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Old 12-06-2013, 06:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

Actually, i'dd say American Comics do this most often, while with Japanese manga a half sexualizes, while the other doesn't, problem is largelly the role of the female characters.

There's also a large difference between sexualising men and women, most american comics are targeted at a male audience, and the way men are presented is mostly as a self fantasy, since they are presented in "masculine" positions, with women, they are not, they're not being empowered by the experience, there are a lot of images parodying that actually, but right now this was the best i could find:



If it was a man (you never see something like that actually):



Imagine a man in her position now too:



Most female characters have the bodies of porn stars except for a few exceptions now and then, though men also have a similar problem, it seems like they are a bit more varied, but that's a story for another day, since the art itself is much more subjective.

It's not completelly wrong to sexualize a character now and then, i won't really criticise Power Girl because the "window" is one of he most known elements of the design, but it shouldn't be the norm as it is right now.

About anime/ manga, it seems like the audience is more varied, so men aro sexualised a lot of times too, just not in shonens. While the treatmen of women is sometimes laughable, they also have more stories geared towards them, the audience of their mangas are Basically split in men and women, which is more than i can say for American Comics.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:38 AM   #27
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

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That's how I felt with 24 and Lost. But there's an ending somewhere over the horizon.
I've never watched 24, but I did Lost, and at the least it felt like it was moving forward during most of it's run. Berserk just got to a point where I felt like there was no real progression in the narrative. After the Golden Age stuff mostly, it just became so derivative. I haven't read it in quite a while, though, so maybe it's changed. I don't particularly know if I care enough to go back and try it. It was interesting enough, but I was never in love with it or anything.

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Old 12-16-2013, 11:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

I was resistant to anime for a very, very long time. I watched the cut up American version of Sailor Moon as a kid, loved Pokemon and gave Dragonball Z a passing glance ones or twice but that was about it. I hated Dragonball Z as a kid really, which made me an outcast from most of the other boys Anime just rubbed me the wrong way. The animation itself looks amazing, but the overly dramatic voice acting and OTT reaction shots (I still don't know the term for those. You know the faces that get big in anger or the giant sweat beads or the bloody noses and all that jazz) pushed me away.

When manga took over my high school I was just like...."pffft, screw that I have my Batman, Spider-Man and other comics. I don't need to waste time with manga."

I loved the Miyazaki films and Akira but I never considered them "anime" out of my own stubborn and idiotic rejection of genre and word itself. I just saw them as animated movies from Japan. I mostly had this dumb mindset because they lacked the trademarks I saw in other anime that turned me off.

I was half dragged into watching the the original, uncut Sailor Moon by my now wife and once I got over the annoying voice acting and OTT exaggerated reactions I got into the complete craziness that is the plot. The animation is great and as the show progresses the character get real depth the plots become truly interesting. I dug it. Still not enough to make me dive deeper into anime though.

I just recently, a few days ago in fact, started watching anime. I saw Sage from TGWTG do a top 20 giant robots countdown. Most of said robots were from the mecha anime genre. Now, I love another Japanese institution: Godzilla. One of my favorite kaiju from Godzilla is Mecha-Godzilla. I also love Pacific Rim, the Iron Giant, Transformers, the America cut of Voltron, and I like most kids in the 90s adored Power Rangers. So giant robots have always appealed to me. I knew peripherally that the mecha genre was huge in Japan but never really gave it much thought. Not until Sages video did I say "Hey, this stuff looks freakin' cool."

So I contacted my anime loving buddy and he gave me a list of his personal favorites. I was strictly wanting only mecha but he only had one on his list which was Evangelion. I had heard of it but know it's heavy and wanted something a little lighter to start with so I started watching Gurren Lagann and Giant Robo. Both of which are entertaining the hell out of me. I also started Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood which is his favorite. While it has the trademarks that annoy me it is pretty awesome so far. I've powered through the first season and a half in two days and it's only getting better and better.

I'm pleased to finally be interested in anime. It's culture fascinates me and I can't wait to dive into more.

