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Old 03-15-2014, 05:14 AM   #551
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i loved both ironman3 and thor 2 and thought there were both significant improvements over the preceding solo movies.. the action was better, and the scope was greater and villains were more sinister and powerful

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Old 03-15-2014, 09:07 AM   #552
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I'm not so sure about that.

Heck, I think the reason why Kenneth, the Director for the first "Thor" film, chose not to return for the second one is because he said that he wanted more time to prep for it but that Marvel was insistent in releasing the sequel just two years after having released the first film.

Plus, I think another problem is that they just couldn't find a Director that they wanted who could provide a SOLID vision and foundation as to where the character should go. I think it's because of that lack of vision that the studio decided to meddle in with this film's production in the amount that they did.

The things that I heard talked most about this film when they were promoting it was how Asgard felt more real and how they wanted something new for Loki's character and his dynamics with Thor.

If anything, i think the producers also wanted to capitalize on the huge following that Loki and Tom was receiving from his previous two portrayals as Loki.
I believe is was that combined with him also having other projects on his plate that he wanted to do as well that didn't mesh with Marvel's schedule (I think season/series 3 of Wallander was getting underway right around the time that production on Thor:TDW was - one of the reasons that we don't have Hiddleston's Magnus Martinsson anymore.)

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Old 03-15-2014, 10:04 AM   #553
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I didn't have a problem with it but I think it's probably easier for me to get into it, having grown up in a non-English speaking country and therefor I have gotten used to subtitles. I stopped using subs for English long ago (funnily enough I started learning English as a kid from watching English speaking cartoons, and wrestling, without subs) but I still find it easy to focus on both subs and the movie.



The issue wasn't him wanting to protect Earth, it was him having seen what is required to rule and what that can do to you, and that was something he didn't want to do. He was never really happy when he was doing his duties after the first Thor up until now, and when he also sees what depths ruling can bring you to it made him realize that it wasn't for him at all. That the Bifrost is still there is actually a relevant point of his decision as he says that he will protect Asgard when it needs him, but he doesn't want to rule it and he wants to be somewhere else.



They cleary do have feelings to me, and I think they are gotten across. The issue is that there's only negative emotions left and that drains some emotion out of you. I do agree with you on a more overall note though as they aren't really ruled by their emotions and you don't really need to humanize the ancient race of elves that actually belongs to a different version of the universe.
I'm not saying they didn't tho . Just that most of the comic fans expected the Character from the comics. They clearly aren't identical. TDW's version wasn't shown as of aggressive as the comics and the ONLY time we've SEEN that kind of aggression was the deleted scene.
I'm PERSONALLY pleased with the Darkelves, I'm saying OTHERS aren't and was saying for the better of the movie it could have been done differently

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Old 03-15-2014, 10:14 AM   #554
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I'm not so sure about that.

Heck, I think the reason why Kenneth, the Director for the first "Thor" film, chose not to return for the second one is because he said that he wanted more time to prep for it but that Marvel was insistent in releasing the sequel just two years after having released the first film.

Plus, I think another problem is that they just couldn't find a Director that they wanted who could provide a SOLID vision and foundation as to where the character should go. I think it's because of that lack of vision that the studio decided to meddle in with this film's production in the amount that they did.

The things that I heard talked most about this film when they were promoting it was how Asgard felt more real and how they wanted something new for Loki's character and his dynamics with Thor.

If anything, i think the producers also wanted to capitalize on the huge following that Loki and Tom was receiving from his previous two portrayals as Loki.
The Loki stuff wasnt a focus until late into production though, a lot of the re-shoots involved Tom and adding new Loki scenes. Thats got to be disruptive for a director and must have changed the dynamics of a lot of the movie.

So again, for me, as with TIH, Marvel was its own worst enemy here. Patty Jenkins high tailed once she realised she wasnt going to get freedom on the sequel.

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Old 03-15-2014, 10:20 AM   #555
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The Loki stuff wasnt a focus until late into production though, a lot of the re-shoots involved Tom and adding new Loki scenes. Thats got to be disruptive for a director and must have changed the dynamics of a lot of the movie.

So again, for me, as with TIH, Marvel was its own worst enemy here. Patty Jenkins high tailed once she realised she wasnt going to get freedom on the sequel.
We don't know anything about the Jenkins split. Some sources say she was fired, some say she decided to go. We'll likely never get the truth, but there's no sense in assuming one story is correct over another.

