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Old 02-28-2014, 10:19 PM   #926
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Ten years ago a shared universe being slowly unveiled via big budget feature length films in episodic format was "impossible".

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Old 02-28-2014, 11:46 PM   #927
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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Wow, that is a really low threshhold for what's "absolutely impossible"! I was thinking people winning national lotteries with one ticket or exploding suns consuming solar systems, but eh those actually happen. Here's some help..if a deal is better for one guy and worse for the other, move it 1 billionth of an iota of a fraction towards the guy losing out. Continue to do so till you get close to level. (and then stop )
You're assuming A) that they are trying to be fair to each other B) that they can't both lose out and C) That balancing act didn't already happen, and nudging it either direction from here wouldn't make it worse for someone. Those are all untrue.

Right now, Avengers movies already have virtually all the audience from Spider-Man movies and more. Adding Spider-Man wouldn't do them much good there. If Avengers promotes and MCU character, Marvel gets 100% of the returns of that solo movie, and doesn't have to share any profits from Avengers. If Avengers promotes Spidey, Sony may want to share some profit (or creative control!), and there's no telling if Spidey even brings any additional audience since Avengers has a much larger following from the same exact demographics. So nudging it any more in Sony's direction is a bad idea for Marvel.

Likewise, Sony isn't going to want to let Marvel use Spider-Man for free. If they contribute one of their liscenced characters to something, they're going to want some profit sharing, giving Spidey back for free doesn't work in their interest.

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Ten years ago a shared universe being slowly unveiled via big budget feature length films in episodic format was "impossible".
Yes, and then Jason vs Freddy, Alien vs Predator, Dracula vs Frankenstein set them right.

But if your counter argument to: "this is a bad business deal" is "anything's possible" then we're not really having the same conversation.

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Old 03-01-2014, 12:04 AM   #928
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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Yes, and then Jason vs Freddy, Alien vs Predator, Dracula vs Frankenstein set them right.
Aww, that's adorable. But I really think you know what I meant.

Or maybe I should have written AVENGERS in giant bold letters just in case someone came along with contrariness on their mind.

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Old 03-01-2014, 01:28 AM   #929
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

I don't care if Spidey never joins The Avengers or interacts with any characters of the MCU, I just want some acknowledgement that Spidey's world and shanenigans are happening in New York City in the MCU.

Maybe a little reference to some nut in a unitard swinging around New York dealing with crap a crooked corporation is letting loose.

A Marvel Universe with no Spidey is like a DC universe with no Batman.

Anyway, it's sad that in a time where Marvel has the MCU up and running, Spidey is still in a universe where he is the only Marvel superhero, as far as we know.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:10 AM   #930
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

I may be the only person here who really does not care that Spider-Man isn't part of the MCU. He has his own universe and that's just fine as far as I am concerned. In the comic books Spidey was once a lone wolf who only interacted with teams like the Avengers and the Fantastic Four in very specific circumstances. That suits his nature. Being a member of a team seems strange for him, like it's something Marvel did for sales and not because it makes any sense for the character.


In the film universes I can accept Spider-Man's absence from Marvel's New York, as well as the Avengers' absence from his. It's not a big thing to me.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:14 AM   #931
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

You're right. Peter Parker at his core has always been somewhat socially inept and tries to make up for it with his Spider-Man persona. Deep down he's far more of a lone wolf.

The 1990's animated series made that pretty clear.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:44 AM   #932
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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You're right. Peter Parker at his core has always been somewhat socially inept and tries to make up for it with his Spider-Man persona. Deep down he's far more of a lone wolf.

The 1990's animated series made that pretty clear.
Although Marvel has changed things recently for some reason, Peter had long acknowledged that he just did not belong in a team setting. He tried several times to find a place with the Fantastic Four, the Avengers and even the X-Men back in the day, but always ended up going back on his own. That was a major part of Stan Lee's conception of Peter Parker's place in the Marvel Comics universe: He was a loner by preference, because he needed to stay anonymous and because he just wasn't a joiner. Most teen nerds share Peter's social awkwardness so that made him very easy to relate to.

It's notable that when he first started out Peter was so cash-strapped that he tried to join the FF hoping to be paid, and once felt that the stipend Tony Stark gave the Avengers (through the Maria Stark Foundation) might be a good way to earn extra money. That didn't make him a mercenary, just a teenager with the burden of supporting an elderly aunt and very few realistic options. I loved the fact that Peter wasn't a billionaire industrialist or a well-connected scientist who could raise millions by selling patents (which Reed Richards once did). He was just barely scraping by like a lot of normal people and the fact that he was out there on his own added to the drama of his adventures.

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:57 AM   #933
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Agree he was and still is Marvel`s Superman!

