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View Poll Results: What is the bar of success for Superman/ Batman at the WW box office?
$600- 699 M (The level at which a $200 M film profits) 2 2.44%
$700-799 M 6 7.32%
$800-899 M 13 15.85%
$900-999 M 8 9.76%
Over $1 Billion 27 32.93%
Bigger Than The Dark Knight Rises (Highest grossing DC film) 12 14.63%
Bigger Than The Avengers (Biggest Superhero movie ever) 13 15.85%
Bigger Than Titanic (#2 film ever) 1 1.22%
Bigger Than Avatar (#1 film ever) 0 0%
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:24 PM   #176
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Well, in theory, BvS shouldn't need as big a budget, or certainly not a bigger one, as there'll be less CGI action sequences.

Man of Steel would have lost a quite a bit of money, but WB were paying for an investment. BvS would probably need to get to the billion mark (with $400 million made domestic at least) to be profitable if it has Man of Steel's budget. But then again, this is another investment project.

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Old 12-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #177
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
Well, in theory, BvS shouldn't need as big a budget, or certainly not a bigger one, as there'll be less CGI action sequences.

Man of Steel would have lost a quite a bit of money, but WB were paying for an investment. BvS would probably need to get to the billion mark (with $400 million made domestic at least) to be profitable if it has Man of Steel's budget. But then again, this is another investment project.
Well, we do know that they are building a batmobile in Michigan as we speak, and who knows if there will be other vehicles that Batman will be using in the film. You also have Wonder Woman, and we do not know if she will have her invisible jet or will be flying out right.

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Old 12-20-2013, 06:47 PM   #178
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Well, in theory, BvS shouldn't need as big a budget, or certainly not a bigger one, as there'll be less CGI action sequences.
Why do think there will be less CGI action?

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:50 PM   #179
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

At the moment? Purely because there probably won't be any Kryptonian v Kryptonian fights, or spaceship v spaceship or dragon things.

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Old 12-20-2013, 06:56 PM   #180
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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At the moment? Purely because there probably won't be any Kryptonian v Kryptonian fights, or spaceship v spaceship or dragon things.
But there's Doomsday (supposedly), Batman and Wondy? Seems like there should be more action this time around, or at least it should be comparable.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:03 PM   #181
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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But there's Doomsday (supposedly), Batman and Wondy? Seems like there should be more action this time around, or at least it should be comparable.
Supposedly is the important part there, I'm assuming everything is crap until we get something a little more "official". Batman can be done with little CGI, Wonder Woman is the only wildcard, and it's unknown how much she will even be in the thing, she could have less time than Lara did in Man of Steel.

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Old 12-20-2013, 07:10 PM   #182
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Supposedly is the important part there, I'm assuming everything is crap until we get something a little more "official". Batman can be done with little CGI, Wonder Woman is the only wildcard, and it's unknown how much she will even be in the thing, she could have less time than Lara did in Man of Steel.
Very good points! I hope we get confirmation about rather Momoa is in it and who he is playing. My money is still on Metallo, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is Doomsday.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #183
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Mamoa solves the darksied riddle imo



comes with the brow and everything.

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Old 12-20-2013, 08:48 PM   #184
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

^^Really? You want him to be more human looking? We were talking about him or another actor being mocap or something, but I don't think he really has the talent for that IMO. Maybe Serkis will come in and school him.

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:20 PM   #185
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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^^Really? You want him to be more human looking? We were talking about him or another actor being mocap or something, but I don't think he really has the talent for that IMO. Maybe Serkis will come in and school him.
I'd rather something be as practical as possible.
Unlike the hulk or even smaug I don't see Darkseid as some big fat magical creature. If anything final crisis drove that point home. After the presence he brought drogo in game of thrones, even in the scenes where he just sat on the throne, that in combination with his brass voice and physicality and stature I'd be happier with him as darksied than a mindless or even mindful(bad idea) doomsday.

Would be cheaper too.
I don't see Darksied needing the acting range of a Daniel Plainview.

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Old 12-20-2013, 09:43 PM   #186
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Very good points! I hope we get confirmation about rather Momoa is in it and who he is playing. My money is still on Metallo, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is Doomsday.

I believe Metallo or Doomsday also for Momoa. Maybe Orion, but I doubt it. Doomsday will not need a a great actor with range. Just an actor who can bring some physical intimidation and brute force for fight/action scenes.

I also feel Momoa will probably be speaking in some alien language and we will see subtitles IF he winds up being cast as Doomsday.


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Old 12-20-2013, 09:55 PM   #187
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

^^I'm saying they will need a good actor if they use mocap for Darkseid or Doomsday for that matter. IMO, actors have to have a range of abilities to pull off that sort of performance a la Serkis.

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:34 PM   #188
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Superman was never supposed to compete against "marvels juggernaunt" Both of WB's batman hits couldn't even do that(not even TDK's domestic). Superman does however compete with Ironman(and all the rest). MoS surpassed the first 2 IM's World Wide figures and his sequel no doubt would have as well.