As for the Loki scenes, I think you're discounting Taylor's involvement. He said in interviews that he liked the Loki scenes he'd shot and wanted to inject more of him. I have no doubt that Marvel took it upon themselves to right a ship they thought was overturning, but let's not pretend Taylor was a passive victim here. He's a guy they brought in to pretty up Asgard. It's Marvel's fault for not taking enough time to choose a director that actually cared about the characters, too.

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Old 03-15-2014, 10:27 AM   #556
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We don't know anything about the Jenkins split. Some sources say she was fired, some say she decided to go. We'll likely never get the truth, but there's no sense in assuming one story is correct over another.

As for the Loki scenes, I think you're discounting Taylor's involvement. He said in interviews that he liked the Loki scenes he'd shot and wanted to inject more of him. I have no doubt that Marvel took it upon themselves to right a ship they thought was overturning, but let's not pretend Taylor was a passive victim here. He's a guy they brought in to pretty up Asgard. It's Marvel's fault for not taking enough time to choose a director that actually cared about the characters, too.
Exactly, they mis-managed this one from the start, and Taylor has said a lot of things, like he agree with Marvel wanting more humour in the movie, and yet he still told fans to ask for a DC and dodged important issues with the film.

Jenkins seemingly left on good terms, but whether it was her or Marvel who forced the spilt its obvious Marvel were not letting her do her thing. I dont think they let Taylor do his thing either, and thats why the movie is so jumbled.

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Old 03-15-2014, 01:09 PM   #557
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Exactly, they mis-managed this one from the start, and Taylor has said a lot of things, like he agree with Marvel wanting more humour in the movie, and yet he still told fans to ask for a DC and dodged important issues with the film.

Jenkins seemingly left on good terms, but whether it was her or Marvel who forced the spilt its obvious Marvel were not letting her do her thing. I dont think they let Taylor do his thing either, and thats why the movie is so jumbled.
I'm honestly tired of hearing complaints about the humor or how jumbled this film was. It wasn't jumbled it at all. I thought Taylor did a great job. If it's not your cup of tea it's one thing but the way it jumped around and mashed up genres like it did was absolutely true to the source and is as wacky as a Thor comic ever was. Stop trashing the movie for being what it was supposed to be.

For the people who complain - Have you ever read a Thor comic? It's all over the place. He's a viking god who's a superhero, an Avenger, and heir to the throne. He travels through space; he travels through time; he travels to Hel and back. He rides a horse or a chariot with goats, or a viking longboat, or a quinjet or a space ship. He fights mythological serpents and wolves and giants and sorcerers and aliens and living planets and planet eaters and robots and ex-cons and construction workers with magical powers and gods from other pantheons. He defends small nations, he defends Earth, he defends Asgard, he defends the universe. His best friends are basically Xena, Errol Flynn, Ghengis Khan, and an immensely fat person who can defeat his enemies by merely sitting on them.

Is there humor in none of it? What genre does all of that fit into exactly? It's all somewhat ludicrous but that's what makes it fun. The juxtaposition of weird elements that should not ever go together.

Marvel applies the right tone to the right material. Thor needs a healthy dose of humor. Cap in general does not (unless there are references to his spangly outfit which you have to admit a direct translation to film does look a little silly). The First Avenger was actually a more serious film and I expect The Winter Soldier to be as well. Iron Man 3 arguably had too much humor but RDJ is a funny guy and the humor IMO actually fit the tone for the type of film that Shane Black was going for.

I can't wait to see all the people complaining about humor in a film about a talking tree and a gun toting raccoon or a film about a guy who shrinks and talks to ants.

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Old 03-15-2014, 03:08 PM   #558
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I'm not saying they didn't tho . Just that most of the comic fans expected the Character from the comics. They clearly aren't identical. TDW's version wasn't shown as of aggressive as the comics and the ONLY time we've SEEN that kind of aggression was the deleted scene.
I'm PERSONALLY pleased with the Darkelves, I'm saying OTHERS aren't and was saying for the better of the movie it could have been done differently
Yeah, the character in the comics is clearly different. Just looking at the latest arc with him in Thor: God of Thunder he's more like the Joker of the Nine Realms, although seemingly with a more structured goal.

