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View Poll Results: Which villain
Mr. Freeze 39 16.32%
Joker 5 2.09%
Riddler 69 28.87%
Penguin 10 4.18%
Clayface 16 6.69%
Mad Hatter 4 1.67%
Hugo Strange 34 14.23%
Poison Ivy 8 3.35%
Two Face 6 2.51%
Killer Croc 15 6.28%
The League Of Assasins 1 0.42%
The Court Of Owls 19 7.95%
Dollmaker 0 0%
Catwoman 1 0.42%
Other 12 5.02%
Voters: 239. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-02-2014, 01:58 PM   #626
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Although I like Mr. Freeze, I think he is a bit overrated. I don't think he can carry a whole film as the main villain, or at least not with the origin Bruce Timm and Paul Dini gave him.

What's wrong with the origin, you might ask? Nothing. It's a fantastic one, but it only lets you use the character like two or maybe three times. His wife does not justify everything he does. He's too evil. You can't consistently go the sympathy angle with Freeze in the same way you can with Two-Face. An in a way, the DCAU proves this to be true. Most of the episodes with Freeze after Heart of Ice were to varying extents just retreads of Heart of Ice. Then when they finally fixed his wife in SubZero, he no longer served any purpose. They kept giving him a different motivation each time he showed up.

You also have to explain why Bruce just doesn't give the guy funding on Nora. Seriously. If he's doing all of that just for funding money, why not give him the money? I understand Bruce not doing it after it, but after like a million encounters with Freeze? I don't buy it.

If they do use Freeze, they should base him on Scott Snyder's take from the Batman Annual #1. It is probably my favorite thing done with Freeze in the comics. It's the same premise, but with an interesting spin. Nora isn't really his wife and he is really just a psychopath who uses his "wife" as an excuse/justification for all the horrible things he is committing. For a 2-3 hour film with Freeze as the main villain, that's the direction they should go IMO. They can still go the sympathetic Heart of Ice route initially but at some point in the climax/third act, they should reveal he really is just evil.

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Old 03-02-2014, 03:43 PM   #627
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I was dissapointed Riddler didn't make it into Nolan's trilogy, so I'd like to see him be one of the villains for Batfleck.

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Old 03-02-2014, 03:54 PM   #628
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Totally we never seen serious The Riddler can be like. I think best version came from the BTAS.

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Old 03-03-2014, 06:30 AM   #629
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Dude you're onto something here. That could be a great villain pairing...

Hugo Strange is known to have created his own "Monster Men", it wouldn't be much of a stretch if he was the scientist behind Clayface's creation.

Maybe Hugo Strange knows Bruce Wayne is Batman, and has Clayface impersonate Bruce Wayne.. maybe this could be a streamlined adaptation of "Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" storyline from the 2000s. Not an adaptation per se, but they could take elements from that storyline.

Hugo Strange shouldn't trust information like Batman's identity to Hagen/Clayface, Hagen could just be used to frame Bruce Wayne for murder

I'm really liking this idea. I struggled to think of a villain for Clayface to work well with, and i think Hugo Strange is perfect for this.

The BTAS Clayface origin works well within the context of an animated series, but for film, Hugo Strange could create him.

Christoph Waltz for Hugo Strange
a lot of people could work for Clayface/Matt Hagen.
I approve of all that

I think another addition could be The Riddler.
Strange, Riddler and Clayface hatch a plot to destroy Batman as a great mind.
They would all together challenge Batman's mental strength and intellect to the very limits and Clayface would physically challenge him as well, which would appease fans in that way.

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Old 03-03-2014, 01:02 PM   #630
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Yeah Riddler could be thrown into the mix as well. Maybe Riddler and Hugo Strange are both working together to deduce Batman's identity.

And if you're going to have a cerebral villain like Riddler or Strange, you definitely need to have a physical villain as well. Killer Croc or Clayface would be my top choices for physical threats that wouldn;t be the main threat.

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Old 03-03-2014, 05:37 PM   #631
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wtf ? i don't remember voting for riddler on this poll. nah. joker's definitely my favorite .

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Old 03-03-2014, 08:57 PM   #632
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Although I like Mr. Freeze, I think he is a bit overrated. I don't think he can carry a whole film as the main villain, or at least not with the origin Bruce Timm and Paul Dini gave him.

What's wrong with the origin, you might ask? Nothing. It's a fantastic one, but it only lets you use the character like two or maybe three times. His wife does not justify everything he does. He's too evil. You can't consistently go the sympathy angle with Freeze in the same way you can with Two-Face. An in a way, the DCAU proves this to be true. Most of the episodes with Freeze after Heart of Ice were to varying extents just retreads of Heart of Ice. Then when they finally fixed his wife in SubZero, he no longer served any purpose. They kept giving him a different motivation each time he showed up.

You also have to explain why Bruce just doesn't give the guy funding on Nora. Seriously. If he's doing all of that just for funding money, why not give him the money? I understand Bruce not doing it after it, but after like a million encounters with Freeze? I don't buy it.