After Joss Whedon things changed when it come to the perception of marvel's success and track record. That being said, coming out of the mega zeitgeist event, the Ironman brand(due in part to him starring in avengers) was red hot and I suspect coming out of of this thing the MOS2 numbers will be in a real place compete.

The shrewdest part of this move by wb comes when you look at what avengers did for all things marvel. I take a moment to imagine how hotly anticipated Guardians(of all things) and Cap2 are, or even thor2 and IM3(coming off of 2) would have been...
If WB can create that sort of mega momentum for their brand with an successful event film, then not only will a wondy film be buzzy, not only will affleck have a running start, not only will the next chapter in mos be IM3 level overhyped but they might....might even be able to start talking about green lantern again.

A successful traditional MOS2 wouldn't have done that. The sooner this film happens the sooner WB can really start moving all the pieces. Momentum goes along way.

I don't understand why someone would say a solo Superman reboot film was supposed to compete or gross as much as the Avengers did at the box office?

Wow, I just do not understand that take at all!

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Old 12-20-2013, 10:36 PM   #189
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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^^I'm saying they will need a good actor if they use mocap for Darkseid or Doomsday for that matter. IMO, actors have to have a range of abilities to pull off that sort of performance a la Serkis.

Momoa would just need to do well doing fight sequences and action. Shouldn't be any problem for him at all with or without Mo-Cap style CGI.

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Old 12-21-2013, 07:43 AM   #190
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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If anything final crisis drove that point home.
Well then you missed the point. Darkseid wasn't just possessing Turpin, there is no body in all of reality that could contain his body:






Darkseid isn't the person, he's that funky looking thing behind them. He's not a being, when people say "Darkseid is evil" it's not using a adjective, it's a proper noun, all evil is Darkseid. Final Crisis reflects that more than any other Darkseid story.

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Old 12-21-2013, 12:48 PM   #191
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

The point is simply, you don't need an 8foot tall cg creature to tell a darkseiid story. He's not the hulk or godzilla whom themselves are literally that.
Even Darkseid being a 5 foot tall titan with presence is a stretch but fully within reason.

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Old 12-21-2013, 12:57 PM   #192
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

If you're going to give him a presence and stature befitting of a god, the visage of an almost regular human is not at all satisfactory.

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Old 12-21-2013, 01:04 PM   #193
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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The point is simply, you don't need an 8foot tall cg creature to tell a darkseiid story. He's not the hulk or godzilla whom themselves are literally that.
Even Darkseid being a 5 foot tall titan with presence is a stretch but fully within reason.
Yeah. No reason that Darkseid can't be "Prowsed" assuming that they can't find an actor with BOTH the presence AND the voice.

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Old 12-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #194
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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If you're going to give him a presence and stature befitting of a god, the visage of an almost regular human is not at all satisfactory.
Agreed...and I'm not exactly sure how they could achieve that with out making him a mocap/CG character.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-21-2013, 01:09 PM   #195
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

WETA's a really good company, but I REALLY hate that CGI orc leader in the Hobbit.

I want maybe a traditional/cg hybrid for Darkseid. I'd love to see real physical texture on his face, but with a body that looks like it could never be human.

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Old 12-21-2013, 01:12 PM   #196
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

He's not human though. IMO he shouldn't look human either.

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-21-2013, 01:13 PM   #197
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

My ideal actor to play Darkseid was Michael Clarke Duncan. He had the physicality and the booming menacing voice. It's too bad that he passed away.

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Old 12-21-2013, 01:16 PM   #198
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.



I don't think this looks human. I don't think CG is necessary for otherworldliness, but I also think it's necessary to do what makeup cannot.

I don't think DS needs to be pure CG, but I also don't want him limited by a human in a suit.

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Old 12-21-2013, 01:21 PM   #199
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

A Darkseid dressed in a costume like that would look funny to me and like something from the Dark Crystal.

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Originally Posted by Rowsdower! View Post
I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-21-2013, 01:29 PM   #200
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

The mocap na'vi and davi jones weren't "all bad", people tend to always think of the worst examples when detracting from cg actors.

If the character isn't going to be doing impossible stuff(see ironman) the way spiderman does, then I'd personally opt for a practical approach, what does the guy do other than stand walk and run around with his arms at his side? Practical attemps almost never come under criticism. Far less than failed cgi anyways. And it can ease off of budget costs.

This idea that the image on screen for darkseid needs to be slavishly accurate has resulted in this sort of misguided direction
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Congrads, you nailed the look I guess.

The reality being he's not some giant rock element but rather a traditional character.

Use that as your launching point. How far removed is it from the likes this


I say go with that approach but with
this guy
He seems into this sort of thing and his voice pretty much edges out anyone on the planet currently.

I know zack loves cgi but he also loves actors.

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