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Old 03-15-2014, 09:16 PM   #559
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The humour doesn't really bother me, it's the fact that the stakes never felt high (to me anyway). During the entire third act it didn't feel like the universe was actually in danger. I'm not sure why, it may be because there wasn't enough fear coming from the public. Everytime I watch the movie all I can think about is how Loki tricked everyone while everyone was distracted by Malekith despite it not being the main plot.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:57 AM   #560
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I'd LOVE to see Marvel get JMS or Jason Aaron (or both) to help write the story/screenplay for Thor 3, or at least consult on it. JMS's Thor run was awesome and Aaron's current run is also fantastic. They get Thor and his world and I'm quite confident that they could help come up with a more compelling plot/story for the next movie.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:59 AM   #561
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The humour doesn't really bother me, it's the fact that the stakes never felt high (to me anyway). During the entire third act it didn't feel like the universe was actually in danger. I'm not sure why, it may be because there wasn't enough fear coming from the public. Everytime I watch the movie all I can think about is how Loki tricked everyone while everyone was distracted by Malekith despite it not being the main plot.
And I'm still trying to figure out how the heck he did that, and how he apparently got rid of Odin? That scene was weird to me. I wonder if it was one of the scenes that was shot later on, because it really felt out of place with how the movie had gone up until that point. At least it felt out of place in that particular spot. It felt like it was jammed in there at the last minute.

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Old 03-16-2014, 01:05 AM   #562
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I'm honestly tired of hearing complaints about the humor or how jumbled this film was. It wasn't jumbled it at all. I thought Taylor did a great job. If it's not your cup of tea it's one thing but the way it jumped around and mashed up genres like it did was absolutely true to the source and is as wacky as a Thor comic ever was. Stop trashing the movie for being what it was supposed to be.

For the people who complain - Have you ever read a Thor comic? It's all over the place. He's a viking god who's a superhero, an Avenger, and heir to the throne. He travels through space; he travels through time; he travels to Hel and back. He rides a horse or a chariot with goats, or a viking longboat, or a quinjet or a space ship. He fights mythological serpents and wolves and giants and sorcerers and aliens and living planets and planet eaters and robots and ex-cons and construction workers with magical powers and gods from other pantheons. He defends small nations, he defends Earth, he defends Asgard, he defends the universe. His best friends are basically Xena, Errol Flynn, Ghengis Khan, and an immensely fat person who can defeat his enemies by merely sitting on them.

Is there humor in none of it? What genre does all of that fit into exactly? It's all somewhat ludicrous but that's what makes it fun. The juxtaposition of weird elements that should not ever go together.

Marvel applies the right tone to the right material. Thor needs a healthy dose of humor. Cap in general does not (unless there are references to his spangly outfit which you have to admit a direct translation to film does look a little silly). The First Avenger was actually a more serious film and I expect The Winter Soldier to be as well. Iron Man 3 arguably had too much humor but RDJ is a funny guy and the humor IMO actually fit the tone for the type of film that Shane Black was going for.

I can't wait to see all the people complaining about humor in a film about a talking tree and a gun toting raccoon or a film about a guy who shrinks and talks to ants.
No one is complaining about there being humor in the movie. They're complaining about the amount of humor, the type of humor, and where it was placed. There was too much of it, a lot of it just wasn't funny, and it was placed in areas that should have been taken more seriously and thus killed any kind of tension or threat. I really liked the humor in the first movie and thought that it balanced out well with the darker material. TDW didn't mesh nearly as well. Also, all of those fantasy elements that you mentioned CAN be done seriously. There doesn't need to be a ton of humor. LOTR didn't have a joke every two minutes, neither did Harry Potter, neither did JMS's Thor run for that matter, or Jason Aaron's current run. So it can be done.

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Old 03-16-2014, 04:59 AM   #563
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No one is complaining about there being humor in the movie. They're complaining about the amount of humor, the type of humor, and where it was placed. There was too much of it, a lot of it just wasn't funny, and it was placed in areas that should have been taken more seriously and thus killed any kind of tension or threat. I really liked the humor in the first movie and thought that it balanced out well with the darker material. TDW didn't mesh nearly as well. Also, all of those fantasy elements that you mentioned CAN be done seriously. There doesn't need to be a ton of humor. LOTR didn't have a joke every two minutes, neither did Harry Potter, neither did JMS's Thor run for that matter, or Jason Aaron's current run. So it can be done.
I feel the complaints about the amount of humor in this movie are severely overblown. (Iron Man 3 for instance had far more comedy than this film.) There were far more serious moments in this film than in the first one. And I would hardly say there was a joke every two minutes. That's exaggerating. The ending admittedly has a bit more comedy but it felt consistent to me with the fact most of the comedy was Earth based. Asgard and the other realms had far less levity.

