Too much action?

[The Endless]

Don't get me wrong I enjoy the sequence as a whole, and the action overall. MoS has the best flying sequences of any comic book film. Closely followed by IM1 and IM3.

There is just certain things i think the film makers could have done differently in the final battle to show a bit more tension because up until the very final moment of the fight, there was no tension, just two indestructible guys punching the crap out of each other.

[ConnorKon-El]

Originally Posted by The Endless

Don't get me wrong I enjoy the sequence as a whole, and the action overall. MoS has the best flying sequences of any comic book film. Closely followed by IM1 and IM3.

There is just certain things i think the film makers could have done differently in the final battle to show a bit more tension because up until the very final moment of the fight, there was no tension, just two indestructible guys punching the crap out of each other.

Yep.

[blumatic]

Originally Posted by The Endless

Actually there was some tactics in the Avengers battle. They purposefully restricted the fighting to a few blocks around Stark Tower.

I thought the action in MoS was visually spectacular and was so happy to finally see some proper aerial "dogfighting" with two super powered beings.

But i thought all the crumbling sky scrapers was over kill and trying too hard to evoke 9/11. And i'd have liked to see Kal attempt to do more things like force Zod up into the atmosphere, instead of the other way around.

So they kept the damage for a few blocks. Good for them. A team of superheroes. There was no real plan until Selig awoke from his slumber.

In MOS the damage was done by Black Zero. Not Superman. I saw Ironman Thor and Hulk run those big worms through buildings.

[blumatic]

Originally Posted by Elevator Man

Actually before Stark pushes the missile through the wormhole and into the Chitauri "mothership", which destroyed Loki's army. Black Widow was about to close the portal by using Loki's scepter to shutdown the generator, which probably would've prevented anymore of Loki's army from getting through and ended the war. So Black Widow and Selvig already had a plan to stop the war before the third party interfered.

Another third party save. That wasn't the plan going in. Selvig woke up and mentioned the idea.

In MOS the plan worked but Zod did not go in the Zone. So they had to fight.

[blumatic]

Originally Posted by The Endless

Don't get me wrong I enjoy the sequence as a whole, and the action overall. MoS has the best flying sequences of any comic book film. Closely followed by IM1 and IM3.

There is just certain things i think the film makers could have done differently in the final battle to show a bit more tension because up until the very final moment of the fight, there was no tension, just two indestructible guys punching the crap out of each other.

Well it was fine for me. Zod was not taken by the hyper drive. And Zod lost his cool.

And I think the point of the scene was to show off as well.
I thought that was one of the best final one on one battle scenes I've ever seen. Bane vs Batman was waaaaay too short. Ironman vs Iron Mongur was underwhelming.

One on one fights are hard to pull of and MOS ran away with it.

[Senator Pleasury]

Originally Posted by blumatic

So they kept the damage for a few blocks. Good for them. A team of superheroes. There was no real plan until Selig awoke from his slumber.

In MOS the damage was done by Black Zero. Not Superman. I saw Ironman Thor and Hulk run those big worms through buildings.

Superman destroyed a spaceship right above the city and let it fall over it. I'm no even saying anything about how good/bad that is, but he did do quite some damage there.

[KRYPTON INC.]

The joys of two indestructable guys (whose character journey's I am invested in, natch) beating the snot out of each other, done in a highly textured style is what I've found to be one of the simple pleasures of super heroic fiction that has too often been absent from the modern CBM.

[blumatic]

Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury

Superman destroyed a spaceship right above the city and let it fall over it. I'm no even saying anything about how good/bad that is, but he did do quite some damage there.

I know. It's all peaches and cream in Avengers. In MOS, Superman is Satan.

Speaking of destruction, just seen the new Spiderman trailer with buildings collapsing in the middle of New York City.

But I'm sure that won't affect those who hated the 9/11 scene in MOS.

[The Endless]

The Avengers were shown actively saving people. Superman just crashes a ship through 4 sky scrapers. The film makers could and should have done that differently imo. I still enjoy the film, a lot, but i'm not gonna ignore it's flaws like some kind of obsessed fanboy like the guy from The Simpsons.

[blumatic]

Originally Posted by The Endless

The Avengers were shown actively saving people. Superman just crashes a ship through 4 sky scrapers. The film makers could and should have done that differently imo. I still enjoy the film, a lot, but i'm not gonna ignore it's flaws like some kind of obsessed fanboy like the guy from The Simpsons.

In Avengers, they didn't actively save anyone. All they did was acknowledge that there were citizens to be saved.

If there was an active save, it was by Captain America alone but he more caused a distraction to avoid more damage.

Superman did save soldiers in the Smallville battle.

[BH/HHH]

I was gonna respond but the Endless obviously only took notice of what he wanted to.

