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Old 04-22-2014, 05:03 PM   #701
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 4

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Yeah. I hate listening to it from the fans, and it's irritating that the studios themselves seem to be playing into it.
Same here.

To be fair, it goes all the way back to Lee's days on the Marvel books: his potshots and frequent jabs at DC-such as ripping on "the long underwear heroes" in Amazing Fantasy 15-ended up serving as rocket fuel to a tension that would only grow over the next few decades, and become even more heated following both companies' entrances into film.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:04 PM   #702
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To me, this whole thing sets a bad precedent for both sides. We had a situation where a company staked out a movie date for their CBM. Then another company moved their CBM to the exact same date, knowing full well that it was muscling the other company out of the way.

I don't care which company you put in either of those roles, I don't like it. If Marvel moves, it's only going to make them more likely to treat DC this way in the future. If DC announced Flash coming out in 2018 and Marvel decided to move Avengers 3 to that weekend, I'd feel the same way. It's posturing for the sake of posturing.

Before you reply with "Marvel didn't announce anything," I understand what you're saying, but you and I disagree.

And yes, this is business and no one has broken a law here. I just think it adds unnecessary flames to an otherwise peaceful coexistence.
Well I think it was just generally in poor taste for WB to be so damn clueless about their DCCU that they had to delay the movie a full year, and then as if to distract people from that delay they decided to put it on the same date Marvel claimed. It just makes them look desperate, stupid, or both.

But, on the flip side, I really don't like the precedent Marvel was setting with their whole "we're announcing a movie will come out on these specific dates, but we're not announcing the movies." Nah, if you're going to "reserve" a date then announce the film at the same damn time. If you're not ready to announce the movies then you're not ready to reserve a date; it's that simple.

So hopefully, by DC doing what they did it blows up that precedent Marvel was trying to set.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:06 PM   #703
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It was an example of how selection works. Surely every studio would rather clear skies. If your issue is in fact the vying for the 'same' audience/demo element, then releasing a week before or after wouldn't quell that, and I'm sure you yourself can find examples of that thing happening.
If marvel want's the spot that's their problem. Wb isn't forcing them into anything(such as losing money).

Move or stay but the insistence not to move says something about the value of the spot. Something they and their fans seemingly think they are entitled to?
At this point I don't believe it's the value of the spot. It's the potential hit someone will take by being the first to blink. I also don't buy the argument that this is only a problem in the fan's eyes. I see lots of entertainment news outlets covering it, all salivating at the thought of a "release date war" between the two longtime rivals. WB created drama when they moved in on the date and Marvel furthered the drama by announcing the planned movie was Cap 3. You think modern news outlets are going to ignore that kind of stuff? I don't. We're talking about a multi-billion dollar movie genre. I'm surprised CNN doesn't have a 24-hour response team sitting outside both studios right now.

Again, this isn't about entitlement. No one is claiming they're owed that weekend. Like I said in my original post, it's what this does for the future that I don't like.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:06 PM   #704
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 4

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Well I think it was just generally in poor taste for WB to be so damn clueless about their DCCU that they had to delay the movie a full year, and then as if to distract people from that delay they decided to put it on the same date Marvel claimed. It just makes them look desperate, stupid, or both.

But, on the flip side, I really don't like the precedent Marvel was setting with their whole "we're announcing a movie will come out on these specific dates, but we're not announcing the movies." Nah, if you're going to "reserve" a date then announce the film at the same damn time. If you're not ready to announce the movies then you're not ready to reserve a date; it's that simple.

So hopefully, by DC doing what they did it blows up that precedent Marvel was trying to set.
If they announced the films that early, fans would be railing on them for announcing them too early (we have a thread for that on the Hype.) At the end of the day, WB was the douche in this case.

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"I've known since I first took over the series that I wanted to eventually have someone else pick up the hammer," says the writer. "It's kind of a time-honored Thor tradition at this point, isn't it? Going back to the days of Beta Ray Bill."
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Old 04-22-2014, 05:06 PM   #705
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 4

Same things happen in a few other industries as far as fans are concerned. The game industry for example.

The companies have been pretty good with this save for that one Cap3 panel(and a few other instances).

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:10 PM   #706
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At this point I don't believe it's the value of the spot. It's the potential hit someone will take by being the first to blink. I also don't buy the argument that this is only a problem in the fan's eyes. I see lots of entertainment news outlets covering it, all salivating at the thought of a "release date war" between the two longtime rivals. WB created drama when they moved in on the date and Marvel furthered the drama by announcing the planned movie was Cap 3. You think modern news outlets are going to ignore that kind of stuff? I don't. We're talking about a multi-billion dollar movie genre. I'm surprised CNN doesn't have a 24-hour response team sitting outside both studios right now.

Again, this isn't about entitlement. No one is claiming they're owed that weekend. Like I said in my original post, it's what this does for the future that I don't like.
I didn't mean 'fans' but rather people interested in these films/brands. Same for Avatar and starwars at this point. There is so much cross media that the 'fan' mentality spills over into a much larger audience and the trades pick up on that(give how they make their money).

