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Old 06-04-2014, 01:53 AM   #26
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
I don't think SM4 would've been the masterpiece many around here were expecting.

But we'll never know so I guess everyone gets to assume it would've been way better than SM3/ASM1.
Even if it wasn't a masterpiece it probly would have made a lot more then asm1 though but if it had been bad sony figured it would have then killed sm5 or doing a reboot after sm4 or something.

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Old 06-04-2014, 12:41 PM   #27
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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Dude, the audience rating on RT is a beyond flawed metric. Anyone can go on there and vote 500 times that they disliked something just to drive the rating down out of spite, and this happened when TASM came out. All the Raimi numbers "suddenly" dipped when SM4 was cancelled. I don't think that is a coincidence.

This is why I don't take the audience rating on RT seriously at all. IMDB is also flawed.
I agree IMDB is flawed. Look at the message boards, total nutthouse!

Could it be that the sudden dip was because of other CBM's in general. I mean look at the genre 10 years ago. The only other good ongoing franchise that was good was X-Men. Fantastic Four failed, Hulk failed and in early 2005 Ghost Rider sucked. Heck, Blade 3 failed and 5 years before SM1 we got Batman and Robin. 10 years ago we were surrounded by mediocrity and bad CBM's. Now with movies like The Dark Knight Trilogy the bar has been set very high. It has happened to other movies too (like X-Men).

I don't honestly think that just because a reboot came out it would affect people's preception of the old. If anything, people's preception of the new would be affected by the old.

Most are open minded. Raimi vs Webb, Marvel vs FOX, Burton vs Nolan etc does not really go on among the GA as much as here.

The great thing about the general audience is most pay to see a movie so they want to like it. "My director is better than yours!!!11" is not what they are thinking, what they are thinking is this; Is this any good?

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Old 06-04-2014, 02:38 PM   #28
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

Do Sony regret rebooting? Nope, because raimi wanted to end his run and i think sony wanted fresh start to work with, a new venom that won't die after one film and 10 minutes of screen time ect ect and i don't blame them

problem with Sony is that they ain't good universe builders, neither is avi, they need to hire someone to look over this universe and show sony a way they can do more with less and spread out the universe with more films and with more patience

sadly i don't think the star trek/transformers writers are the right guys for that either, infact now one of them has a bigger hand in Star trek 3 i am very unsure how that will turn out

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Old 06-04-2014, 02:45 PM   #29
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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If the goal of a reboot is to reintroduce the character to a brand new generation and expand your viewer base to a bigger height, then it has failed unquestionably by doing the opposite. Due to their impatience, the result of which was a a premature reboot, not only did the they not gain any significant consumers, it instead served to drive away a noticeable section of the audience that watched the Spider-man films.

But as many rejuvenated franchises have proven, if you reward the audience with quality, you stand a good chance of winning them back. But they happened to make their present problem a bigger one. Instead of building their audience back, they managed to drive away yet another portion of the already reduced viewer base that bothered to support the first one.

Does the bad news end here? They wish. Instead of wisely reducing their budget to reflect the downward trend, they make it more extravagant. But even that show of budgetary affluence looks like a Bronx ghetto compared to the helium explosion that is their marketing budget. Bombarding us relentlessly with the same sequences over and over again. The monotony of which was only exceeded by suffering the corresponding scenes in the actual cinema. That's right. If the movie is as highly problematic as it was, Sony should've aimed for smarter exposure of the imagery free fall. In the end, it wasn't even a surprise that the movie had exactly the problems the trailers, spots, bill boards, cups, toys, clips, superclips, hyperclips, mega trailers hinted there was.

So, um, yes. The reboot was a mistake. Their rationale for starting over was because so they would release the reboot faster then Raimi's fourth effort. Yet it came out at the same time Raimi's would've. But the similarities end there. Raimi's Spider-man 4, provided it was a return to form (like Singer's DOFP), would've assuredly made more than ASM. They could've been smart and elected a Bond-like soft continuity to Raimi's with a different cast after that, and all would've been right with the world.
It's so wierd that Sony mandated a summer 2011 release date for SM4. They had another full year to wait if they wanted.


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I don't think SM4 would've been the masterpiece many around here were expecting.

But we'll never know so I guess everyone gets to assume it would've been way better than SM3/ASM1.
Masterpiece? Maybe not, but Raimi had a good track record prior to SM3, and the interference on that was well-documented. It's fair to assume he could have pulled off something great again, especially as he was open about not feeling satisfied with the last film.

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Old 06-04-2014, 03:04 PM   #30
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

Raimi wanted to end the series the same way Nolan did with the dark knight, it was very unlikely to ever become a James bond style pass on, and even if they just changed the cast and director and pretended it was in the same universe it would still have struggled

I had no interest in seeing SM4 personally, the moment they killed off venom I just realised the current series had taken away the only thing I would have happily looked forward to seeing again

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Old 06-04-2014, 06:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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Originally Posted by henzINNIT View Post
It's so wierd that Sony mandated a summer 2011 release date for SM4. They had another full year to wait if they wanted.




Masterpiece? Maybe not, but Raimi had a good track record prior to SM3, and the interference on that was well-documented. It's fair to assume he could have pulled off something great again, especially as he was open about not feeling satisfied with the last film.
Or Raimi was just running out of steam.

People forget he both wrote and directed SM3.

Just because the studio wanted Venom in the movie doesn't mean Raimi had no creative control.

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Old 06-04-2014, 06:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Or Raimi was just running out of steam.

People forget he both wrote and directed SM3.