[The Endless]

Yes they did. There was dozens of people in a bank who were going to get executed. Cap saved them. Hawkeye was shown pulling people from a wrecked bus etc.

Supes caught one soldier falling from a chopper. But he also basically crashed a space ship into a populated city.

Again, I really enjoy MoS. But some of the stuff in the final battle was overkill because falling sky scrapers look shocking and evoke 9/11. Didn't matter that it was out of character for Superman to disable a spaceships controls over a city and not try to catch it or divert it. Then you have Zod being the one to take the fight into the upper atmosphere. Whyyyyy? Why not have Kal do that to restrict civilian casualties? Why would Zod take the fight into outer space and not Kal?

[manofsteel4life]

I saw them fighting and Kal threw Zod into space.........remember Zod crashing into the satilite?....Zod didn't take him there

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

Thor and Hulk sent one of those giant flying worms into a building without trying to catch it.

And these buildings were fresh, unlike the ones the scout ship crashed through, which were visibly barely hanging on, having been nearly destroyed by the world engine. Everyone was likely already dead and the building would have been demolished by a demolition crew payed for with taxpayer money.

[KRYPTON INC.]

I think that it's a testament to Superman's strength as an icon in the fan community that has people holding this film (and Cavill's portrayal) to such high standards as compared to other CBMs, their superheroes and even other depictions of Superman, despite the actual events seen in the film.

EDIT: I will just note that yes, it is Zod that, after knocking Supes through a bunch of building, none of which fall down (Zod lazering the building he first crashes Clark through is the only building that falls in their one on one) that spears both he and Supes into orbit where Clark then manages to flip Zod away where Zod then grazes a Wayne sattelite and then Zod crashed it into our hero. I am still not sure how this translates into out of character and wreckless action by Clark, but, sure, Zod is the opponent that knocks the fight into orbit.

[bluearth]

Originally Posted by The Endless

There is just certain things i think the film makers could have done differently in the final battle to show a bit more tension because up until the very final moment of the fight, there was no tension, just two indestructible guys punching the crap out of each other.

Its interesting to me that theres a group who says the collateral damage caused by Zod and Superman fighting was horrifying, but theres another group that says Zod and Superman fighting had no tension or consequences, and they felt bored. Im guessing this is where they wanted the movie to insert the president or love interest as tied up and dangling hundreds of feet off the ground to add the "damsel in distress" trope.

For me personally, the novelty of seeing a real comic book style flying fight with Superman was more then enough to keep me invested. We had something like this before with the Matrix Revolutions Neo and Smith fight, but that was still very much a Kung Fu wire fight. Superman's two brilliantly filmed punches on Zod is a comic book flying fight done right. After Zod got punched he stretched out and took off flying. At that point there was no doubt in my mind this Snyder guy was the right man for the job.

[sportjames23]

Originally Posted by blumatic

So they kept the damage for a few blocks. Good for them. A team of superheroes. There was no real plan until Selig awoke from his slumber.

In MOS the damage was done by Black Zero. Not Superman. I saw Ironman Thor and Hulk run those big worms through buildings.

That's what gets me about all the flack Man of Steel gets for the Metropolis battle--Zod's Black Zero did all that destruction.

I see some fans complain that "Superman destroyed all those buildings in Metropolis.." and I'm like "What movie did they see?"

Yet, in Avengers, I see Iron Man, Thor and Hulk causing mass destruction and casually shooting Chitauri out of the sky, not caring where they land, and crashing those big worms through buildings and Grand Central Station, and fans cheer that.

Superman got tossed by Zod through a building and fans complain. Hulk ran through an office with workers barely able to get out of his way and fans cheer.

WTF? Is it because the Avengers were cracking jokes while fighting the Chitauri that makes it OK? Some complain that Man of Steel reminded them of 9/11, but Avengers didn't?

[KRYPTON INC.]

I totally love Avengers, but I just don't understand myself how the collateral damage done in that film is so underplayed but Superman and Zod's one on one is continually mischaracterized. It's baffling.

[The Endless]

No ones saying Superman destroyed all those buildings. People have complained that the film makers could have shown Superman actively trying to save people whilst holding off Zod. Or doing things that aren't out of character, like disabling a spaceship right above a populated city and not even trying to catch/divert it. And again, why is Zod taking the fight to space? The writers could have done it so Kal is trying to take Zod into the upper atmosphere away from civilians.

See in Avengers Hulk was running through an office block sure. But why? Because one of those big space dragon things was about to plough straight through the building. Hulk diverted it away. We also get a scene where Cap tells the police to keep people off the streets, taking them into basements or the subway. He also gives out orders to the other Avengers telling them to keep the fighting restricted to a couple of blocks around Stark Tower. The film is actively showing the Avengers trying to restrict civilian casualties. MoS does no such thing. It's more preoccupied with showing us skyscrapers collapsing.