The comedy worked for me because on Earth a space viking and his flying hammer is out of place. You take that too seriously and it becomes pretentious. As far as the diminished tension, after the bore-fest of Man of Steel and all its disaster porn I almost felt Marvel made a conscious choice to keep it fun this go around. I'm sorry you did not enjoy the humor but I found the jokes very funny and so did a lot of other people. It's interesting to me that a lot of critics did not enjoy the movie until the final act which they felt saved it. Along with general audiences they also enjoyed Earth more than Asgard. It seems comic fans feel the opposite. Personally I would love more of the Nine Realms and the Warriors Three but I don't begrudge this film for doing its thing.

Also I feel you kind of miss my point about the examples I gave - they are examples of not just fantasy but fantasy and sci-fi mixed together. I don't think I've ever seen that done before in a film. Thor should not be LOTR because LOTR takes place not on Earth but in Middle Earth. (And honestly PJ's totally lost it with the latest Hobbit installments IMO.) And Harry Potter doesn't travel on space ships to other planets. Can you think of any other examples to which to compare this to?

We're probably coming from two different perspectives here. My favorite Thor is not JMS but Lee/Kirby with Walt Simonson a very close second. I'm a huge fan of the Silver Age and a lot of that stuff was pretty wacky. Thor vs. Hercules cracks me up. I liked JMS's brooding Thor because it was different and well done but it's not vintage Thor to me. It's just another spin. I've heard good things about Jason Aaron's run but I've yet to read it because people raved about his Wolverine run and that did absolutely nothing for me.

I look at this as just one chapter in Thor's story. I will agree with you that a change in writing direction can be a good thing. From what I hear, for Thor 3 Marvel has hired a really good writing team in Craig Kyle and Chris Yost. Don Payne who worked on the previous two films is no longer with us (RIP) and some of his other writing credits were nothing to brag about (the FF films). I would've liked to have seen Alan Taylor have another go with more creative freedom but for some reason, I also doubt that he will be back. So my thinking is that Thor 3 will be a bit different. If they do switch directors a third time, I just hope they keep all of the visual contributions from Taylor - in that respect alone he improved on the first film significantly.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:10 PM   #564
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When I think about it now, I remember on how most of the biggest praise for this film (that I recall at least) where primarily centered on Loki and the visuals.

I think the last time that i remember Thor being in the spotlight and center of attention from reviews was back in his first film, but Loki has been allowed to seemingly overshadow him within their last two appearances, which is rather sad when I think about it. I truly believe that Thor, as a character, has a lot to offer and show on screen that would be just as interesting as anything we've gotten with Tom's Loki.

Also, I feel like Marvel somewhat held back on fully exploring the notion that Odin and his father before him weren't the so noble kings that people had portrayed them to be as they have their own list of unethical things that they've done in order to secure and maintain Asgard's safety and status.

I think it would have really made for some compelling storytelling if they had gone deeper into that.

I really hope that Marvel Studios finds someone who has a CLEAR vision of what needs to be down for Thor, not Loki, but Thor as a character.

I'm hopeful that Marvel studios is taking their time with this third installment, due to the fact that we have a third Captain America film coming out before this one.

And more importantly, hope the next Thor film actually centers around him.
Is it confirmed that CA3 is coming before Thor 3? I am going to be really dissapointed if that's true.

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Old 03-16-2014, 12:49 PM   #565
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Is it confirmed that CA3 is coming before Thor 3? I am going to be really dissapointed if that's true.
Yeah, because they are rehiring the Cap 2 directors. They are better prepared for a Cap sequel than a Thor sequel.

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Old 03-16-2014, 02:00 PM   #566
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I'd love to see Marvel bring in JMS or Jason Aaron (or both) to help write the story for Thor 3, or at least as consultants. JMS's Thor run was awesome and Aaron's current run is also fantastic. They both get Thor and his world and I'm quite confident that they could come up with a much more interesting/engaging/ story than what we got in TDW (or even in the first film).

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Old 03-16-2014, 03:58 PM   #567
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Yeah, because they are rehiring the Cap 2 directors. They are better prepared for a Cap sequel than a Thor sequel.
Sigh. I don't even know why people want 3 Cap movies. He's kind of a boring character.

