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Old 04-24-2014, 04:55 PM   #1
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Default TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

Some TASM2 spoilers below...





Been thinking about this ever since getting confirmation of some of TASM2 questions.

So, in order to try to determine how TASM3 will start, I think we need to summarize where we are at the end of TASM2.

So, at this point Peter has just taken back up the mantle of Spiderman and took down Rhino. Likely TASM3 will happen months after this fight scene. I can't see them picking up right from that point.

Norman is dead, or at least assumed dead (there is speculation that his head is in deep freeze in chamber #3 - even though this wasn't in the European released film).



Harry is in Ravenscroft prison and it can be assumed that he doesn't yet control his turning into the Goblin ('It comes and it goes').



The Rhino is likely locked up in Ravencroft as well.



The Gentleman is at Oscorp ready to mastermind a mess of problems for our hero...



So, the real question is whether or not the Sinister Six will be in TASM3. This is something that I speculated on about a year ago, so I'm sticking to my belief. Since last year we've been given a ton of evidence to support that the Sinister Six is coming, and likely in TASM3.

So, if they are going to go with the Sinister Six they would need to use mainly characters that we've already been introduced to (unless they will tell this story over two movies, and not just one - though that is unlikely). So, who are we likely talking about:

- The Lizard (Curt Connors) is rotting away in a jail cell.
- Goblin Harry is an obvious choice.
- The Rhino could be the muscle and effectively take the place of the Sandman in a movie Sinister Six.
- Electro is a possibility since, as Jamie put it, 'electricity never truly goes away'.

Beyond these guys, we've been shown some hints:

- The Octopus tentacles indicates Doc Ock, or at least someone using his tentacles.

- The Vulture wings indicates the Vulture will be in there.

In addition, we need to speculate on who we've met and what part they can take on.

- We've seen Donald Menken, who looks so much like The Vulture I feel we must accept that possibility. Hey, someone will need to put those wings on.



- We've met Felicia, played by Felicity Jones. IMO she's a perfect fit for Black Cat, so this is likely to be seen.



- Dr. Kaftka wears glasses similar to Doc Ock's in TASM2, and it could make sense for him to be the field leader of sorts for an S6 line-up. It would also mean that I was right when I said that Electro was talking to "Doc Ock" when he said "You can't control it Doc". I know, it's a strech, but I'm sticking with it...




- Then we also have Alistaire Smythe, but it's hard to see him as anything other than the Ultimate Spider Slayer.



So, that's where we start off. So where to go?????

Alright, it seems very likely that Rhino and Gobbie would need to be broken out of prison. This seems like the perfect way to start the next flick. Heck, it would be action packed! If the Gentleman and/or Kaftka were going to do this, how is the question? Seems likely that they would use the equipment they have (and possibly other stuff that they've been developing) to do this. So that would give us:

Octopus and Vulture breaking out Rhino and Gobbie. Guess they could go stealth, like Black Cat instead, but action packed is normally better.

Now, would The Lizard come along for the ride? Would be an easy way to get Doc Connors back in the game and part of the Sinister Six.

That would put us at 4 or 5 members.

And if this is what happens then Harry, Aleskei, and likely Kaftka and Menken are accouted for. Possibly even Doc Connors.

I could also see a scene where The Gentleman or Kaftka state something about some piece of technology being needed and having someone taking care of it. That could segueway to an exciting scene with Spidey swinging around at night and sensing something near some company headquarters (it would be somewhere other than Oscorp I think). He investigates and meets the Black Cat. They go at it a bit, with her being all flirty and such, and then with the help of a little bad luck she escapes with whatever she stole.

This would make the Sinister Six team as follows:

1. Octopus - Kaftka (hey, their both doctors)
2. Vulture - I guess Menken could donn the wings
3. Rhino - Personally I'd like to see them get away from the mech and have him go through a cross species experiment
4. Gobbie - Just makes sense, I guess. Ultimately Peter will need to get some revenge on him.
5. Black Cat - Although she's just in it for the $. She'll turn on them and help Spidey in the end.
6. Doc Connors - This one is a maybe. Hey, he's in jail, so why not? He'd only do it for science, or because he's coerced. In the end I could see him use the serum, transform, take out a baddie and slink away.

The other options are Electro, Mysterio and Kraven.

- IMO, Electro's story has been told in TASM2, so let's move on.

- Mysterio is a fan favorite, so it would be very beneficial to Webb to include him. I could easily see him use gas to mess with Peter's mind, and maybe even make him see Gwen. What a great way to bring Emma back in TASM3.

