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View Poll Results: What is the bar of success for Superman/ Batman at the WW box office?
$600- 699 M (The level at which a $200 M film profits) 2 2.44%
$700-799 M 6 7.32%
$800-899 M 13 15.85%
$900-999 M 8 9.76%
Over $1 Billion 27 32.93%
Bigger Than The Dark Knight Rises (Highest grossing DC film) 12 14.63%
Bigger Than The Avengers (Biggest Superhero movie ever) 13 15.85%
Bigger Than Titanic (#2 film ever) 1 1.22%
Bigger Than Avatar (#1 film ever) 0 0%
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Old 12-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #201
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

He needs to look menacing. I really don't care how they achieve that, but I would prefer they keep some traditional aspects of the character. It does not need to be slavishly devoted to that look, but he should be recognizable as Darkseid.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 12-22-2013, 08:32 PM   #202
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I think the minimum bar for success for this film is $800 million worldwide (once you factor in production and P&A costs). Good buzz and WOM will help greatly.

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Old 12-22-2013, 09:44 PM   #203
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

I'm thinking over 900 mil for sure. Not sure if it'll reach a billion, but it has a damn good shot to do so!

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Old 12-23-2013, 02:57 AM   #204
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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WETA's a really good company, but I REALLY hate that CGI orc leader in the Hobbit.

I want maybe a traditional/cg hybrid for Darkseid. I'd love to see real physical texture on his face, but with a body that looks like it could never be human.


Agreed. The CGI for the Orc leader in the Hobbit films is not done well. Jackson should have used makeup and prosthetics like he did for the Orc leader in the first LOTR film.

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Old 12-23-2013, 03:01 AM   #205
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Honestly, IF this doesn't reach a billion, I can see quite a few people...both the heads at WB and some fans considering it a "slight disappointment".

People will probably say on how a film with the DC trinity should be more than enough to make a billion, especially if the likes of Transformer 3 and Iron Man 3 could make a billion on their own, etc.

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Old 01-03-2014, 08:53 AM   #206
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Apparently Michigan's shooting budget is $131 M. Given this will be only Gotham's scenes, I imagine a budget of $250 -300 M is now guaranteed. Add in a P&R Budget that will approach $200 M (Avengers had a marketing budget of $175 M) and we're looking at a film that needs to make $800-900 M to see a penny of profit.

Avengers allegedly needed to clear $1.1 Billion to see profit after legit production costs ($300 M) P&A ($175 M) and Downey's % cut off the back end ($75 M). If the costs are indeed comparable, slight growth for Batman/ Superman is not on the table.


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Old 01-03-2014, 08:57 AM   #207
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers View Post
Apparently Michigan's shooting budget is $131 M. Given this will be only Gotham's scenes, I imagine a budget of $250 -300 M is now guaranteed. Add in a P&R Budget that will approach $200 M (Avengers had a marketing budget of $175 M) and we're looking at a film that needs to make $800-900 M to see a penny of profit.

Avengers allegedly needed to clear $1.1 Billion to see profit after legit production costs ($300 M) P&A ($175 M) and Downey's % cut off the back end ($75 M).
BvS budget will atleast be more than a solo film. Well the last 2 DC solo films cost 250 million (TDKR) and 225 million (MOS) respectively, so I am thinking atleast 270 or maybe even 300 million might be the budget.

By the way, Avengers official budget is 220 million. Where are you getting 300 million from?

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Old 01-03-2014, 09:08 AM   #208
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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BvS budget will atleast be more than a solo film. Well the last 2 DC solo films cost 250 million (TDKR) and 225 million (MOS) respectively, so I am thinking atleast 270 or maybe even 300 million might be the budget.

By the way, Avengers official budget is 220 million. Where are you getting 300 million from?

The official trading card series + Variety listed $300 M. It was leaked mid shoot that the film cost "At least $260 M."

A lot of budgets are fudged to placate shareholders. Watch Iron Man 2 and then watch Avengers, and tell me that Avengers only has a $20 M budget increase. The presence of The Hulk alone would add another $20 M.

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Old 01-03-2014, 09:15 AM   #209
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers View Post
The official trading card series + Variety listed $300 M. It was leaked mid shoot that the film cost "At least $260 M."

