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View Poll Results: Which superhero film do you prefer?
The Avengers 15 40.54%
Batman 89 22 59.46%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2013, 05:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

A Batman vs. Marvel movie in a DC/Batman movie poll. I wonder which one will win.

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Old 12-27-2013, 05:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

Where is the Batman (1966) v. The Avengers (2012)?

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Old 12-27-2013, 06:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

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A Batman vs. Marvel movie in a DC/Batman movie poll. I wonder which one will win.
Yeah seriously lol. Creating this thread in this section was just a bad idea.

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Old 12-27-2013, 10:35 PM   #29
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I dig Loki in the solo movies but i thought he was an awful villain choice for Avengers. He came off as a joke in the hands of Whedon. It seems like he didn't know how to handle any of the Thor characters properly. Loki was the cornball villain who gets his ass handed to him by 1 member of the team. A proper villain in a team-up should be a huge threat to any individual member AND still be a threat when the team of good guys try to go up against him all at once.
Agreed. As soon as they got a little humor in Loki could work fine, they went the obvious way: let's overplay it!

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Old 12-28-2013, 10:40 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by milost View Post
A Batman vs. Marvel movie in a DC/Batman movie poll. I wonder which one will win.
Oh well of course you want to go post one in the Avengers thread, people can't handle their precious Avengers not coming out on top.

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Old 12-28-2013, 10:52 AM   #31
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

The Avengers.

Batman (1989) is a terrific film until the final showdown. The Prince music at the parade was unbearable and the miniature sequences involving the Batwing have not aged well. At times, Nicholson lapses out of playing the Joker and plays himself. Plus, Alfred letting Vicki into the Cave was not a wise decision (and that is why I liked how Sam Hamm(?) took a jab at the decision in the following film.) At last, but not least, I either love or hate the decision to have Napier involved with Batman's origins; it really depends on the day.

Do not get me wrong: I enjoy the film, but it is considerably flawed. However, I find Batman Returns to be a superior film in every regard and damn near flawless. As for the Avengers, it's a fun a popcorn movie. While it does not have a specific look like Batman (which mixed several schools of architecture and design,) the focus was on the spectacle, which it delivers. What makes it fun is that it is a blend of two different comic continuities (1960's Marvel and the Ultimate Line, both of which emerged during two different Wars, and supplies a lot of political food for thought. Not that I am saying Batman does not; as Cconn pointed out, the film examines the narcissism of the 1980's; I find the Avengers leaves a better taste after the viewing than Batman, even though Burton is one of my favorite directors.)

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"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
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Old 12-28-2013, 11:05 AM   #32
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

For something focused on spectacle, The Avengers was very lacking of that, if it trully was focusing on that then Michael Bay would be proud.

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Old 12-28-2013, 11:42 AM   #33
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

Avengers is focused on spectacle. But the scenes in between start feeling void in the second watch.

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Old 12-28-2013, 08:52 PM   #34
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Alfred letting Vicki into the Cave was not a wise decision (and that is why I liked how Sam Hamm(?) took a jab at the decision in the following film.)

I don't see why this is always criticized. What is wrong with Alfred escorting Vicki into the Batcave?

We see throughout the film that she's following Wayne. She's taking pics of him in the streets, follows him into Crime Alley, etc. Vale is trying to figure him out and wants to know why Wayne lied to her. Slowly but surely she keeps breaking down the facade. She sees that Bruce is traumatized by the gun fire at City Hall. She looks for as many files on Wayne as she can (even though they're pretty much non-existent). She thinks he's dead but then finds that his body disappeared, then discovers that silver plate with the Jokers snub bullet inside. Then, back at the Gotham Globe, she sees the infamous WAYNE MURDERS article and puts it together. 90% of what she does in the film is investigating both Bruce Wayne and Batman, and she figures it out. We see it. Alfred? He doesn't want Bruce to do this Batman thing and doesn't think it's healthy. He literally wants him to settle down with Vicki Vale and stop the vigilante gig so he doesn't get killed. This was done before TDKR was cool.

So, is it not natural that a photojournalist who just figured out Wayne/Batman's secret and the butler/surrogate father who wants Bruce to live a "normal" life, would interrupt Wayne when he's trying to work? Of course that would happen. The only scene "missing" was Vicki going up to the Wayne Manor door and saying to Alfred, "I know, let me talk to him" (in a similar fashion to what Blake did in TDKR).

I'll never understand why that was seen as so "wrong" when both characters were shown and capable of doing just that with their actions. I really like how Bruce is noticeably ticked off and annoyed by it too and how he gets up from his station abruptly like he just got caught with his pants down.

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Old 12-28-2013, 08:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

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I don't see why this is always criticized. What is wrong with Alfred escorting Vicki into the Batcave?