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Old 03-01-2014, 07:40 AM   #934
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As long as they aren't from DC every character should join up with the MCU for Avengers 3. You guys are the worst fighting between your Marvel brothers. They all came from Stan, Jack, & Steve I know Stan wants to see them all together on screen. He created them that way so he didnt have to make up stupid cities like Metroplis, Bludhaven, Gotham etc etc. They're all in NY for a reason. The scene from Civil War would be great on screen when Spidey's beating up some guys and Reed Richards like "Amazing!" and then Spidey hits him next and says "Spectacular!"

Honestly I feel MCU fanboys are scared off by how good Marvel could do Spidey, X, & FF. Unforuently Fox/Sony have the best heroes and villians. Galactus/Magneto/Norman/Doom/Super Skrull/Venom/Dark Phoenix/Silver Surfer/Doc Ock/Sentinels **** on all MCU villians not named Loki/Memphesto/Thanos. MCU Versions of Spider-Man > X-Men > Avengers > Fanstatic Four > Defenders. Its a crying shame Reed Richards isnt hanging out with Hank McCoy/Hank Pym/Bruce Banner up at Stark Tower or the Baxter Building. We're arguing with each other when we should be forcing thes3 executives to put the real Marvel U together.


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Old 03-01-2014, 07:59 AM   #935
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

I think Spider-Man will eventually make his way into the MCU. However, not until after Phase 3 and the ASM series has reached it's planned destination of a Sinister Six film. BOTH, coming in 2018. After that, both will be heading towards a soft reboot/retcons of sorts in their franchises, and will be open to introductions and changes.

It'd be the perfect time for his introduction.

But for now, it's just not the right time. Both are in the full swing with their franchises, and their respective stories, and it'd be more trouble than it's currently worth to try and squeeze Spidey in when he really has nothing to offer the MCU (and vice versa) at the moment.

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Old 03-01-2014, 08:09 AM   #936
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Even if it became possible, much later on down the line, to have spider-man appear in a MCU film, they would have undoubtedly made more Spider-Man films until then and without any clear cut confirmation for the Crew and writers on knowing if their product is tied to the MCU mythology or not, there could be several things that take place within Spider-Man's films that could contradict a lot of things within the MCU.

I mean it'd be like trying to force the X-Men series to exist within the MCU right now, which would be a continuity nightmare considering the huge mythology established by both franchises and how it wouldn't mesh well together because of that alone.

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Old 03-01-2014, 10:31 AM   #937
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

I'm more interested in Spider-Man being in this universe as a whole, than I am about him being in the actual Avengers. I feel like Daredevil (now coming to the MCU) and Spider-Man would make a wonderful team-up and they can fight Kingpin and other mob/gangsters. The occasion cameo in an Avengers film would be good, but I don't need him to be a member of the team. The team of Capt, Hulk, IM, and Thor have a lot of movies in them before they have to switch it up. I'd love for Sony and Marvel Studios to come to a deal, I mean, it almost happened right? Oscorp was going to be in TA, or was the debunked?

So yeah, Spidey being in the universe instead of being specifically on the team is what I would want.

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Old 03-01-2014, 10:43 AM   #938
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Right now, I want everything to stay where it is. 6-8 years from now when all these franchises are over, I want Disney, Sony, and Fox to play nice and reboot together and make a 5 hour movie with all the heroes against Galactus.

On topic now, I can't wait to see ATJ and Liz Olsen () as Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch(can't look worse than DOFP versions)

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Old 03-01-2014, 11:20 AM   #939
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

^ Galactus, Annihalus or something like that yeah lol would be aweseome.

I cant wait either. It will be funny to see all memes about Quicksilver MCU vs Quicksilver Fox. Im willing to bet Marvel goes with the green suit (even if that one directly connects to X-men?) Olsen/Sw, well I did read somewhere they were going with a much more discret version so I keep my expectations low.

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Old 03-01-2014, 11:36 AM   #940
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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Originally Posted by DrCosmic View Post
Yes, and then Jason vs Freddy, Alien vs Predator, Dracula vs Frankenstein set them right.

But if your counter argument to: "this is a bad business deal" is "anything's possible" then we're not really having the same conversation.
Those other crossovers are not really the same situation at all. As to Spidey in the Avengers, you are assuming that it has to be a win/lose situation and that there is no way that it can be a win/win situation on some level. We don't know what is in the art of the possible. I for one would love to see it happen, if only to acknowledge that the events of TASM are happening within the MCU.

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Old 03-01-2014, 12:31 PM   #941
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Spidey never was an Avenger and has not much to offer to the MCU at that point with that particular narrative.

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Old 03-01-2014, 02:02 PM   #942
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

While we're at it can we get Phil Connors and Punxsutawney Phil into the MCU?

This Spidey thing is the most dead horse I've ever seen beaten. I don't know why I have to keep coming to speculation/news threads to find guys debating this tired topic. Take it to the Spidey thread here in the A:AOU section:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=465005

Why the hell would Marvel share profit with another studio for the rights of another movie character who wouldn't increase the bottom line? Spidey fans by and large are already Avengers fans. This would not be merging two franchises with two different demo's whereby creating increased returns so it makes literally zero business sense. Some of you guys know that this IS a business right? Not to mention the writing/continuity situation would be a complete nightmare (unless they reboot the Spidey franchise again).



