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Old 03-30-2014, 03:21 AM   #351
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I would probably say my order of preference is...

1. Captain marvel
2. Black panther
3. Inhumans
4. She hulk tv series
5. Doctor strange

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Old 03-30-2014, 03:25 AM   #352
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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The guy looks fat

I'd like to see Chiwetel Ejiofor as T'Chaka and Boseman as T'Challa.
I have a solution to that problem. It's called a gym.

Chris Pratt, Hugh Jackman, Chris Hemsworth etc.

I know Nonso isn't the obvious choice but you guys really need to check out his past roles. Theatre trained, various different role types from tv shows to big budget movies. He's basically a lesser known Idris or Chiwetel. And just like them he has a strong connection to his African roots. Coming from Africa myself it's very obvious to spot fake's in Hollywood movie's. Idris (Yes I know he's Heimdal just humor me), Chiwetel and Nonso are my one front runners tbh.


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Old 03-30-2014, 03:54 AM   #353
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

1. Inhumans
2. Doctor Strange
3. Black Panther
4. Ms. Marvel

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Old 03-30-2014, 07:36 AM   #354
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

1. Dr. Strange
2. Black Panther
3. Inhumans

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Old 03-30-2014, 08:45 AM   #355
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

1. Black Panther
2. Ms. Marvel
3. Dr. Strange
4. Inhumans
5. Black Widow

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:13 AM   #356
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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You're emphasizing "glossed over". I'm emphasizing "to start". I never said 'Wakanda-less'.

What I'm saying is sell the audience on the king before the kingdom. Instead of opening like Thor and showing Asgard in all its awesome splendor and saying "T'Challa is heir to all of this," you really could do it as more of a human story, him putting the pieces together before assuming the throne.

As you said "It's not selling one incredibly successful minority person..." I can agree with that.

But what I'm truly saying is, this isn't about how Marvel 'sells' Black Panther's story at all.

Will general audiences buy it? I'm saying Marvel is afraid that they won't. And to try costs resources they don't want to risk on their 2 blockbuster a year budget when they have 'surer bets' in their stable. So it's not the conceit of Wakanda, it's that the entire thing is a gamble.

These female driven franchises will help in the long run (Hunger Games, Divergent). Before long Marvel or DC will dip their toe in the pool with a female led comic hero and then if that succeeds, we just might get BP.
Oh, I see. I thought when you said 'craft a film completely around' something other than Wakanda, I thought you meant all but excluding Wakanda, making it a footnote and detail rather than his mission. I could enjoy a film that was largely outside of Wakanda, but it seems impossible to me for a Black Panther movie to capture the spirit of the character but not start and end in Wakanda.

Why would they hire script writers and take pitches if they thought the basic concept was something audiences won't buy no matter how well they sell it? I don't think they're lying, I think they're simply scared. It may be of the same things that you're mentioning, but wouldn't they naturally look for a pitch that did make it fit in a sub-genre? And wouldn't this basically be a setting issue, bringing BP's world to life?

And I would contend that at this point in our history-ignorant history, to the public at large the Black Panther Party is about as well known as the Rainbow Coalition. Black history to the masses is Africa -> Slavery -> MLK (Maybe Malcom X) -> Music and Sports figures -> Barack Obama. Most people associate the name Black Panther with the animal, nothing more or less. This lack of public appeal or lead star power has not dissuaded them from GotG or Iron Man.

At the end of the day, either the challenge is the setting, or they're outright lying. The setting is a challenge that we haven't dealt with here based on their stated and demonstrated criteria (bringing something new to the table), and the other issues are ones they deal with regularly and seem to quite prefer it that way. If Marvel Studios is thinks the audience will simply not take to black heroes no matter what, then why put any effort beyond lipservice? Why work on it at all, why mention the setting instead of the character? It's not like saying Wakanda is unrealistic is any less offensive than saying BP isn't interesting to the audience. Your theory requires Marvel Studios be far out of their normal MO on this property. My theory has no contradictions unless MS has access to a Wakanda-lite (?) BP movie that captures the spirit of a Wakanda-obsessed character.

On why they haven't pulled the BW trigger, they gave an explanation for that: it wouldn't get them much 'credit.' I suspect this would be even more true if it were a lower budget thing. So the only motivation to do a BW movie would be to fill out their universe, and that can be more popularly and even more cheaply done by continue to make her story a plot point in the Cap and Avengers movies.

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:22 AM   #357
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I don't like Nonso as Black Panther at all.