We see throughout the film that she's following Wayne. She's taking pics of him in the streets, follows him into Crime Alley, etc. Vale is trying to figure him out and wants to know why Wayne lied to her. Slowly but surely she keeps breaking down the facade. She sees that Bruce is traumatized by the gun fire at City Hall. She looks for as many files on Wayne as she can (even though they're pretty much non-existent). She thinks he's dead but then finds that his body disappeared, then discovers that silver plate with the Jokers snub bullet inside. Then, back at the Gotham Globe, she sees the infamous WAYNE MURDERS article and puts it together. 90% of what she does in the film is investigating both Bruce Wayne and Batman, and she figures it out. We see it. Alfred? He doesn't want Bruce to do this Batman thing and doesn't think it's healthy. He literally wants him to settle down with Vicki Vale and stop the vigilante gig so he doesn't get killed. This was done before TDKR was cool.

So, is it not natural that a photojournalist who just figured out Wayne/Batman's secret and the butler/surrogate father who wants Bruce to live a "normal" life, would interrupt Wayne when he's trying to work? Of course that would happen. The only scene "missing" was Vicki going up to the Wayne Manor door and saying to Alfred, "I know, let me talk to him" (in a similar fashion to what Blake did in TDKR).

I'll never understand why that was seen as so "wrong" when both characters were capable of doing just that with their actions. I really like how Bruce is noticeably ticked off and annoyed by it too and how he gets up from his station abruptly like he just got caught with his pants down.
Agreed. I think Vicki's reaction to Knox's "What do you suppose something like this does to a kid?" line was supposed to show she was connecting the dots. Because that's clearly the intent of the scene given what Knox's line is supposed to mean to us, the audience.

I figure she suspected and hinted it the Alfred, who in an effort to get Bruce off this path, lets her in to 'talk sense' to him. I mean, in Alfred's previous scene, he bluntly states he doesn't want Bruce to die doing this stuff ("I have no wish to fill my few remaining years grieving for the loss of old friends... or their sons").

Could have been presented in the narrative more definitively, but that's what was intended, I think. The novelization has the 'talk' scene happen in the Wayne Manor study as opposed to the Batcave, so that's probably how it was in Hamm's draft, I think? Anyhow, even there it's clearly intended that Vicki's figured it out.

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Old 12-28-2013, 10:13 PM   #36
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

I'm with you, milost and DocLathropbrown. I never ever had a problem with that scene. Alfred insisted the whole movie about Bruce bei9ng honest with Vicky, and she had gotten almost the whole puzzle solved anyways.

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Old 12-29-2013, 04:18 AM   #37
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Avengers.
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Old 12-29-2013, 06:44 AM   #38
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huh? You think Jack Nicholson's Joker wasn't as good as Loki? Funny how it's only on the internet that i see people liking Loki, around here i don't know anybody who likes him and some of the reviews of the film talked about the villain being one of the weakest parts of it. I don't know how the situation is in the USA though.
I like him more, just for the scens in Stark Tower

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A Batman vs. Marvel movie in a DC/Batman movie poll. I wonder which one will win.
Batman & Robin beats them all

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Old 12-29-2013, 02:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

I didn't like The Avengers so Batman wins by default.

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Old 12-29-2013, 03:56 PM   #40
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Since The Dark Knight has done enough battle with these two, I figured I'd put them up against each other.
So you got tired of the million TDK vs ... threads. And wanted to stir up crap between the fans of Marvel and Burton's Batman. Looking at your sig I don't find that hard to believe.

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I don't really like either, but Batman at least feels to me like there is an actual director behind it with a vision (I don't like that vision for the most part, but there is one there), compared to The Avengers, which feels to me like a studio-driven product instead of a film.
Meaning I don't like MCU movies or Burton's take on Batman b/c I have a hard-on for Nolan's TDKT. But since it's Batman then Batman 89 it is. Seriously your post comes off like a bitter jealous DC/Batman fan.

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Yup. Plus ill take Batman over any of those heroes.
Meaning I don't like MCU movies or Burton's take on Batman b/c I have a hard -on for Nolan's TDKT. But since it's Batman then Batman 89 it is. Seriously your post comes off like a bitter jealous DC/Batman fan.