- Kraven was in the original Sinister Six, but all he really did in that story was use some animals to try to stop Spidey. Since then though Kraven has become such a great character. Personally, I'd rather see him held out for a future movie focused on him as the main villain, with his brother in there as a secondary villain. Kraven's Last Stand, for TASM6, would be so amazing!!!!!

So, simply put, if they do go with Mysterio, as most fans want, who gets the boot from my list? My guess is either Black Cat or Curt Connors, and likely the latter. Guess they could just not use Harry-Goblin or Rhino, but I don't see that.

I believe if this is where they go in TASM3, we'll be in for an amazing film. Still much to flesh out, such as whether or not The Bugle will be in the story, how to introduce MJ, whether Eddie Brock is met, etc.

So, I'm guessing we have 2 years or so, so let's start the next debate...

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Old 04-24-2014, 09:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

ASM 3 - Chameleon, Enforcers, and Green Goblin. They should have GG do what he did in Spectacular and glide backwards, about to crash into a building, and he does a backflip over the building and lands on the glider just as it's coming out. If they decide to do Venom again they shouldn't do the whole thing in just one movie. And in order to do Venom properly, Peter first has to discover the black suit and get rid of it. Have Brock get it at the end setting up Venom for the next one. One reason the Chameleon would make an interesting villain for the third film is that he could pretend to be Spider-Man. He starts committing crimes and posing as black-suit Spider-Man, causing New York to go into panic. Brock publishes an article for the Bugle claiming Spider-Man to be dangerous to the public. Eventually Spider-Man exposes Chameleon and proves himself innocent, getting Brock fired from his job. And we could make it work with all those villains, as long as they're connected in that way where they work together.

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Old 04-24-2014, 10:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

Menken turning out to be Adrian Toomes I'm perfectly fine with but Kafka as Dr. Octopus would be as moronic as casting William Fichtner as a white Shredder.

Besides, Jared Harris or Christoph Waltz would be the perfect choices for Otto Octavius.

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Old 04-25-2014, 10:23 AM   #4
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

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Menken turning out to be Adrian Toomes I'm perfectly fine with but Kafka as Dr. Octopus would be as moronic as casting William Fichtner as a white Shredder.

Besides, Jared Harris or Christoph Waltz would be the perfect choices for Otto Octavius.
I definitely agree.

How easy would it have been to just put some Engineer named Otto in TASM2, setting him up for TASM3?

But I think it's pretty obvious that Webb is going to go forward with using Kaftka instead.

I also think it's pretty obvious we're heading towards a Sinister Six movie, so the Cameleon likely doesn't make the cut. To be honest, he's more of a support character than one that creates action. Could I see him with his brother, helping to lure the Spider out to be hunted? Sure, but for the SInister Six I just don't see it. They already have so many better villains to choose from, so why force him?

It's like asking this question to the fans...

Would you rather have the Cameleon or Mysterio in the next movie?

And I think we both know what the majority answer would be.

As far as the Enforcers, I think they're a little too obscure. If the story was going to be focused on the crime lords of the city then maybe, but I don't think that's where we're heading.

Personally (as I've written a thread about), I would love to see a TV series focused on the Bugle, that would get into the whole crime lord storylines, including Fisk, Tombstone and Hammerhead, and the Enforcers would be good source material for something like this. Come on Webb, I'm telling you, Marvel's The Bugle TV series is gold. All I want is a small conceptual fee...

Anyway, let's try to take this a different way.

Simple question:

Will The Black Cat be in TASM3, and if so, will she start off working "somewhat on the baddie's side", meaning, will she be hired by Oscorp or someone of that nature?

And if so, what will she be hired to steal? Would Peter's blood make sense, or would it be some sort of piece of equipment?

All I know is me want some Black Cat:


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Old 04-26-2014, 08:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

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I definitely agree.

How easy would it have been to just put some Engineer named Otto in TASM2, setting him up for TASM3?

But I think it's pretty obvious that Webb is going to go forward with using Kaftka instead.

I also think it's pretty obvious we're heading towards a Sinister Six movie, so the Cameleon likely doesn't make the cut. To be honest, he's more of a support character than one that creates action. Could I see him with his brother, helping to lure the Spider out to be hunted? Sure, but for the SInister Six I just don't see it. They already have so many better villains to choose from, so why force him?

It's like asking this question to the fans...

Would you rather have the Cameleon or Mysterio in the next movie?

And I think we both know what the majority answer would be.

As far as the Enforcers, I think they're a little too obscure. If the story was going to be focused on the crime lords of the city then maybe, but I don't think that's where we're heading.