He'd make a better Kingpin or a villain in the movie.

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:32 AM   #358
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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If where still talking about casting I'll throw my choice into the mix.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1996829/
Nonso Anozie is a phenomenal actor, great physical presence, African heritage, and a fresh face
Great actor. I would also agree he has the wrong body type, and would also agree that he'd be a great M'Baka/Man-Ape. Keep in mind it's not just about being muscular, T'Challa is a lithe acrobatic type fighter. I don't think Anozie would be a good call to capture that physicality. He's 6'6" for a reason. Let him be the huge character. Let him surprise us with how much depth he can bring to those guys who are usually just "the big guy." Give him Michael Clark Duncan's woulda-been parts, he'll do crazy great at them, no doubt. A Man Ape who's more than just a slobbering um... ape, would be awesome. Anozie could show us a character who feels abandoned by progress, who feels tied to the old ways even though he knows they mean death for him and his people, a mountain of a man with the heart of a twisted child. Terry Crews, as awesome as he is in his way, doesn't do that. Let Anozie be that guy, let's not try to make him into a 6'0" acrobat.

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Old 03-30-2014, 11:20 AM   #359
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I'm not doubting the talents of Anozie. It's just to me, body wise, he's not a fit for T'Challa.

As for Black Heroes in the MCU, if Marvel Studios believes that the General Audience doesn't like them, then why add Falcon in Cap 2? If Marvel believed that, then they would have added Clint Barton in Falcon's place. Why did they announce Luke Cage? Why did they not stay true to the comics and have a white guy play Heimdall? Or why would they hire the only black actress who's an A-Lister (in terms of box office success) in Zoe Saldana for Guardians of the Galaxy?

The General audience will buy Black Panther. As we've said, in order to attract the mainstream audience, you are obviously going to need a white person or two. Instead of Everett Ross, why not Clint Barton? He gets to appear in between Avengers films plus he's already established in the MCU to the point where we don't need to waste minutes introducing him. Maybe throw Banner in there too, not Hulk, but Banner.

Since Iron Man 2, Marvel Studios has a streak going of casting black actors in their movies:

Iron Man 2- Don Cheadle, Samuel L. Jackson
Thor- Idris Elba
Captain America: The First Avenger- Derek Luke
The Avengers- Jackson
Iron Man 3- Cheadle
Thor: The Dark World- Elba, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje
Captain America: The Winter Soldier- Anthony Mackie, Jackson
Guardians of the Galaxy- Zoe Saldana, Djimon Hounsou
Avengers: Age of Ultron- Jackson

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Old 03-30-2014, 01:12 PM   #360
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

Has anyone seen the short lived Black Panther animated series? What do people think about adapting those episode's in the live action feature? The animation was horrible but the story was solid. They'll have to change a few things, but the overall frame work, theme's and depiction of the characters were perfect.

Ep1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL1IpmuHff8
Ep3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJGXjVbF6bw
Ep4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw4m4JCn9bU
Ep5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6vXEqJ7ReQ
Ep6 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9fUDr2_XWo
(Can't find the 2nd ep)

It would be nice for them to find another use for Batroc in the Cinematic U after his appearance in Captain America. He was a surprisingly large part of the BP animated series.


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Old 03-30-2014, 08:55 PM   #361
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I think the BP animated series (I believe it was financed largely by Hudlin himself, calling actors for favors and the like, accounting for the rough animation, as it was basically just a guy making it, as opposed to the company trying to make it great) was a great starting place for a BP film. The story was right out of Hudlin's run and though some of the Hudlinisms would need to be toned down, the idea of BP returning to the throne makes a lot of sense if they go with an older Panther like Ejiofor.

On the political firestarter that is Wakanda's subtext, I think it might be wise and topical to make Klaw the head of a military contractor and give him some black henchmen, so he's representing 'big business' as opposed to 'western colonialism.'

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Old 03-30-2014, 09:47 PM   #362
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I actually enjoyed the BP series. It had that retro 60's Marvel toon feel.

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Old 03-30-2014, 10:27 PM   #363
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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There's stuff I really like about the Hudlin BP run and the toon, but there is also stuff I am not too happy about.

That being said, at this point I'd take a freakin' page by page recreation in live action as opposed to nothing at all.

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Old 03-31-2014, 09:33 PM   #364
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I'm going to share one of the many ideas that have been kicking around in my head for awhile, I understand it is a bit unorthodox but I'd like you all to keep an open mind given a BP movie would likely be an origin.

