and it was a failure? BB also didn't have that huge of a box office return if I remember correctly, but there was a sequel for that.

I would imagine some movies box office returns make a studio want a sequel so they can continue to capitalize, but what's the barometer if they already initially have plans for one?
The general rule of thumb in Hollywood is that a film needs to make back 3 times it's budget to be considered a success and it needs to make back twice it's production budget to break even.


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Old 12-15-2013, 06:40 PM   #70
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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The general rule of thumb in Hollywood is that a film needs to make back 3 times it's budget to be considered a success.
Just out of curiosity, did MOS achieve this? Not asking to be rude, but because I don't know and I'm curious.
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This film is going to surprise some people........when it flops big time, don't expect anything monumental from this film.
I'm sure it's going to surprise some people. Awesome assessment.

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:49 PM   #71
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Just out of curiosity, did MOS achieve this? Not asking to be rude, but because I don't know and I'm curious.I'm sure it's going to surprise some people. Awesome assessment.
It's current worldwide gross is $662,845,518, while it's budget was $225,000,000.

So it's just under 3 x it's budget, which is a good result for WB. Though considering the investment I'd say they were hoping for more around the 800 million mark.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #72
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Personally I think Batman v. Superman will make around 700-800 million. Considering it's going to be a very crowded summer in 2015. I think the reviews are going to play a big part in the film finding it's 'legs'. Though studios don't like to admit it, the Tomatometer and Metacritic ratings do play a large part in a film's gross and can be the discerining factor in a film becoming a record breaking hit, or simply being a success.

The other thing you have to consider is that DC films are tentpole productions. The success of these films and the money they make are integral to the studio and funding smaller projects. As a result these films often have huge expectations put on them. The people saying WB was disappointed and expected a lot more are probably right.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:57 PM   #73
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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It's current worldwide gross is $662,845,518, while it's budget was $225,000,000.

So it's just under 3 x it's budget, which is a good result for WB. Though considering the investment I'd say they were hoping for more around the 800 million mark.
Thank you for providing that. Do you know if they use any other sort of measure to add to that figure like Blu-ray/DVD sales, or does that fall under another budget?

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:58 PM   #74
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Thank you for providing that. Do you know if they use any other sort of measure to add to that figure like Blu-ray/DVD sales, or does that fall under another budget?
I'm not sure.

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Old 12-15-2013, 06:59 PM   #75
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I didn't know films had to make so much to profit. The entertainment business is harsh.

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