As for the precedent set going forward. If marvel concedes now, then perhaps the "first of the summer" may spot won't always belong to them going forward. That's all I see here.
In hindsight I bet WB is thinking things would have gone even better for them and worse for their competition had 2008 gone this way.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:15 PM   #707
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If they announced the films that early, fans would be railing on them for announcing them too early (we have a thread for that on the Hype.) At the end of the day, WB was the douche in this case.
But that' why I said if you're not ready to announce the movies then don't announce a specific date. As far as etiquette would go, this seems to be a no brainer.

They can announce Coming in Spring 2016 or even May 2016. Something vague like that every studio does. But "claiming" a specific date without anything concrete to announce is just obnoxious. It makes Marvel seem too cocky too.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:20 PM   #708
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As for the precedent set going forward. If marvel concedes now, then perhaps the "first of the summer" may spot won't always belong to them going forward. That's all I see here.
In hindsight I bet WB is thinking things would have gone even better for them and worse for their competition had 2008 gone this way.
It never belonged to Marvel, no more than mid-July belonged to WB. This was a strongarm move on the part of a company that knew they had a more popular product to put out that weekend. To quote a certain 98lb weakling, "I don't like bullies. I don't care who they are."

I don't understand your 2008 comment.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:28 PM   #709
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I think the whole thing is stupid. I don't care who keeps the spot, I just want one of the films would move because I don't want one film to drastically eat away at the other's box office; I want them both to be huge.

Enough with this stupid DC vs. Marvel pissing contest.
They'll both be huge, regardless of if they occupy the same spot.

People will see both, and the dent in each respective box office numbers will be minimal; far less than people think.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:30 PM   #710
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 4

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WB is probably playing quiet and planning the mother of all Comic con panels for this soon coming july. Complete with costumes and castings...

That being said their competition will be bringing that footage though.
The Marvel people can bring cookies & pie, too for all I care...when those BvS suits/stills/promos start rolling in, everyone's gonna take notice.

On a side note...we're done with all that stupid Snyder/Watchmen hate now, yes? Good.

Gotta say, this movie is going to be huge...'controversial' films usually are because of the word of mouth generated, but the obvious bias and vitriol toward BvS is getting rediculous; a lot of comic/film sites aren't even remotely trying to hide the bias anymore and have devolved to simply just s**t talking.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:35 PM   #711
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It never belonged to Marvel, no more than mid-July belonged to WB. This was a strongarm move on the part of a company that knew they had a more popular product to put out that weekend. To quote a certain 98lb weakling, "I don't like bullies. I don't care who they are."

I don't understand your 2008 comment.
I don't think the word bully belongs anywhere near such discussions. They both want the valuable spot and whomever wants it more will keep on keeping on. At least in the olympics people have to qualify for the 'inside lane'. Here you seemingly get it if you ask for it first....

My comment about 2008 pertains to that being the year IM set the summer off in May, and TDK closed out the summer in July. Starting off the summer with not a word of any other film in peoples hearts and minds no doubt helped IM to a degree. By the time TDK dropped it had to deal with the 'precedent' set in the audience mind by the big surprise hit of the summer. Flip that around, and have all that was Heath and TDK set precedent for the summer and have IM debut and content with the zeitgeist...
It would be different is all and I'm starting to wonder if WB is getting hip to that. Especially after 2012.

I personally noticed this phenomena back when everyone was buzzing about Spiderman during the entire discourse of 2002's summer. Itself having to deal with none of that during it's own start and follow through.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:44 PM   #712
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Ah, so now that Marvel is possibly going to be the one to move, they're smart and thinking about the best interest of their property ... if DC moved or does move for some reason, they're scared and weak ... typical ... and what would hear from Devin if it occurred.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:50 PM   #713
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Devin is full of crap.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:53 PM   #714
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Devin is full of crap.
Devin may be awful at times (I still read him, so he's got me there) ... but his comment section is even worse. I don't know if he pilfers through and deletes people, but good God, that article/comments is really nothing more than a Marvel love fest /DC hate fest ... going back and forth about how crap everything DC represents is ... and how so and so (that they know) doesn't like Affleck or want to see a film with him. It's just nauseating, but if you click on the article, you have to expect it.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:55 PM   #715
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Devin may be awful at times (I still read him, so he's got me there) ... but his comment section is even worse. I don't know if he pilfers through and deletes people, but good God, that article is really nothing more than a Marvel love fest /DC hate fest ... going back and forth about how crap everything DC represents is ... and how so and so (that they know) doesn't like Affleck or want to see a film with him. It's just nauseating, but if you click on the article, you have to expect it.
It truly is ridiculous. I avoid most of his stuff now. He and his followers are indeed nauseating. Bias at its annoying worst.

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Old 04-22-2014, 05:55 PM   #716
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These are my saturation settings in VLC for MOS. It gives an idea of what the movie might have been with natural colors.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:05 PM   #717
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Devin may be awful at times (I still read him, so he's got me there) ... but his comment section is even worse. I don't know if he pilfers through and deletes people, but good God, that article/comments is really nothing more than a Marvel love fest /DC hate fest ... going back and forth about how crap everything DC represents is ... and how so and so (that they know) doesn't like Affleck or want to see a film with him. It's just nauseating, but if you click on the article, you have to expect it.
Actually it is more of a "Marvel Studios Love Fest". Venture into that comments section for the Spider-Man or X-Men movies and it goes really crazy.

