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Old 07-01-2014, 06:09 PM   #651
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Originally Posted by Llama_Shepherd View Post
A big point in the scene when Clark is bullied when he is pulled out of the truck is that he can't be physically hurt. But it hurts anyway, and it made him angry.

So this guy wasn't physically hurt, but he had his job destroyed and he gets angry.

What do you think he'd do next? Go work for the Salvation Army?

Actually Batman Begins had a good line about it:

Rachel Dawes: You're not talking about justice. You're talking about revenge.
Bruce Wayne: Sometimes they're the same.
Rachel Dawes: No, they're never the same, Bruce. Justice is about harmony. Revenge is about you making yourself feel better.
Again I return to the point, the trucker can get a new job / truck / revenue, the waitress losese her life / face / dignity and potential murder.

Invaribaly bullies will always be bullies, it's usually generational and unless they are spoken too, listened to why they bully and have someone talk to them and respect why they have bullied and understand their needs and work out how to deal with the anger inside them, they won't change.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:11 PM   #652
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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The idea that Superman is supposed to be better than us is a myth dreamed up by a handful of comic writers and fans. What we get with that is a damnably annoying Superman, who is arrogant and judgmental.

And Superman is better than me, because if I'd been Superman, I would have ripped the guy's .... I'd better not write exactly what I would have done. Suffice it to say, I found that guy's behavior so intolerable, he wouldn't have walked away in one piece.
He's better than us. he proved in the movie. not being selfish for example in the Oil Rig, or with Col. Hardy saving him from Faora, or sacrifing himself on the WE and surrending to Zod. Yeah some just lacks from memory. He's just now more relatable to us not being the perfect god that can do whatever and never makes mistakes. that's Donner and silver age Superman. And belong to another era. So.....

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:11 PM   #653
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Again I return to the point, the trucker can get a new job / truck / revenue, the waitress losese her life / face / dignity and potential murder.


So where's the constructive process in making him worse?

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Invaribaly bullies will always be bullies, it's usually generational and unless they are spoken too, listened to why they bully and have someone talk to them and respect why they have bullied and understand their needs and work out how to deal with the anger inside them, they won't change.
Exactly. Talks to him.

It probably would have been better to revisit the trucker once Clark had revealed himself, and rehabilitated him, rather than pushed him around.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:11 PM   #654
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I have a question for some Superman fans.

What are Supermans character flaws?I mean flaws like real negatives not backhanded compliments like he cares-too-much.
It depends what superman you're talking about, but if we're talking about the type of superman I enjoy, I think the following flaws are in character:

- Trusting to a fault: Superman always tries to see the good in people and usually, this serves him well. But there are times when it would result in him trusting people in ways that he shouldn't. MOS superman might be particularly susceptible to this considering he hasn't had many allies in the past. I could see him jumping at the chance to have a ally like Batman without considering the idea that perhaps he should look into this dude a bit before giving him information.

- Temper: I see superman as controlled most of the time, but with a being as caring as he is, I imagine him struggling a bit to maintain composure when he sees the truly monstrous things humans are capable of. As I've said before, these types of situations might cause a commonly placid man to become enraged.

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He is an amazing Superman and in the moments that we got Clark in MOS, he did really well with that role too. I am truely excited for this era of DC films, I think they will be something truely exceptional with the talent involved of cast & crew.
I agree. Can't wait to see what Cavill brings to the role with each installment he's involved in.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:12 PM   #655
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Oh, are we only allowed to bring up Chris Reeve's performance as Clark Kent/Superman when it's convenient to naysayers' arguments? I must have missed that memo. Sorry, not sorry.
LOL, MOS defenders bring up Chris Reeve way more than any naysayers do.

The past few days in this thread?

"Oh, I don't want Clark to be a stupid bumbler like in those Chris Reeve movies."

That's ok though, you keep living that fantasy where any and everyone who criticizes MOS is a rabid Reeve/Donner fanboy.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:12 PM   #656
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I'm not saying the guy wasn't an *******. But that doesn't mean Clark gets to be too. He's supposed to be better than him. At least that guy was being true to who he was, Clark skulked around in the shadows and trashed stuff. Real heroic.
I'm not sure how one can liken destroying a truck to sexual and physical assault, and yet here you are. At any rate, he wasn't a hero yet. He was just an extraordinary specimen trying to be a regular guy.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:13 PM   #657
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Again I return to the point, the trucker can get a new job / truck / revenue, the waitress losese her life / face / dignity and potential murder.

Invaribaly bullies will always be bullies, it's usually generational and unless they are spoken too, listened to why they bully and have someone talk to them and respect why they have bullied and understand their needs and work out how to deal with the anger inside them, they won't change.
Yeah like the bully wants to listen,
Can't believe that for some is better a truck that a dignity and intregrity of a woman. UNBELIEVABLE!!!

