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Old 02-04-2014, 09:47 PM   #101
Senator Pleasury
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

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Originally Posted by AnneFan View Post
Hehehe yeah. He didn't seem to have any manoeuvre planned, just the jump. Maybe he intended to jump over him and attack from behind...but was instead caught and thrown into steps.
Yes. In fact, that's what happened.

Batman has many times attacked thugs from above in movies and comics, so I don't see the confusion here. When he jumped over Scarecrow's van (in TDK) I didn't know if he had something planned. How could I, through a monologue? I just saw it worked (assuming that it's true that if someone falls on a moving vehicle, it would make it come to a dead stop). In the case of the black Joker thug, he was stronger and faster than Batman thought - which made him a dangerous rival, after Batman seemed to control and outfight every other Joker thug. That doesn't mean he didn't plan anything before jumping.


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Old 02-16-2014, 06:55 PM   #102
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

The Killing Joke as a similar goon. Maybe it inspired the movie.

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Old 02-16-2014, 08:27 PM   #103
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

It's my favourite fight of the live-action movies, just down and dirty plus brutal. Batman getting whooped. Better than any other fight, including his fight with Bane in TDKR.

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Old 02-16-2014, 11:39 PM   #104
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

In the context and flow of the film its fine..
Outside of it its meh..the stiffness of the suit and small stature of Keaton is on full display..the way he takes the hit and the sound the punches generate really give the "batman is wearing hockey pads" vibe..

Again in the context of the film its great..the toss of batman into a roll, and back to standing sequence is ace.

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Old 02-16-2014, 11:49 PM   #105
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

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In the context and flow of the film its fine..
Outside of it its meh..the stiffness of the suit and small stature of Keaton is on full display..the way he takes the hit and the sound the punches generate really give the "batman is wearing hockey pads" vibe..

Again in the context of the film its great..the toss of batman into a roll, and back to standing sequence is ace.
I agree with the last part (except that I think every scene ever created should be measured within the context of its movie), and in fact it's why I don't believe the suit looked specially stiff. Batman could do plenty in this fight, such as what you describe. Also Keaton (if that was Keaton and not a stunt) only looked short because the thug was supposed to be much bigger, and thus a menace.

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Old 02-18-2014, 03:21 PM   #106
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Default Re: Batman vs the black Joker thug

I actually was only made aware of this thread's existence because of a squabble in the Rises forum. So, for once it served a purpose.

Yes, this is a great scene. Just a few things that people chimed in on earlier:

Burton's Batman is not so much cartoony, as he is a spectacle. For Burton, that spectacle is gothic and post-industrial, art deco hellacious fun, but that is pretty fun for anyone, really. Elfman's score reflects this as it drifts between two elements, one is a very heroic, operatic sound, and the other is not so much cartoony as a circus (though in Returns it actually has more tragic elements and intentionally skin-crawling oddness, though still in that big, endearingly over-the-top operatic way).

The Burton movie is like a circus. Things happen because emotionally they feel right and provide a great entertainment that compliment his vision. So, Batman can get his ass kicked by Ray Charles ( ) and then kill him without a second thought. It feels right and makes for a great sequence. Why was this goon up there waiting for Joker, if this seemed like a last minute change of plans after Batman stole his balloons? For the same reason why ninja-sword goon is standing behind a fence earlier in an area where he had no idea that Batman would be waiting to start a fight with the other thugs...because it is cool and fun.

Burton's movies deal with dark, brooding emotions, particularly Returns, but it is all very storybook logic that, at least in the first entry, is supposed to leave you on a high, like a three-ring circus reflected in the more boisterous parts of the score.

As for comparisons to Bane, I will say that this Batman is in a weakened state. He hasn't been Batman for years (albeit, I think that may mean 6-7 years, as there are hints throughout the movie that he did not hang up his cape over night). And Bane is established to be as well trained as Batman. There is more of a logic to it, which also makes it more plausible for fans to nitpick a fair critique: why didn't Batman have his instant KO sleeping agent with him from later in the movie? Such plausibility to why Batman would get defeated welcomes a more critical mind, but I still think it works.

Ray Charles? I love it.

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