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Old 03-16-2014, 04:28 PM   #568
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Sigh. I don't even know why people want 3 Cap movies. He's kind of a boring character.
To you maybe, there are plenty of us that enjoy him and don't find him boring

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Old 03-16-2014, 05:15 PM   #569
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Cap,like Thor,is an awesome character for me.

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Old 03-16-2014, 06:31 PM   #570
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Cap,like Thor,is an awesome character for me.
Agreed. Cap and Thor are two of my favorite Avengers and they also are my favorite films in the MCU right now (outside of Avengers of course). Brubaker's run was awesome as well. I hope the new film delivers. I am totally psyched about all the positive word of mouth it's getting.

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Old 03-16-2014, 08:27 PM   #571
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The humour doesn't really bother me, it's the fact that the stakes never felt high (to me anyway). During the entire third act it didn't feel like the universe was actually in danger. I'm not sure why, it may be because there wasn't enough fear coming from the public. Everytime I watch the movie all I can think about is how Loki tricked everyone while everyone was distracted by Malekith despite it not being the main plot.
Exactly, the universe was ending and people are running around making jokes and Thor gets on a train, that scene in particular was awful stuff. The finale of Anchorman had more danger and stakes if felt like at times.

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No one is complaining about there being humor in the movie. They're complaining about the amount of humor, the type of humor, and where it was placed. There was too much of it, a lot of it just wasn't funny, and it was placed in areas that should have been taken more seriously and thus killed any kind of tension or threat. I really liked the humor in the first movie and thought that it balanced out well with the darker material. TDW didn't mesh nearly as well. Also, all of those fantasy elements that you mentioned CAN be done seriously. There doesn't need to be a ton of humor. LOTR didn't have a joke every two minutes, neither did Harry Potter, neither did JMS's Thor run for that matter, or Jason Aaron's current run. So it can be done.
Again, exactly, the humour was so poorly placed it ruined many moments in the movie that should have been important. There never seemed any tension or danger because of this and the final battle became really boring to me for the same reason. I just wish they hadnt made Taylor put more humour in as it nearly ruins the movie for me.

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2014 movie ratings out of 10:

1)X-Men: DOFP-10(2)Dawn Of The Planet Of The Apes-9.5(3)Guardians Of The Galaxy-9.5(4)Captain America: TWS-9(5)Edge Of Tomorrow-9(6)How To Train Your Dragon 2-9(7)Wolf Of Wall Street-8.5(8)Godzilla-8(9)Neighbours-8(10)Amazing Spider-Man 2-7.5(11)Lego Movie-7.5(12)Transformers: Age Of Extinction-7.5(13)Robocop-7.5(14)Sin City: ADTDF-7(15)300:ROAE-7(16)Million Ways To Die In The West-7(17)47 Ronin-6(18)Monuments Men-5(19)Ride Along-5(20)I, Frankenstein-3
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:32 PM   #572
Whiskey Tango
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Manhunter View Post
Sigh. I don't even know why people want 3 Cap movies. He's kind of a boring character.
It... it's almost like different people like different things. What a concept!

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Old 03-17-2014, 12:21 AM   #573
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

I kind of wish we could find out what was in the original shooting script for this film since it seems like A LOT of stuff was cut out of this film, especially when you look at the "BTS" features.

What I wouldn't give if an "extended" or even "Director's" cut of the film could be released for this film.

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Old 03-17-2014, 02:49 AM   #574
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

I still contend that the everything that takes place BEFORE the start of the film would have made a far better story to see than what we got. Imagine it... Thor, traveling around the Nine Realms, Sif and the Warriors Three in tow, leading the armies of Asgard on a mission to pacify places/kingdoms under the threat of chaos unleashed by Asgard not having the Bifrost to send it's forces out. Thor, having to lead both warriors into battle, and act as emissary of Odin to the other realms? C'mon... it already sounds like the potential is 100x the story in the actual film itself.

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Old 03-17-2014, 07:32 AM   #575
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Default Re: Thor 2 Dark World news, speculation and pictures possible Spoilers - - -

Regardless of our feelings about aspects of the movie the numbers don't lie..TDW was a huge success and audiences loved it...

Domestic: $206,195,536 32.1% + Foreign: $435,295,000 67.9% = Worldwide: $641,490,536

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