What if T'Challa was an ambassador to the UN instead of King, while his father T'Chakka served as King? T'Challa through a series of tragedies and tribulations(Recently Deceased/Deposed Father, Political Turmoil, or Big Business/Neo Western Colonialism etc) in his homeland and must ascend to the throne and the mantle of The Black Panther(opposite of Thor 1) or simply defend the throne(I prefer ascend).

Other Thoughts:
-Hawkeye instead of Ross(an idea that has caught on here, though what I hear about CA:TWS might make this idea unworkable
-Amalgamate The White Wolf with one of The White Tigers
-Each Panther wears a suit that fits their own personal style and T'Challa's is especially modern
-T'Challa is well versed in the Martial Arts of the World Muay Tai, Capoeira, Wing Chun, Western Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, Staffs, Swords

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Old 04-01-2014, 03:43 PM   #365
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

An under the radar pick I put in another thread, Hisham Tawfiq from The Blacklist.



If they wanted to do more casting like Chris Hemsworth for the first Thor, this guy would be an interesting choice.

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Old 04-02-2014, 06:40 PM   #366
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Old 04-02-2014, 08:48 PM   #367
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Old 04-04-2014, 04:59 AM   #368
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

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I Googled David Williams Watt, and there are no pics of the actor. All Google images shows is pictures of white guys.

haha, David Williams Watt doesnt exist its just a character

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Old 04-04-2014, 05:08 AM   #369
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And loads of white nerds. And at least, one brown nerd.

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Old 04-04-2014, 09:35 AM   #370
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

I have a feeling that Marvel is anticipating the aftermath of Avengers 3, and the possibility that the actors (RDJ, Hemsworth, and Evans) may all retire at the same time once their contract expires. Feige have talked about recasting, but I doubt they will be doing it anytime soon, since they knew instant recasting may create backlash and not worth the trouble. Besides, any of those actors might change his mind later and reprise his role again down the line. That's why I think Marvel is holding BP back for Phase 4, because he might be the one who will headline the new Avengers team when the Big Three got their curtain call.

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Old 04-04-2014, 10:07 AM   #371
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If by hefty you mean well built and muscular then, No I don't think he is too hefty to play an athletic super hero. It's not like he a bodybuilder.
His acting talent's would be completelty wasted on characters like Man Ape or Killmonger.
I agree he'd be wasted on Man Ape (who should never appear...at least not under that name), but he'd work for Killmonger.

He'd also work for Zuri...they could age him up with make-up.

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Old 04-04-2014, 10:39 AM   #372
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I agree he'd be wasted on Man Ape (who should never appear...at least not under that name), but he'd work for Killmonger.

He'd also work for Zuri...they could age him up with make-up.
Yeah, as someone not very familiar with Black Panther, that name stood out in a bad way. They'd be fine with just using his given name of M'Baku though.

With that in mind, I've long thought that the challenge of making a BP movie is the visually backwards nature of Wakandan society. I understand that it's supposed to be anachronistic on purpose, but I don't think it'd be a very smart idea to portray a supremely advanced African nature the way they look in the comics. I feel like there's so many PC problems with adapting the source material to a film that it scares the living **** out of Marvel execs. They'll certainly find a way to include BP in the MCU, but I wouldn't be shocked if there's a fairly vast departure from the look of Wakandans and some other aspects of the comics.

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Old 04-04-2014, 01:20 PM   #373
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I agree he'd be wasted on Man Ape (who should never appear...at least not under that name), but he'd work for Killmonger.

He'd also work for Zuri...they could age him up with make-up.
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Yeah, as someone not very familiar with Black Panther, that name stood out in a bad way. They'd be fine with just using his given name of M'Baku though.
Agree on all fronts
Quote:
With that in mind, I've long thought that the challenge of making a BP movie is the visually backwards nature of Wakandan society. I understand that it's supposed to be anachronistic on purpose, but I don't think it'd be a very smart idea to portray a supremely advanced African nature the way they look in the comics. I feel like there's so many PC problems with adapting the source material to a film that it scares the living **** out of Marvel execs. They'll certainly find a way to include BP in the MCU, but I wouldn't be shocked if there's a fairly vast departure from the look of Wakandans and some other aspects of the comics.
What if the wakandans looked like other modern digital age africans and only wore the traditional outfits during ceremonies and such

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Old 04-04-2014, 04:24 PM   #374
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Default Re: EVERYTHING Black Panther - Part 4

That would make the most sense. But then you kinda make Wakanda a normal place... so how does it then make sense to be this place that gives birth to this incredible thing any more than South Africa or Kenya? Plus the whole losing the spirit of the comics thing. And y'know, Vibranium being a huge thing.