His recent articles about TWS goes how great it has held at the box office and how it has spent 3 weeks on top. MoS would have spent 3 weeks on top with the exact same amount it earned every weekend of its run.

I still feel WB did a mistake releasing MoS in June, they should have swapped MoS and Pacific Rim release dates last year.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:05 PM   #718
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If they announced the films that early, fans would be railing on them for announcing them too early (we have a thread for that on the Hype.) At the end of the day, WB was the douche in this case.
There are no douches here, it's just business.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:07 PM   #719
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I still feel WB did a mistake releasing MoS in June, they should have swapped MoS and Pacific Rim release dates last year.
I agree with this. MOS had a chance and did well even in June. Pacific Rim didn't do much and that spot was wasted. I would have liked to see what MOS could have done in July.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:11 PM   #720
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I agree with this. MOS had a chance and did well even in June. Pacific Rim didn't do much and that spot was wasted. I would have liked to see what MOS could have done in July.
July was wide open imo. Not just on paper but in terms of how the releases ended up performing. One would think if WB really did have alot riding on MOS they would have at least taken some precaution.
It could be argued they were just confident. Still, it sucks to see a big studio release done dirty in such a way. I send similar sentiments to Hangover 3, TFA and possibly godzilla this year

If pacific rim doesn't get a sequel, that would truly be a waste, for it would have been crushed in mos' spot imo.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:22 PM   #721
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July was wide open imo. Not just on paper but in terms of how the releases ended up performing. One would think if WB really did have alot riding on MOS they would have at least taken some precaution.
It could be argued they were just confident. Still, it sucks to see a big studio release done dirty in such a way. I send similar sentiments to Hangover 3, TFA and possibly godzilla this year

If pacific rim doesn't get a sequel, that would truly be a waste, for it would have been crushed in mos' spot imo.
It would have been crushed in that spot and I think MOS would have done a bit better in July. I guess WB thought PR would be bigger than it was. Still, MOS was always more likely to get a sequel than PR. Superhero movies seem to come in multiples nowadays, so it would definitely make more sense to put the movie with the most potential in July. But what's done is done, I guess.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:28 PM   #722
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It would have been crushed in that spot and I think MOS would have done a bit better in July. I guess WB thought PR would be bigger than it was. Still, MOS was always more likely to get a sequel than PR. Superhero movies seem to come in multiples nowadays, so it would definitely make more sense to put the movie with the most potential in July. But what's done is done, I guess.
I think WBs new strategy is to try to open new franchises in July.

2013 - Pacific Rim
2014 - Jupiter Ascending
2015 - Pan
2016 - Jungle Book and King Arthur

This will give the movies some breathing room through the end of summer as opposed to them being lost in June.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:31 PM   #723
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I think WBs new strategy is to try to open new franchises in July.

2013 - Pacific Rim
2014 - Jupiter Ascending
2015 - Pan
2016 - Jungle Book and King Arthur

This will give the movies some breathing room through the end of summer as opposed to them being lost in June.
Well, given the Wachowski's recent history ... 2014 is going to be another bomb for WB in that slot ... and is the world really desperate for another take on Peter Pan ... or Jungle Book ... or King Arthur.

They best market the crap out of those films, because none are a sure bet.


I don't know ... those movies getting those slots seems like it could EASILY if they're not careful go 0/5.

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Old 04-22-2014, 06:44 PM   #724
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Ah, so now that Marvel is possibly going to be the one to move, they're smart and thinking about the best interest of their property ... if DC moved or does move for some reason, they're scared and weak ... typical ... and what would hear from Devin if it occurred.
So true, and why is that clown say he is itching for a box-office fight?


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Old 04-22-2014, 06:57 PM   #725
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So true, and why is that clown say he is itching for a box-office fight?
The biggest issue if both movies opened the same weekend (which they won't) will be the screen space.

For a movie which can easily open to 170M+ and one which can open to 100M+ separately, they will need the most amount of screens they can possibly get.

To open to 100M+, a movie needs to dominate the screen count, almost half the available screens in the country should play only that movie if it needs to open to 100M+. The more that gross increases, the more the number of screens. Someone had done a calculation once on a website - the maximum gross a movie can get in a weekend in the US is around 260M, for that to happen though, the movie would need to be released in every single theater and dominate showtimes i.e. almost 90% of available showtimes, be released in 3D and IMAX.

So, the biggest issue will be that both movies can't get all 3D screens, and WB has their favorable IMAX partnership which ensures that WB movies get precedence for IMAX releases (this happened because WB was the one studio which embraced the IMAX format early).

Also, when TDKR released, my local theater of 15 screens had 18 showings at midnight. MoS had 10 showings and Cap 2 had 8 showings. Imagine if both opened the same midnight, there is no way both of them would get the showtimes they need.

Any way you cut it, opening the same day is money left on the table for either movie.

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