Personally (as I've written a thread about), I would love to see a TV series focused on the Bugle, that would get into the whole crime lord storylines, including Fisk, Tombstone and Hammerhead, and the Enforcers would be good source material for something like this. Come on Webb, I'm telling you, Marvel's The Bugle TV series is gold. All I want is a small conceptual fee...

Anyway, let's try to take this a different way.

Simple question:

Will The Black Cat be in TASM3, and if so, will she start off working "somewhat on the baddie's side", meaning, will she be hired by Oscorp or someone of that nature?

And if so, what will she be hired to steal? Would Peter's blood make sense, or would it be some sort of piece of equipment?

All I know is me want some Black Cat:

I really would love to see Chameleon in any movie but Mysterio is and will always be my No 1 fav Marvel Character.

Chameleon is not just a low level foe he really could carry his own movie but the one story he would be great if adapted for a movie is his team up with Hammerhead.

Hammerhead I feel would be a great villain to introduce to the movieworld and he needs a decent comeback for today's comic book geeks etc.

Kraven & Vulture need more of an introduction before becoming members of S6.

I do like your Bugle TV idea. I am a fan of Agents Of Shield so more Marvel TV projects get my vote.


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Old 04-27-2014, 06:47 AM   #6
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Good lord, I hope Dr Kafka isn't Doc Ock. That would be awful.

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Old 04-28-2014, 01:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

Didn't they kill Kafka off when Electro broke out of Ravencroft? I'm pretty sure they did.

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Old 04-28-2014, 02:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

If Kafka turns out to be doc ock people will be so upset

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Old 04-28-2014, 12:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

I agree, Kafka as the Doc Ock equivalent will be a let down. But unfortunately I think this is what we're going to get. Here's a link to an article:

http://whateveraspidercan.com/2014/0...-spider-man-2/

From what these articles indicate I don't think Kafka is dead (just knocked out?).

I guess we should ask why Webb would do this? My only answer is that since we already had a full movie dedicated to the Otto Octavius Doc Ock character, he may want to try a different route. I have to believe that if Webb wants Otto for Ock then Otto would have been in TASM2...

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Old 04-28-2014, 06:58 PM   #10
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I think that article and people are overthinking that scene. Webb likes to have a lot of winks at movies that inspired him as a filmmaker ala Charlie Chaplin. The way Kafka looks, he has the stereotypical mad scientist long black latex gloves, goggles, and Germanic accent and odd haircut. I also heard there's suppose to be some eerie Germanic music playing (haven't seen the film yet but will Friday). It seems to me Webb is going for a "Frankenstein" moment where Jamie Foxx's Electro is essentially Boris Karloff.

I don't think Sony would be that dumb to have Kafka be Dr. Octopus but then again... they still have Avi Arad on their producing team.

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Old 04-28-2014, 07:10 PM   #11
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Well, I wondered why they made Kafka a dude.

Frankly I don't care if he can pull it off. X-Men: Evolution renamed Toad and Avalanche, Spider-Man: The Animated Series renamed Rhino and Electro (Rhino's new name carried to Ultimate comics), Spectacular Spider-Man used different characters for Shocker and Kingpin "Big Man". The Spider-Webb film series has a lot bigger problems that making Kafka Ock.

As for a gender-swapped vulture, they can use Brenda Drago.

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Old 04-29-2014, 01:06 AM   #12
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Is Kafka ever referred to by his first name in the film?

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Old 04-29-2014, 09:42 AM   #13
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^ So funny. I see where you're going with your question.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not Doctor Ashley Kafka (since Marton's a dude), but instead it's Doctor Otto Kafka.

So I decided to look it up on IMDB (I know, that's not always accurate) and it's funny that Doctor Kafka is listed as "Ashley"!

I was assuming it was going to be listed simply as Dr. Kafka. So now I'm wondering what is listed in the credits?????

I wonder if Webb understands that just giving Dr. Kafka the name "Otto" (if that's what he did/does), changing the character into a male and giving him some German accent isn't going to appease us hardcore fans when he makes this guy put on Doc Ock's tentacles!!! Why didn't he just make Doc Ock some Oscorp Engineer and put him in TASM2?????

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Old 04-29-2014, 10:05 AM   #14
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The thing is if it was a case where the villains were going by false aliases to hide their true nature/intentions and then reveal their true names, I could be fine with it, but if it's simply having Kafka as Dr. Octopus... eff that.

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Old 04-29-2014, 12:28 PM   #15
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^ So funny. I see where you're going with your question.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not Doctor Ashley Kafka (since Marton's a dude), but instead it's Doctor Otto Kafka.

So I decided to look it up on IMDB (I know, that's not always accurate) and it's funny that Doctor Kafka is listed as "Ashley"!