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Old 12-22-2013, 04:33 AM   #29
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

Another reason I love anime is that I've enjoyed watching it in different languages. I first watched anime in Arabic when I was a child. When shows like Black Lagoon, Noir, and Le Chevalier d'Eon are European languages it brings a different dimension. I have no interest in watching American superhero cartoons in a different language. X-Men movies in French were amusing, but not how I'd want it be.

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Old 12-22-2013, 04:41 AM   #30
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

I generally watch anime in Japanese with subtitles.

There are actually some decent dubs out there, but, really, it's going to be hard to beat the actors who were actually chosen and coached by the people who made the thing in question. Or in some cases, even had a part in developing it.

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Old 12-27-2013, 02:25 PM   #31
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

I remember the first time I saw anime was Akira and I was too young to understand it. My friends were more into anime and I was still sheltered in my mind from the "weird" Japanese animation. I like anime now but I'm not a super obsessed anime fan. I love Ghost in the Shell and Claymore. Tough female characters, interesting stuff going on. GITS obviously paved the way for The Matrix but it's miles ahead of it in lots of ways.

I loved Claymore up until the last minute and read about how the manga doesn't end there and I'm very curious about picking the book up. Anyone read it?

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Old 12-29-2013, 06:38 PM   #32
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

My childhood was the 80's in Lisbon so basically all cartoons were Imports. From Lucky Luke , He-man, future-boy Conan, We got all kinds of graphic styles and storytelling, so exaggerated expressions don't really bother me, neither do some simpler animation styles. With that in mind:

I do hate when it's scene after scene of esoteric comedy slapstick, with time you get what the codes mean but some just become indecipherable.

I love most of the storytelling gimmicks anime uses in order to convey movement, action, emotion. Most importantly when this gimmicks are used to enable a level of detail impossible to animate in a more Disney-tradition way.

I hate when they use this type of gimmicks in very simple designs, often used in mass production crap that is little more then anime-styled 60s captain America animation.

I love their mechanical designs, current Iron man movie armors have nothing on the original bubblegum crisis hard-suit designs. From guns to battle ships it payed that many of the first designers for anime had mechanical engineering backgrounds...

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Old 01-27-2014, 11:18 AM   #33
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

Nice to see another Portuguese around. What i sometimes dislike in the anime fan base i can access is that the Ocident seems to not accept exageration and some of the fun in many Anime/ manga very easily and prefer more "edgy" or "realistic" series, using that aspect as an excuse for saying that it's better than the more fun stories.

This is by far one of the reasons for many years One Piece seemed to remain on the shadows of Naruto, and OP is still ignored by many anime fans and viewers even now. It doesn't help that the anime has barelly any animation in it for most of the time, very similar to the Marvel super heroes cartoons from the 60s.

The younger fanbases also tend to classify any new serious and well told manga/ anime that has gotten into the mainstream as "the best anime ever!", as is evidenced by some Death Note fans and used to be more serious with Naruto fans, who have went on to be called "narutards" by others who disliked this type of reaction.

Some of the anime/ manga audience also have a wrong perception of what is a classic, i remember some arrogante viewers/ readers thinking Naruto was the best anime of all time, while Dragon Ball was bad, with them accepting this as the base judgement of this media, when in reality, the most hardcore fanbase seems to now despise Naruto, and regard Akira Toriyama (creator of Dragon Ball) as a king of manga, along with Astro Boy's creator.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 01-27-2014, 11:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

I hate it when nearly every main character of anime series has to have a satanic dark powers , dark avatars , dark past , witchcrafting and evil **** as base etc .
not one gives positive vibe nowadays and looks completely rehash of every other anime story as well as characters .

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Old 01-27-2014, 12:11 PM   #35
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

Add my to the grumpy old men crowd who says "back in my day anime was better".

I got into anime because of stuff like Ninja Scroll, Akira, Genocyber, etc and since then I've drudged through seemingly countless anime that is just plain weak by comparison.