Avengers didn't focus on sky scrapers crumbling. There was a sky scraper coming down in the back ground but the film makers wisely chose to have it in the background. MoS made a big deal of it. It was purposefully trying to be super serious and evoke 9/11. This isn't the way to go for a Superman movie in my opinion.

With all that said Avengers isn't free of flaws either. And like i said before, MoS still has the best flying scenes of any superhero movie and it finally gave me a proper aerial dogfight between two super powered beings.

[sportjames23]

Originally Posted by The Endless

The Avengers were shown actively saving people. Superman just crashes a ship through 4 sky scrapers. The film makers could and should have done that differently imo. I still enjoy the film, a lot, but i'm not gonna ignore it's flaws like some kind of obsessed fanboy like the guy from The Simpsons.

Superman was shown saving the whole damn world. Or does stopping the World Engine not count?

Or the fact that Superman was one guy, with some help from the military (unlike the military in Avengers) vs a powerful invasion, as opposed to the Avengers, a team of six heroes who could split up their forces to fight off the aliens and save some folks at the same time, not mean anything? I guess you're thinking that if Superman stopped to save civilians, Zod, who said earlier that he was gonna kill every last man, woman and child on Earth, would just stop what he's doing and allow Superman to resue people?

This is the kinda crap Man of Steel had to deal with from fanboys that Avengers gets a pass on.

[The Endless]

Originally Posted by sportjames23

Superman was shown saving the whole damn world. Or does stopping the World Engine not count?

Or the fact that Superman was one guy, with some help from the military (unlike the military in Avengers) vs a powerful invasion, as opposed to the Avengers, a team of six heroes who could split up their forces to fight off the aliens and save some folks at the same time, not mean anything? I guess you're thinking that if Superman stopped to save civilians, Zod, who said earlier that he was gonna kill every last man, woman and child on Earth, would just stop what he's doing and allow Superman to resue people?

This is the kinda crap Man of Steel had to deal with from fanboys that Avengers gets a pass on.

Zod didn't seem to give a crap about harming civilians until right at the end of the fight. There was a point where he escaped Kal and could have gone round at superspeed killing loads of people. But he didn't. He only had eyes for Kal.

Point is, it's a fictional fight. The writers could have shown Superman catch the falling space ship, or divert it to the sea. The writers could have shown Superman throwing Zod up into the atmosphere, instead of the opposite. Or catching the LexCorp petrol tanker instead of just jumping out of the way and letting it explode and destroy the building behind him. It's these little details that make the difference.

[sportjames23]

Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC.

I totally love Avengers, but I just don't understand myself how the collateral damage done in that film is so underplayed but Superman and Zod's one on one is continually mischaracterized. It's baffling.

Exactly. Is is just bias against Superman/DC/WB?

I mean, even Batman in TDKT caused massive destruction (on a smaller scale, but still a lot of damage) and killed (Dent, Ra's, Talia) and I've never seen much complaints about that.

[sportjames23]

Originally Posted by The Endless

Zod didn't seem to give a crap about harming civilians until right at the end of the fight. There was a point where he escaped Kal and could have gone round at superspeed killing loads of people. But he didn't. He only had eyes for Kal.

Point is, it's a fictional fight. The writers could have shown Superman catch the falling space ship, or divert it to the sea. The writers could have shown Superman throwing Zod up into the atmosphere, instead of the opposite. It's these little details that make the difference.

Yeah, and the writers could have shown the Avengers stopping the Chitauri without causing all the damage they did to NYC, too. You gonna complain about that?

[The Endless]

There is no bias. This is a thread talking about MoS action scenes, so that's why i'm sharing my opinion on them. Doesn't mean i dislike the film... at all. But all films have flaws, just because i really like a film doesn't mean i'm going to blind myself to it's flaws. And neither should anyone else.

[The Endless]

Originally Posted by sportjames23

Yeah, and the writers could have shown the Avengers stopping the Chitauri without causing all the damage they did to NYC, too. You gonna complain about that?

That is the point though... the writers did show the Avengers ACTIVELY minimising the damage caused to NYC. They actually had a plan, to keep the fighting restricted to a few blocks. Captain America liaised with the NYPD telling them to keep people off the streets and take them into the subways etc.

These little details go a long way. Obviously there was damage to NYC. But the film makers showed the Avengers actively trying to minimise the damage. And it also had a montage at the end showing the different reactions to the Avengers and the battle, both negative and positive. MoS just cuts from Supes snapping Zod's neck to presumably a few months later where it's a comical scene with a spy drone and the General.