Ashley is a gender neutral name.

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Old 04-29-2014, 04:59 PM   #16
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^ Guess so, though I don't think I've ever met a male Ashley before.

In the end, I'm not even sure that Marton was listed as playing "Dr. Ashley Kafka" in the credits. If not (does anyone know???), then IMDB is just speculating/guessing/plain wrong, all of which is in the realm of possibility.

NinjaTurtleFan, unfortunately, I could see them either A, just make Dr. Kafka (whatever his first name is) into the Doc Ock equivalent or B, turn him into some combination character by giving him the first name Otto.

If you think about it, everything else matches, from the look, to the glasses to the accent.

Could it be nothing more than a nod to the old German Mad Scientist characters?



Maybe, but the fact alone that Webb forced the gender change makes me think not. There's a reason why he make Ashley a male, and the lingering shot on the glasses makes me think, unfortunately, Dr. Kafka will be:


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Old 04-29-2014, 06:53 PM   #17
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I think it's a 'wait and see' scenario. I mean has anyone interviewed Marton Csokas about his role? Has Dr. Octopus ever come up in an interview with him?

Besides, from what I've read online in forums like these, as far as reviews, Csoka's Kafka is one of the worse things about the film so if the fans don't like him and the critics are critical of that scene, I can't expect Kafka going any further as a character let alone being secretly Otto Octavius or just ignoring Otto entirely and be the new Dr. Octopus.

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Old 04-30-2014, 12:54 AM   #18
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^ So funny. I see where you're going with your question.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not Doctor Ashley Kafka (since Marton's a dude), but instead it's Doctor Otto Kafka.
I believe that they will try to differentiate the new Octopus from the first trilogy. I haven't watched the film and can't say about Kafka's character, but it seems to bother a lot of people. IMO name Octavius simply doesn't work that well in a modern and more grounded world (as Magnus for Magneto, so they stick with Eric), and both Otto and Kafka are German names. It makes more sense to use already established characters for the future Six, then introducing new ones.

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Old 04-30-2014, 09:30 AM   #19
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

I agree, using characters that were introduced in TASM1 or 2 for the S6 makes sense, which is part of the reasoning for why I believe Webb is going to do this.

At the same time Marton's Kafka seems to be the biggest complaint with the movie so far, so could this be another Shaelene situation? Would Webb change or cut the plans for Kafka?

But I do agree with sauronthegreat that Webb will want to differentiate his Octopus from Spiderman 2, so a change like this would do that!

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Old 04-30-2014, 09:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: TASM3 Plot and Opening Scene Speculation

^
Depends on how bad it is. Is it badly acted by Marton or badly written as a character. But in the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon Otto was terrible before becoming Octopus and then he got even better as the Master Planner.. Hopefully they are taking that route.

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Old 04-30-2014, 09:52 AM   #21
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^ True, might not be his fault, just like I don't put all of the MJ scene issues on Shaelene.

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Old 05-02-2014, 05:20 PM   #22
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I honestly don't see how Pete on screen takes on six villains without help.

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Old 05-02-2014, 10:31 PM   #23
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I guess they could turn on each other near the end & Peter uses that to his advantage. They are bad guys after all

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Old 05-04-2014, 03:07 AM   #24
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This would be my ideal plot going forward. I'll put spoiler tags as this will deal with some elements of AMS2.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
We start AMS3 with the aftermath of Rhino's defeat. Peter is coming to terms with Gwen's death, and since Spidey's return, the high demand for pictures of the hero has led him to a permanent position at the Daily Bugle (we know he's been sending freelance pics to Jonah, and this time, we actually get to see him). I'd like to see Harry hire Rhino again (possibly re-engineered via cross species genetics) to take down Spidey before the Goblin shows up personally for an ultimate showdown. After this fight in which Harry will get away and leave spidey badly wounded, Peter will get the symbiote (the introduction of Jonah could also introduce the spaceship storyline with his son) and this will heal him up and fuel his need for revenge on Harry, putting him in the hospital and in turn motivating him to get rid of the goo. Once rid of evil, this will give Peter time to reflect and fully close that chapter of his life and invite the possibility of a new relationship, just in time for Mary Jane, the new next door neighbor, to turn up at his doorstep ("face it tiger, you just hit the jackpot").

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Old 05-04-2014, 08:42 AM   #25
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After seeing the film, there is NO way Kafka is going to be Dr. Octopus. Being tied to that gurney, electrocuted, and then left to fry/die in Ravencroft, I say he's dead and good riddens too. Such an incredibly stupid character.

Csokas would've been better suited for Kraven the Hunter.

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