There's just so much anime out there it's hard to dig through it all to find any good stuff. It's just too overwhelming.

So there might be quality anime out there but there's just too much trash to dig through to find it. They need a suggestion device where you enter your favorite anime from the past and they give you a top ten list geared toward your taste.

So somebody build that please.

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Old 01-27-2014, 12:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

It depends on where you go, if you go with Seinen then you'll find stuff more up to your tastes. Either way i advise you to try Manga instead of Anime, some great stuff that is never animated, like Vagabond.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:47 PM   #37
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

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Add my to the grumpy old men crowd who says "back in my day anime was better".

I got into anime because of stuff like Ninja Scroll, Akira, Genocyber, etc and since then I've drudged through seemingly countless anime that is just plain weak by comparison.

There's just so much anime out there it's hard to dig through it all to find any good stuff. It's just too overwhelming.

So there might be quality anime out there but there's just too much trash to dig through to find it. They need a suggestion device where you enter your favorite anime from the past and they give you a top ten list geared toward your taste.

So somebody build that please.
I don't know, can't you literally say that about...everything?

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Old 01-27-2014, 05:22 PM   #38
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

There's a ton of great anime out there. Just check out the top lists from ANN, Anime List, or Kotaku even to guide you in the right direction.

Psycho Pass, Attack on Titan & Steins; Gate are just three that immediately come to mind.

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Old 01-27-2014, 06:28 PM   #39
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There's a ton of great anime out there. Just check out the top lists from ANN, Anime List, or Kotaku even to guide you in the right direction.

Psycho Pass, Attack on Titan & Steins; Gate are just three that immediately come to mind.
Well, don't include Kotaku... They're bad for everything.

I can understand most of it, but Psycho Pass? Really? I thought people had issues with that.

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Old 01-27-2014, 08:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

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Psycho Pass, Attack on Titan & Steins; Gate are just three that immediately come to mind.
Fullmetal Alchemist (both 2003 and 2011 series), Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, Death Note, Bacanno, Summer Wars, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time, Digimon Tamers, nearly every Studio Ghibli movie under the sun (especially the ones done by Hayao Miyazaki), Samurai Champloo, Monster, etc.

Those pretty much the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

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I can understand most of it, but Psycho Pass? Really? I thought people had issues with that.
As far as I know (I haven't finished it completely, so don't quote me on this), people probably had a few issues with it (I'm guessing one of those was the ending), but it was still a pretty decent series.

At least, it had nowhere near as many issues as anime like Sword Art Online, Guilty Crown and Future Diary.

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Old 01-27-2014, 08:23 PM   #41
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At least, it had nowhere near as many issues as anime like Sword Art Online, Guilty Crown and Future Diary.
Yeah, those things were garbage.

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Old 01-27-2014, 09:00 PM   #42
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

To give an "in a nutshell" answer to the thread's question, anime/manga - though anime in particular - is by far the medium with the least amount of limits.

First, there is the format and type of story you want to tell. The vast majority of Western animated shows are limited to the "season format" in which the number of episodes is usually decided before the full scripts are even finished. Even the most continuity/arc driven animated shows still do this to an extent. With anime, all of that is customisable. There are animes like Full Metal Panic and Darker than Black follow the traditional "season" Western format, and then there are also animes like the Shonen Jump titles (Dragon Ball, YuYu Hakusho, One Piece, etc.) that are continuously ongoing, with them being broken down into arcs/sagas instead. As long as an anime or manga sells well, things like the format, pacing, number of episodes/chapters, and style is entirely up to you as the writer.

Some people reading may be asking "Sure that applies to animation, but how does that differ from the live-action shows here in the West? Stuff like Breaking Bad have done practically the same thing". Yes, but the difference is just that...animation and live-action. I prefer Animation television to live-action television due to there being less restrictions in terms of budget. Everything you can do in live-action, you can do in animation. Everything you can do in animation, you can't do in live-action. In general, I also prefer television over live-action films due to essentially being films but with more continuity and ongoing story arcs. Which brings me to my next and (probably most important reason)...