If they do use Freeze, they should base him on Scott Snyder's take from the Batman Annual #1. It is probably my favorite thing done with Freeze in the comics. It's the same premise, but with an interesting spin. Nora isn't really his wife and he is really just a psychopath who uses his "wife" as an excuse/justification for all the horrible things he is committing. For a 2-3 hour film with Freeze as the main villain, that's the direction they should go IMO. They can still go the sympathetic Heart of Ice route initially but at some point in the climax/third act, they should reveal he really is just evil.
I truly like this idea. Freeze could play on Batman's sympathy just to decieve him. It could make for a great moment if done well.

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Old 03-03-2014, 09:45 PM   #633
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I don't like that at all. While it does hark back to the early version and does include TAS route, I don't like it.

Freeze is a link in the chain of villainy that clearly shows that some of the people Batman fight are just messed up, and some are rather to be more pitied than hated. More of a sympathetic view to mental illness, that I think the comics lack now with that new origin route for Freeze.
What I love about TAS was that it made Freeze so different and unique from other villains and it's still incredibly fresh today.
I can buy that his circumstances have driven him completely over the edge and the good man he once was is completely gone...but I just don't prefer that route.

And I seriously detest that new origin. Displaying him nothing more as a psychopath, who uses TAS explanation as nothing more as a deluded excuse. That's just crap. He's lost the very thing that made truly popular among the masses. He's lost that emotional weight that brought him back from the dead in the comics.

What I do agree with is the fact that Bruce should just fund money to stop Freeze committing crimes. But you could reason that Freeze holding Nora is completely unethical and immoral, which some might disagree or agree with. Bruce is a man that wishes to preserve all life, . But it's easy to believe preserving Nora is just cruel, and there is no proper hope for her. Freeze is just being selfish by not allowing her to pass on.
And to avoid the years issue, Freeze's appearance should be an origin one.

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Old 03-03-2014, 10:01 PM   #634
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I don't like that at all. While it does hark back to the early version and does include TAS route, I don't like it.

Freeze is a link in the chain of villainy that clearly shows that some of the people Batman fight are just messed up, and some are rather to be more pitied than hated. More of a sympathetic view to mental illness, that I think the comics lack now with that new origin route for Freeze.
What I love about TAS was that it made Freeze so different and unique from other villains and it's still incredibly fresh today.
I can buy that his circumstances have driven him completely over the edge and the good man he once was is completely gone...but I just don't prefer that route.

And I seriously detest that new origin. Displaying him nothing more as a psychopath, who uses TAS explanation as nothing more as a deluded excuse. That's just crap. He's lost the very thing that made truly popular among the masses. He's lost that emotional weight that brought him back from the dead in the comics.

What I do agree with is the fact that Bruce should just fund money to stop Freeze committing crimes. But you could reason that Freeze holding Nora is completely unethical and immoral, which some might disagree or agree with. Bruce is a man that wishes to preserve all life, . But it's easy to believe preserving Nora is just cruel, and there is no proper hope for her. Freeze is just being selfish by not allowing her to pass on.
And to avoid the years issue, Freeze's appearance should be an origin one.
well said. Completely agreed.

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Old 03-04-2014, 04:23 AM   #635
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Rodrigo90, I see your point, and I do agree in part. I haven't read the issue story in question-perhaps I should to get a better understanding of it.

However, what if a twist was applied to the idea (yes, I'm twisting a twist on an idea that works well as an origin tale). One criticism of the origin from TAS is that it makes it difficult to write recurring stories, and you mention how it should be done as an origin in your post. This twist could be that Freeze originally takes up his crusade to save his wife, which may or may not be possible within the story. However, Freeze could find himself addicted to the rush of crime, the thrill of it. It would take a talented actor and good writing/direction, but if done well, I believe it could work.

To add more drama to it, in this new twist of the story Freeze may actually cure/save his wife, only to her (and his) horror he finds himself unable to give up the thrill of the crime. Boom, keeps the tragic elements of TAS version, while setting him up as a recurring villian in the future.

What are your thoughts on that? I did just kind of ramble that on, so there wasn't much forethought put into the idea.

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Old 03-04-2014, 01:21 PM   #636
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Pretty much this.

http://kane52630.tumblr.com/post/782...nimated-series





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Old 03-04-2014, 01:53 PM   #637
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Rodrigo90, I see your point, and I do agree in part. I haven't read the issue story in question-perhaps I should to get a better understanding of it.

However, what if a twist was applied to the idea (yes, I'm twisting a twist on an idea that works well as an origin tale). One criticism of the origin from TAS is that it makes it difficult to write recurring stories, and you mention how it should be done as an origin in your post. This twist could be that Freeze originally takes up his crusade to save his wife, which may or may not be possible within the story. However, Freeze could find himself addicted to the rush of crime, the thrill of it. It would take a talented actor and good writing/direction, but if done well, I believe it could work.