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Old 03-01-2014, 02:33 PM   #943
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Well those are rock solid arguments.

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Old 03-01-2014, 03:10 PM   #944
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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While we're at it can we get Phil Connors and Punxsutawney Phil into the MCU?

This Spidey thing is the most dead horse I've ever seen beaten. I don't know why I have to keep coming to speculation/news threads to find guys debating this tired topic. Take it to the Spidey thread here in the A:AOU section:

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=465005

Why the hell would Marvel share profit with another studio for the rights of another movie character who wouldn't increase the bottom line? Spidey fans by and large are already Avengers fans. This would not be merging two franchises with two different demo's whereby creating increased returns so it makes literally zero business sense. Some of you guys know that this IS a business right? Not to mention the writing/continuity situation would be a complete nightmare (unless they reboot the Spidey franchise again).

Post Re-directing 101: Follow your own advice and post your argument in the thread you're directing to, otherwise people will have to respond in the current thread and keep the dead horse alive longer.

Business deals aren't based only on profit sharing. A fixed fee for a one off cameo usage benefits both studios at the right price. Cheap marketing for Sony in the biggest film of the moment without having to do any work. And the same kind of benefit adding anything cool to Avengers that costs a bit extra has, like a secondary outfit for Scarlet Witch or pink flashing goggles for Quicksilver. It's just something cool for a bit of extra money that benefits Marvel, Sony and most of the non SHH posting GA. You know they would love it.

I don't want any non comic regular Avenger over the decades like Spidey or Wolverine actually joining the team though or having much beyond a cameo until we've seen everyone who deserves to be ahead of them. Maybe something for Avengers 17.

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Old 03-01-2014, 03:35 PM   #945
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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Aww, that's adorable. But I really think you know what I meant.

Or maybe I should have written AVENGERS in giant bold letters just in case someone came along with contrariness on their mind.
you're a testy fellow aintcha?

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Old 03-01-2014, 03:36 PM   #946
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

The only reason their is even a debate about Spidey in the MCU is because Avengers 2 is devoid of news.

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Old 03-01-2014, 03:48 PM   #947
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

What we need is a sequence where Hulk becomes "Not-a-hero-Banner-is" and Spidey comes in to save the day, and then Wolverine takes over leadership of the team from Cap having tol him to 'go **** yourself'.

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The only reason their is even a debate about Spidey in the MCU is because Avengers 2 is devoid of news.
Yeah, we have a lot of news to look forward to at least, 3 new hero characters & a new villain (unlike Avengers where we'd seen all the heroes before to at least some extent and Loki as lead villain). Gonna be crazy when that stuff starts dropping.

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Old 03-01-2014, 04:36 PM   #948
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

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Yeah, we have a lot of news to look forward to at least, 3 new hero characters & a new villain (unlike Avengers where we'd seen all the heroes before to at least some extent and Loki as lead villain). Gonna be crazy when that stuff starts dropping.
They need to confirm Strucker and Vision and either officially confirm or deny that Cheadle and/or Mackie are in this film, because we don't know if any of those rumors are true (what Mackie could be saying about Avengers 2 could easily be a smokescreen).

The only newcomers officially confirmed by Marvel are Aaron Taylor Johnson and Elizabeth Olsen and James Spader.

The only confirmation we've had from Marvel about this film is the locations this movie will shoot. This gif describes my hesitation over the lack of news:


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Old 03-01-2014, 04:55 PM   #949
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
Post Re-directing 101: Follow your own advice and post your argument in the thread you're directing to, otherwise people will have to respond in the current thread and keep the dead horse alive longer.

Business deals aren't based only on profit sharing. A fixed fee for a one off cameo usage benefits both studios at the right price. Cheap marketing for Sony in the biggest film of the moment without having to do any work. And the same kind of benefit adding anything cool to Avengers that costs a bit extra has, like a secondary outfit for Scarlet Witch or pink flashing goggles for Quicksilver. It's just something cool for a bit of extra money that benefits Marvel, Sony and most of the non SHH posting GA. You know they would love it.

I don't want any non comic regular Avenger over the decades like Spidey or Wolverine actually joining the team though or having much beyond a cameo until we've seen everyone who deserves to be ahead of them. Maybe something for Avengers 17.
Once again: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=465005

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Old 03-01-2014, 05:07 PM   #950
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5

I don't think anyone wants Spider-Man as an Avengers member. I always preferred him by himself as well. I think most people are just asking him to be there, not necessarily join the team. The universe feels really empty and awkward without a Spider-Man being there swinging through it. A small easter egg or something establishing his presence would be enough.

But if it never happens, I'm not losing sleep over it.

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