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Weird comparison, but Batman 89 all the way. I think it will have more historical significance in the long run. Also, The Avengers is extremely forgettable and disposable IMO. Once the jokes wear off, there really isn't much to that film.
The Avengers is FAR from forgettable and disposable. It seems that people like to belittle it b/c it isn't dark, gritty, or thought provoking but b/c it manage to make a lot of money it's forgettable and disposable. I've seen the same nonsense happen with Spider-Man and Avatar. There were plenty of memorable moments in Avengers for me, ALL of the action scenes were memorable (Cap. vs Loki in Germany, IM vs. Thor in the forest, the entire Helicarrier attack sequence, the entire battle in NYC), the confrontation between Loki and Stark in Stark Tower, the small moments in the Helicarrier between Stark and Banner, Stark and Rogers, Coulson and Thor's conversation dealing with Jane, Coulson's death, the introduction of IM at Stark Tower between him and Potts, when Fury and the Avengers were at each others necks b/c of Loki's spear, Thanos' reveal, etc. The movie was far from disposable, imo. It is rare for me to see a movie (Spider-man, X2, Spider-man 2, and Superman Returns) twice let alone three times (The Avengers) in the theater. Avengers was the only time I've seen a movie 3 times (all different days) at a movie theater. I enjoyed it each viewing. And would've seen it a 4th time if I had the time and money. No movie I've seen at the theater in 2012 even measured to those experiences. Not Skyfall, not TDKR, etc. Just b/c it ain't your cup of tea doesn't mean it was forgettable or disposable.

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huh? You think Jack Nicholson's Joker wasn't as good as Loki? Funny how it's only on the internet that i see people liking Loki, around here i don't know anybody who likes him and some of the reviews of the film talked about the villain being one of the weakest parts of it. I don't know how the situation is in the USA though.
Not true. Critics praised him. Hiddleston pulled a RDJr with Loki he pushed the character into the A-list. He even won an MTV movie award for it, which I know isn't anything special, but still the GA love him. Loki is more popular than he ever was thanks to the Avengers. I heard somewhere that Marvel even had Whedon write in more Loki scenes in Thor 2.

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I dig Loki in the solo movies but i thought he was an awful villain choice for Avengers. He came off as a joke in the hands of Whedon. It seems like he didn't know how to handle any of the Thor characters properly. Loki was the cornball villain who gets his ass handed to him by 1 member of the team. A proper villain in a team-up should be a huge threat to any individual member AND still be a threat when the team of good guys try to go up against him all at once.
He didn't come off like a joke. That's like saying RDJr made IM a joke.Thor 2 kept Loki's sarcastic sense of humor. A lot of the comical and funniest moments in Thor 2 were with his character. Critics even stated that he stole that movie. So I fail to see how Whedon made the character a joke. Loki is more popular than he ever was thanks to Marvel Studios, Hiddleston and Whedon .

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A Batman vs. Marvel movie in a DC/Batman movie poll. I wonder which one will win.
Exactly. This thread is only an excuse to stir up crap between the fans of the Burton movies and MCU films. With that said the votes will obviously be lopsided.


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Old 12-29-2013, 04:32 PM   #41
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Not true. Critics praised him. Hiddleston pulled a RDJr with Loki he pushed the character into the A-list. He even won an MTV movie award for it, which I know isn't anything special, but still the GA love him. Loki is more popular than he ever was thanks to the Avengers. I heard somewhere that Marvel even had Whedon write in more Loki scenes in Thor 2.
Reread my post, i'm talking about how the situation is here on my country, in Portugal i don't know anybody who liked Loki, which is why i said that i'm not sure how he situation is in the USA, and from the looks of it he is much more popular there.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:22 PM   #42
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The Avengers is FAR from forgettable and disposable. It seems that people like to belittle it b/c it isn't dark, gritty, or thought provoking but b/c it manage to make a lot of money it's forgettable and disposable. I've seen the same nonsense happen with Spider-Man and Avatar. There were plenty of memorable moments in Avengers for me, ALL of the action scenes were memorable (Cap. vs Loki in Germany, IM vs. Thor in the forest, the entire Helicarrier attack sequence, the entire battle in NYC), the confrontation between Loki and Stark in Stark Tower, the small moments in the Helicarrier between Stark and Banner, Stark and Rogers, Coulson and Thor's conversation dealing with Jane, Coulson's death, the introduction of IM at Stark Tower between him and Potts, when Fury and the Avengers were at each others necks b/c of Loki's spear, Thanos' reveal, etc. The movie was far from disposable, imo. It is rare for me to see a movie (Spider-man, X2, Spider-man 2, and Superman Returns) twice let alone three times (The Avengers) in the theater. Avengers was the only time I've seen a movie 3 times (all different days) at a movie theater. I enjoyed it each viewing. And would've seen it a 4th time if I had the time and money. No movie I've seen at the theater in 2012 even measured to those experiences. Not Skyfall, not TDKR, etc. Just b/c it ain't your cup of tea doesn't mean it was forgettable or disposable.
In his defense, he didn't forget to say it's his opinion