Just because the studio wanted Venom in the movie doesn't mean Raimi had no creative control.
He had no creative control on SM-3;

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"They really gave me a tremendous amount of control on the first two films, actually," Raimi told British magazine Empire. "But then there were different opinions on the third film and I didn't really have creative control, so to speak."
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/03/31...-spider-man-4/

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Old 06-04-2014, 06:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

He didn't write the third one too? :/

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Old 06-05-2014, 04:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

He wrote the 3rd one and basically was told by the studio to rewrite the script to replace Vulture with Venom.At which point,the story was no longer as he originally intended.

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Old 06-06-2014, 05:21 AM   #35
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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Originally Posted by MessiahDecoy123 View Post
Or Raimi was just running out of steam.

People forget he both wrote and directed SM3.

Just because the studio wanted Venom in the movie doesn't mean Raimi had no creative control.
SM3 was being rewritten up to 2 weeks before they wrapped shooting. Raimi's original pitch was concise and effective, but Sony were so committed to their own ideas that at one point they had another script written while he was working on his own. What we got was the two stories mashed together.

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Old 06-06-2014, 08:16 AM   #36
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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He had no creative control on SM-3;



http://splashpage.mtv.com/2009/03/31...-spider-man-4/
This just verifies Sony have to much creative control now days

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Old 06-06-2014, 08:19 AM   #37
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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SM3 was being rewritten up to 2 weeks before they wrapped shooting. Raimi's original pitch was concise and effective, but Sony were so committed to their own ideas that at one point they had another script written while he was working on his own. What we got was the two stories mashed together.
Both story's were not great

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Old 06-06-2014, 01:15 PM   #38
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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This just verifies Sony have to much creative control now days
It also verifies studios should let directors have creative control, especially when they've earned it.

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Old 06-06-2014, 01:26 PM   #39
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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He wrote the 3rd one and basically was told by the studio to rewrite the script to replace Vulture with Venom.At which point,the story was no longer as he originally intended.
And many of the worst characteristics of the movie can be traced to Venom and Peter's time with the symbiote, which lets face it, Raimi just didn't understand. Those additions should never have been forced on him.

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Old 06-06-2014, 02:00 PM   #40
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

There isn't anything in SM3 that you can is say part Raimis story and part Sonys other story really

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Old 06-06-2014, 02:51 PM   #41
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

Sony's other story?

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Old 06-06-2014, 04:06 PM   #42
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

Someone just said Sony got someone else to write a script and they meshed it with Raimis script

But when a lot of it isn't great anyway there is very little you can take and say oh that was good that was clearly a Raimi thing, oh and that's bad it must have been another writers work

I am pretty the Peter emo dance was Raimis doing

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Old 06-06-2014, 04:45 PM   #43
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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It also verifies studios should let directors have creative control, especially when they've earned it.
There it is. Even as someone who didn't like TDKR, WB did it right by letting Nolan execute his vision as he saw fit, sink or swim. With that in mind, who knows; maybe Spider-Man 3 would have been as bad or worse, but it also could have been a much more coherent story than what we ended up with. I think, however, that it may have been closer to the latter than the former. He was in rare form with DMTH, after all.

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I don't think SM4 would've been the masterpiece many around here were expecting.

But we'll never know so I guess everyone gets to assume it would've been way better than SM3/ASM1.
Have many people really insinuated that? From my perspective, I don't believe in guaranteeing masterpieces and such (you'll never see me get caught up in the hype and say OMG!!! This movie is gonna be so awesome), but I was at least optimistic that he could have brought the franchise back on track, akin to what Singer and Vaughn did for X-Men with First Class.

I've never viewed SM3 as being a colossal fiasco that buried the series. It was certainly a colossal disappointment, especially after following one of the genre's very best, but in three movies, they only scratched the surface of the Spider-Man mythos; there was plenty more story to tell. For as much as I dislike the recent movie, I'd even argue the same thing in favor of that franchise as well (although the difference here is that they haven't managed to show me anything that gives me confidence in their ability to move forward with the character in any sort of meaningful way). I do think that there have been numerous missed opportunities thus far, but that's a discussion for another time.

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Old 06-06-2014, 06:09 PM   #44
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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Someone just said Sony got someone else to write a script and they meshed it with Raimis script

But when a lot of it isn't great anyway there is very little you can take and say oh that was good that was clearly a Raimi thing, oh and that's bad it must have been another writers work

I am pretty the Peter emo dance was Raimis doing
It's pretty easy really. Raimi's script, unaltered, would have featured Vulture. Alvin Sergeant was brought in to write a script including Eddie Brock and Venom. Once they were meshed, I'm sure Raimi had his hand in every aspect of course, but most problems with the film can be attributed to that plot specifically or the struggle to force it in.

Is Raimi free of all responsibility? Of course not, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the two films he made before, and the clear evidence that he was locked into a struggle for creative control and an unforgiving schedule. If SM3 isn't enough proof of this, then the fact that he walked away from SM4 with the same concerns should do it.

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Old 11-01-2014, 10:36 PM   #45
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Default Re: Do Sony regret rebooting now?

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It also verifies studios should let directors have creative control, especially when they've earned it.
It still angers me. Raimi should've been given creative control of the franchise the minute the original SM made $820M worldwide. He earned it, frankly. It's a shame the producers walked all over him while they were filming SM3 -- and I place the lion's share on Avi Arad.

And it seems like he had his hands all over Marc Webb's SM films too. Ugh, Arad is like Jon Peters all over again. Why Sony didn't essentially make him a silent partner for the reboot is beyond me.

I think they do to a degree. It seems like every other week, Sony's flitting with one idea then abandoning it for another. Here's an idea Sony should try: Boot Arad's ass from the franchise. Let Webb have the creative freedom to do ASM3, or bring back Sam Raimi to do a DOFP-style SM-4.

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