Anime is essentially what I always wanted from American animation but never got (so far). There are no censorship issues (at least not major ones), can explore more mature themes, is very customisable in terms of the number of episodes and format in which the story will play out, and usually - though not always - they're less episodic with story arcs and continuity being put a very great deal amount of emphasis on. That's not to say American animation hasn't had its fair share of similar things, with products like Avatar and a lot of superhero shows. However, even those still had some of the limits that most American TV shows are slammed with. Batman TAS was very dark, but you still could never do Zsasz. Marvel shows like Spectacular Spider-Man and Avengers EMH still had continuity and story arcs, but they had to come up with the most fitting stories that would fit the 26-episode season format. It's little things like that that anime usually doesn't have a problem with.

I also like the fact manga usually boils down to only one writer, unlike Marvel/DC. It makes the overall story feel more consistent, especially when it comes to the big ongoing Shonen titles. That's not to say the Marvel/DC having so many writers is a bad thing, but it's nice to get just one writer once in a while.

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Old 01-27-2014, 10:12 PM   #43
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

^ Personally, I think all mediums have terrible formats somewhere in the depths of space.

When there's cartoons, there's ones that aren't funny, creative, or any of the sort.
When there's anime, there's ones that usually take advantage of the genre and uses weird things like being perverted and ****.

That could be the cynical side of me talking. But hey, that's what happens when I was 12 years old that has a diet that consists of bad Anime and Cartoon shows.

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Old 01-28-2014, 07:02 AM   #44
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

I enjoy anything with a good story anime/manga/movies my buddies got me hooked when I was about 15, went over and his brother had on Dragonball Z. At the time I was in the crowd of why are you watching cartoons are you still kids, not knowing the difference in Anime and regular US cartoons he looked at me and said man just give it a few episodes this is nothing like what your thinking of (take in the fact his brother was in college at the time and obsessed with anime).

I sat down watched enjoyed the story, got into the fights, and enjoyed the characters. Afterwards I went back watched the entire series and then I started going down searching for stuff to watch after that and since then have been a avid anime watcher/manga reader.

I think it boils down to your likes and dislikes when it comes to a shows though I don't hate anime at all outside of watching the big group (Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, HunterXHunter) I give generally every anime a chance. I am a sucker for a good storyline no matter the genre that has a good beginning, middle, and end. I hate anime if I start watching not knowing it was not picked up for a 2nd season and there is no end which happens a lot.

I just think given the medium they work in, compared to US Cartoons (which all less adult based stories if any stories at all and more based on kids 12 and under) and US live tv shows it a lot of these give the feel of a live tv show. With the way they have a story progress and the character development in some shows.

They have a lot more texture behind there characters, story, and then being it is a anime you can get away with more comedy, and action without breaking a budget like a live action show would give you because your not bound by those limitations of live actors and live settings with graphics.

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Old 01-28-2014, 07:26 AM   #45
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

It's all about searching for the type of anime you want, it's obvious that you won't get a serious story like that of Berzerk in shojo anime. There's even stuff like this for those that need some recomendations:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:01 AM   #46
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

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^ Personally, I think all mediums have terrible formats somewhere in the depths of space.

When there's cartoons, there's ones that aren't funny, creative, or any of the sort.
When there's anime, there's ones that usually take advantage of the genre and uses weird things like being perverted and ****.

That could be the cynical side of me talking. But hey, that's what happens when I was 12 years old that has a diet that consists of bad Anime and Cartoon shows.
True. That does happen.

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Old 01-29-2014, 08:03 AM   #47
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Default Re: Anime: Why you love/hate it so much?

I think some are just complaining without doing better searches, i mean, criticism like this:

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Love: A lot of older stuff.

Hate: A lot of newer stuff.

Anime then:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:








Anime now:

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:








I know it's a huge generalization, and there are probably tons of counter examples, but that's just how I feel.
Comparing a seinen with a Shojo? it simply makes no sence, it's like complaining that Disney Channel doesn't air Game of Thrones

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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