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Reread my post, i'm talking about how the situation is here on my country, in Portugal i don't know anybody who liked Loki, which is why i said that i'm not sure how he situation is in the USA, and from the looks of it he is much more popular there.
I'm not in the US, can't tell how popular it is where I am
Most of my friends saw it in theaters when it was new, heard nothing about it after that

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Old 12-29-2013, 10:06 PM   #43
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Meaning I don't like MCU movies or Burton's take on Batman b/c I have a hard-on for Nolan's TDKT. But since it's Batman then Batman 89 it is. Seriously your post comes off like a bitter jealous DC/Batman fan.
I'd rather you didn't jump to conclusions, thank you very much. I loved Iron Man and Iron Man 3 and liked Thor: The Dark World, The Incredible Hulk and the first half of Captain America: The First Avenger. Thor and Iron Man 2 were kinda meh. The only one I really hated was The Avengers. But thanks for jumping to the conclusion that I don't like MCU movies based on my opinion on one of them. If you had asked any of the other MCU movies besides The Avengers vs Batman 89, I would have picked them instead. Even if Nolan's trilogy didn't exist, I wouldn't like Batman 89 much since I don't care for what he did with his version. Others can like what he did, that's fine, but I don't care for his creative decisions, the same way others don't care for ones made in the Nolan films.

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Old 12-29-2013, 11:49 PM   #44
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Well I don't see the point of somebody choosing between two movies he/she doesn't care for.

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Old 12-30-2013, 05:05 PM   #45
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

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The Avengers is FAR from forgettable and disposable. It seems that people like to belittle it b/c it isn't dark, gritty, or thought provoking but b/c it manage to make a lot of money it's forgettable and disposable. I've seen the same nonsense happen with Spider-Man and Avatar. There were plenty of memorable moments in Avengers for me, ALL of the action scenes were memorable (Cap. vs Loki in Germany, IM vs. Thor in the forest, the entire Helicarrier attack sequence, the entire battle in NYC), the confrontation between Loki and Stark in Stark Tower, the small moments in the Helicarrier between Stark and Banner, Stark and Rogers, Coulson and Thor's conversation dealing with Jane, Coulson's death, the introduction of IM at Stark Tower between him and Potts, when Fury and the Avengers were at each others necks b/c of Loki's spear, Thanos' reveal, etc. The movie was far from disposable, imo. It is rare for me to see a movie (Spider-man, X2, Spider-man 2, and Superman Returns) twice let alone three times (The Avengers) in the theater. Avengers was the only time I've seen a movie 3 times (all different days) at a movie theater. I enjoyed it each viewing. And would've seen it a 4th time if I had the time and money. No movie I've seen at the theater in 2012 even measured to those experiences. Not Skyfall, not TDKR, etc. Just b/c it ain't your cup of tea doesn't mean it was forgettable or disposable.
I'm glad you had that experience with the movie, as millions of others did. I did not. I was forced to see it a second time and it only got less enjoyable for me once I could see all the one-liners coming. I have no desire to see it again, it did nothing to effect me on any emotional level whatsoever. It has nothing to do with it not being dark and gritty. I like the Raimi Spider-Man movies, I like Star Wars, I like Indiana Jones...to me all of that stuff has more heart and substance than The Avengers.

But I'll be the first to admit that the movie simply wasn't my cup of tea. Maybe if I had a younger brother or a son that I took to see it, I'd see it in a different light and enjoy it through their eyes. But taking the film at face value, I just don't get it. What's the driving theme? What pulls it all together? Some mumbo jumbo about team work and working through differences? I couldn't tell you. It all just feels like a flimsy excuse to get the all these heroes in the same movie, just like the plot feels like a flimsy excuse for them to argue and then have to work together. So IMO it's fluff- disposable and mindless entertainment. That doesn't mean it didn't resonate with a lot of people- obviously it made a ton of people connect with their inner child and have a great time at the movies. I don't see anything wrong with that. It just didn't work for me. I had hoped it would be clear that what I was stating was merely one guy's opinion.

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In his defense, he didn't forget to say it's his opinion.
Thanks for pointing that out.

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Old 01-19-2014, 04:54 PM   #46
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

Avengers- 9.3/10

Batman 1989- 7.4/10

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Old 01-20-2014, 12:17 PM   #47
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Default Re: Batman 89 vs The Avengers

^Not sure what source you're posting from, but IMDB has them fairly close, though Avengers has heaps more votes.

Batman 7.6/10
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096895/?ref_=nv_sr_3

Avengers 8.2/10
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0848228/?ref_=nv_sr_1

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Old 01-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #48
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Maybe it's just a personal score?

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Old 01-21-2014, 12:35 AM   #49
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Maybe it's just a personal score?

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