A lot of budgets are fudged to placate shareholders. Watch Iron Man 2 and then watch Avengers, and tell me that Avengers only has a $20 M budget increase. The presence of The Hulk alone would add another $20 M.
Well the budget during shooting and after the books are closed can look very different. There are a lot of rebates and stuff that happen after the fact that bring down the budget.
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=avengers11.htm
Mojo reports it as 220 and their numbers are usually very accurate.

And I would say that frankly Avengers doesn't look like a particularly expensive film. I love it, but there are only two major CGI components - the hell carrier and stuff taking place around it and in it and the battle for New York.

The CGI in that movie is not as copious. What we see in that movie is seen even in Transformers movies. I think the majority of the budget must have gone is negotiating with the all star cast.

MOS at 225, looks like a much much much more expensive film than Avengers.

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:30 AM   #210
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Can someone please explain to me how product placement money is factored in?

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:52 AM   #211
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Can someone please explain to me how product placement money is factored in?
Im not sure what you mean by factored in, it is just extra money the studio gets from the movie. Just like how they get a percentage of the profits from selling merchandise.

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Old 01-03-2014, 11:36 AM   #212
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Originally Posted by KangConquers View Post
Apparently Michigan's shooting budget is $131 M. Given this will be only Gotham's scenes, I imagine a budget of $250 -300 M is now guaranteed. Add in a P&R Budget that will approach $200 M (Avengers had a marketing budget of $175 M) and we're looking at a film that needs to make $800-900 M to see a penny of profit.

Avengers allegedly needed to clear $1.1 Billion to see profit after legit production costs ($300 M) P&A ($175 M) and Downey's % cut off the back end ($75 M). If the costs are indeed comparable, slight growth for Batman/ Superman is not on the table.
There's two problems there:

1. Avengers production budget wasn't 300M; assuming your getting the 300M from BoxOffice.com, check the asterisk. That's their estimate *including* marketing costs.

2. Marketing budgets are largely funny money, and the home of most of the creative accounting. They aren't nothing, but a *lot* of the money spent on marketing is not actual money. Its stuff like IP usage rights.

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Old 01-05-2014, 08:51 PM   #213
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Most "$200 M" movies are actually $300 M movies, due to promotion and advertising. Double that.
really? it costs an additional 100 mill just to promote the film? I'd think it'd be like 20 or 50 but a whole 100...

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Old 01-05-2014, 08:53 PM   #214
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

It's not a big surprise. Most, if not, all big budget films have those kinds of costs. MOS had like $170 million.

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Old 01-05-2014, 08:54 PM   #215
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

You're paying for airtime several times an hour on several channels all around the world. $100 million is a bargain.

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Old 01-05-2014, 08:56 PM   #216
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

that's insane. $600 million dollars makes a film a blockbuster. so every $200 million dollar film has to hope to beCOME a blockbuster in that case.

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Old 01-05-2014, 09:22 PM   #217
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

And it needs most of the money to be made in the US to be profitable to the producers.

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Old 01-05-2014, 09:54 PM   #218
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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And it needs most of the money to be made in the US to be profitable to the producers.
oh my god, seriously? so overseas box office doesn't mean anything for them??

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Old 01-05-2014, 09:55 PM   #219
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Anything it makes overseas would just be gravy for them.

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:07 PM   #220
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

if the budget is indeed as rumour said as 131M; a WW box office of 400M is a success to me.

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:12 PM   #221
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

131 Is JUST for the Michigan shoot. Not taking to account the shoots in Monaco, Illinois, and Toronto. So we're looking at anywhere from a $235-250 million budget.

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:13 PM   #222
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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if the budget is indeed as rumour said as 131M; a WW box office of 400M is a success to me.
I think the article meant that they'll have $131 to use JUST for the stuff that they're filming in Michigan. They definitely have a larger budget then that. No way they go from having had $225 million for MOS to $131 for the sequel.

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:22 PM   #223
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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$350 million is actually a lot for a production budget, but since Batman is in this picture, I believe they could easily get away with spending that much and still making a profit.
I think you're going to end up being right dnno1.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 01-05-2014, 11:24 PM   #224
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

Yeah, $350 million ain't happening.

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Old 01-05-2014, 11:25 PM   #225
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Default Re: The box office "bar of success" for Batman/ Superman.

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Yeah, $350 million ain't happening.
I concur, I'd say 250mil is the highest they may go. If they get 300-350, well, ****...

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