One modern take is that Wakanda has been lost, not just to the rest of the world, but to the Wakandans. T'Chaka was 'the last' but now T'Challa is reviving this thing that was all but dead. Has a meta effect too, in a way.

M'Baka (because of this theme, he has to be in there) then is the ancient enemy of the panthers, who believes in the old ways, and is thus a terror to the modernized Wakandans. T'Challa engages the old ways, rediscovers his people's heritage and vibranium and fuses it with the new ways, thus making Wakanda a super power (in political terms). This takes a radical departure from the way Wakanda is in the comics, as this longstanding political super power that's hidden and allows it to become what is in the comics, thanks to T'Challa's help.

To further deepen it, you could have a 'civil war' between the new digital Wakandans and the old tribal Wakandans, and it is T'Challa who bridges the gap.

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Old 04-04-2014, 05:00 PM   #375
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I think it's deeper than that. I think there's a reason they mentioned a believable Wakanda specifically as the challenge. It's not selling one incredibly successful minority person, that's been done a dozen times, case in point: Barack Obama.

I think the challenge is a nation full of beasts, not just because they're black people... if they were on some alien planet it wouldn't really be a challenge, but it's that there's a nation of black people who are beasts in the modern world with no effect. That's a challenge. A lot of comics fans are satisfied with the comics status quo, but when it's pointed out that these are people who have the cure for cancer and simply choose not to share it with the world, reminding us that they have done so with all their advancements in every field, and apparently always will, it's a problem that casts a shadow over the character of the entire people.

Reconciling the idealized Wakanda with the reality of a very unidealized world, and an especially disenfranchised Africa is no mean feat. Doing what's done before isn't satisfactory. But at the same time, if you reconcile Wakanda with reality, then it no longer has it's most fundamental trait: being better than everyone else while doing what no realistic culture would do (appear backwards).

Without the contrivances of comics, Wakanda, as it is in comics now, existing in the MCU doesn't make sense. Similarly if an active Sentry or Blue Marvel was living on Earth, it would make little sense if they had not ever been mentioned or interacted with in the story we've seen so far.

The challenge they have is finding that balance between representing Wakanda and representing real life. Wakanda doesn't just defy physics like most superheroes, it defies natural sociology. A nation full of people who existed and knew about all the wars and needs in human history, and not a single one of them has ever decided to help or hurt the outside world with their advanced technology. A superpowerful nation that never gets mentioned by anyone or has any effect on anything?


My Solution:

Martial Arts revenge epic. Wakanda as a beautiful backdrop, not unlike Japan is used in other martial arts epics. So it becomes a mystical land of a different flavor, not because it's full of dragons or it's somehow disconnected from the world, but simply because it's untouched, and naturally beautiful. They still have the anachronism, wearing Kente and using their tablets, like any well to do African might, but not so much a place from a sci-fi movie, at least not at first.

The tech and advancement of Wakanda should be, imho, very secondary. In the beginning, way back in FF Wakanda's advancement was a direct result of Black Panther's awesomeness, his going off to school, learning and then coming back with his brilliance and inventing tons of goodies. Wakanda was Jungle, all through BP vol 1, with the exception of the palace city. In recent decades Wakanda has become this ancient superkingdom that would have been just as great, maybe greater, if T'Challa had never been born.

I'd take the MCU version of Wakanda back to the original concept, where T'Challa is the one who has made Wakanda a super power, a technical monstrosity. It'd be this unspoiled area in what was in ancient times a lost kingdom like Kush or Timbuktu, but this one simply "vanished," the last vestiges of it seemingly being the Black Panther cult/tribe/chieftain. T'Chaka tries to make moves, get's killed, T'Challa eventually steps up to the plate. By the end of the movie, he has his palace and some high tech army unit and you can see this guy has built a kingdom.
Thanks for that. I enjoyed reading you thoughts.



Daredevil has always been my favorite superhero...but I've always felt BP, if handle right...was a similar...yet...potentially "better" character.

Unfortunately...as you've outlined...its a risky...delicate proposition for Marvel. Its going to require they change a bit of what Wakanda has been portrayed as traditionally...without losing what makes it and T'Challa so unique.

Whomever the get to play BP will need to have a greater 'presence' than Ive seen from a minority in a superhero film.

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