To add more drama to it, in this new twist of the story Freeze may actually cure/save his wife, only to her (and his) horror he finds himself unable to give up the thrill of the crime. Boom, keeps the tragic elements of TAS version, while setting him up as a recurring villian in the future.

What are your thoughts on that? I did just kind of ramble that on, so there wasn't much forethought put into the idea.
I believe it is possible for his mind to warp further than it already has.
I can't imagine what his tragic circumstances would do to anyone.
To be a doctor for many years, saving lives and then cruelly, having your dearest loved one be taken from you.

Freeze's motivation for crime is to save his wife. But what's his motivation for ruthlessly killing people in the manner he does? Not just freezing them, but at times smashing them into tiny pieces...
I'll never buy into him committing crimes just for a thrill. It's not part of his character. But I could see him turning into a serial killer. Robbing people of their warmth and lives, because he and Nora are suffering too. He's just filled with a burning hatred and jealousy of others.

I can see that happening to him and I imagine he has been pushed over the edge towards that path a few times. It's not a stretch to believe he could be like.
He's lost all his empathy that he possessed as a doctor.

But Freeze is a tragic character. His motivation is love, really.

If they wanted, they could just tell a story of him after Nora finally recovered and she found love with somebody else. Freeze then dedicates his remaining days at making people suffer like he is.

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Old 03-04-2014, 03:18 PM   #638
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I believe it is possible for his mind to warp further than it already has.
I can't imagine what his tragic circumstances would do to anyone.
To be a doctor for many years, saving lives and then cruelly, having your dearest loved one be taken from you.

Freeze's motivation for crime is to save his wife. But what's his motivation for ruthlessly killing people in the manner he does? Not just freezing them, but at times smashing them into tiny pieces...
I'll never buy into him committing crimes just for a thrill. It's not part of his character. But I could see him turning into a serial killer. Robbing people of their warmth and lives, because he and Nora are suffering too. He's just filled with a burning hatred and jealousy of others.

I can see that happening to him and I imagine he has been pushed over the edge towards that path a few times. It's not a stretch to believe he could be like.
He's lost all his empathy that he possessed as a doctor.

But Freeze is a tragic character. His motivation is love, really.

If they wanted, they could just tell a story of him after Nora finally recovered and she found love with somebody else. Freeze then dedicates his remaining days at making people suffer like he is.
This. I hate the new 52 version of the character. I hate it.

And Freeze doesn't need to be a recurring villain. One origin film where his motivation is his love for his wife is plenty.

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Old 03-05-2014, 06:09 AM   #639
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If they use Freeze as a villain (idea I don't like) please one movie where he dies tragically at the end.

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Old 03-05-2014, 08:56 AM   #640
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I've always thought that would be fitting ending for him for a movie.
Dies being a hero.

Not sure on Nora's fate. She could either perish with him. Or at the end she shows signs of life thanks to Bruce continuing to support her after her husbands death. That would be really nice.

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:21 AM   #641
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All good ideas on Freeze. I dont think theyll use him before Cobblepot or Nygma though.

Characters like Black Mask and Killer Croc should never be main villains. Keep them as side characters or dont use them at all.

They would have to radically change Clayface for the big screen if they want to use him. And he would most likely be used as somebody's pawn (Hugo Strange).

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:28 AM   #642
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I'm a fan of Clayface being treat like the T-1000

Just something subtle and unsettling til near the end for the final battle.

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1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:27 AM   #643
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I'd like to see the Riddler used next or possibly someone that's never been done before on a live action Batman film like Clayface.

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Old 03-07-2014, 07:23 PM   #644
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I know I go on about Charlize for Catwoman...but after seeing Margot Robbie with her dark hair

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2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
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Old 03-08-2014, 10:23 AM   #645
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daaaaaaaamn... yeah i'd be fine with her as Catwoman.

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Old 03-08-2014, 04:24 PM   #646
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personally I see Margot Robbie more as harley.

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Old 03-08-2014, 04:31 PM   #647
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I want Hush in the next one, and for them to draw on some of the origin elements of Black Mask for it.

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Old 03-08-2014, 04:38 PM   #648
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personally I see Margot Robbie more as harley.
She's versatile. So either role really.

But she doesn't like being blonde apparently

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1. Superman having no trunks
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3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
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Old 03-08-2014, 04:48 PM   #649
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I like her as a blonde, maybe I first her as a blonde.

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Old 03-08-2014, 05:07 PM   #650
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She does suit blonde hair.
But she doesn't prefer it

I think she'd be great as either Harley or Selina. Or even Ivy for that matter.

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Things I have been right about before they were confirmed -
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
1. Superman having no trunks
2. Bruce Wayne retiring and Batman being made a martyr
3. Bryan Cranston NOT being Lex Luthor
4. Joker being the big bad in Batman: Arkham Origins
5. Green Goblin not wearing a mask and being mutated
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