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:13 PM   #658
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

I had tremendous difficulty getting into All Star Superman. It took me a long time to complete it. I wanted so badly to like it, because of it being recommended so highly to me as a definitive Superman story.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:14 PM   #659
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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You would lash out with revenge, so did he. The extent is not the point, the intent is.
I have a question for you Llama. Do you want the upcoming movie to expound on the flaws he demonstrated in MOS, or do you think there should be a reckoning of sorts? In my mind, I'm envisioning a scene between him and Bats where he schools him a bit about revenge and calls him to task. Then Superman responds that Batman has done worse, and Bats replies, but you're Superman.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:15 PM   #660
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I'm not sure how one can liken destroying a truck to sexual and physical assault, and yet here you are. At any rate, he wasn't a hero yet. He was just an extraordinary specimen trying to be a regular guy.
When did I say groping= destroying a vehicle?

If he was trying to be ordinary he didn't do a very good job when he tore up a truck.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:15 PM   #661
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Yeah like the bully want to listen,
Can't believe that for some is better a truck that a dignity and intregrity of a woman. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
I know, but throwing a bone as I'm being bashed for thinking the value of a truck is more than someones's life.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:16 PM   #662
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

Is All Star Supermam the one where Mxyzptlk decides he wants to be evil and Superman kills him and decides to give up his powers?

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:18 PM   #663
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I know, but throwing a bone as I'm being bashed for thinking the value of a truck is more than someones's life.
I really can't understand that Sorry for those guys...

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:18 PM   #664
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I have a question for you Llama. Do you want the upcoming movie to expound on the flaws he demonstrated in MOS, or do you think there should be a reckoning of sorts? In my mind, I'm envisioning a scene between him and Bats where he schools him a bit about revenge and calls him to task. Then Superman responds that Batman has done worse, and Bats replies, but you're Superman.
Honestly.

No.


I want Batman v Superman to be pretty much a clean break from Man of Steel. As few references as possible to the story, like The Dark Knight to Batman Begins. I think it's far too divisive an issue. I mean can you imagine how the people here would react if Superman admitted to being right or wrong in Man of Steel? This film should just be Superman business as usual, Batman business as usual, and something happens that draws them together and leads to Justice League.

The ****storm would be endless.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:18 PM   #665
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Is All Star Supermam the one where Mxyzptlk decides he wants to be evil and Superman kills him and decides to give up his powers?
That's Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to The Man of Tommorow?"

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Welcome to the Batman v Superman forums, where people will take a perfectly reasonable comment you make and twist it into something completely different to make themselves feel better.
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Old 07-01-2014, 06:18 PM   #666
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Is All Star Supermam the one where Mxyzptlk decides he wants to be evil and Superman kills him and decides to give up his powers?
Nope. that was Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:19 PM   #667
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I like how you make sexual harassment just 'poor etiquette'. Poor etiquette is spitting on the floor, or picking your nose in public. Grabbing someone without their permission, handling them roughly, or grabbing their ass is sexual harassment and assault.

But I see how you can get that confused. The actions are so similar, it makes things pretty murky.

The trucker clearly reveled in his power over Chrissie (Chrissy?). He felt entitled to touch her body, and to act as if her attempts to brush him off were an insult towards his manhood. Not to mention how quickly he became physically abusive towards Clark. A man like him is a step away from being a rapist. He's lucky Clark broke his truck, and not his family jewels.
How does (illegally) destroying the man's truck make the situation any better? If anything, the driver will most likely become even more bitter and angry, which would of course lead to him being even more violent and abusive to women...

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:20 PM   #668
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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When did I say groping= destroying a vehicle?

If he was trying to be ordinary he didn't do a very good job when he tore up a truck.
You chalked both of their behaviors up to acting like a-holes. So, you're lumping both of their actions in the same category. If this wasn't you intention, then my apologies, but I'm not sure if there's another way to read it.

I misspoke, I should've said "trying to appear to be a normal guy." No one saw him total the truck, so he still maintains his appearance.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:20 PM   #669
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I know, but throwing a bone as I'm being bashed for thinking the value of a truck is more than someones's life.
Please.

I said Clark is not helping any situation by making clearly an already easily angered man very angry.

It would be like being in a bank robbery and just spitting in the robbers face.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:21 PM   #670
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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When did I say groping= destroying a vehicle?

If he was trying to be ordinary he didn't do a very good job when he tore up a truck.
Welcome to the Batman v Superman forums, where people will take a perfectly reasonable comment you make and twist it into something completely different to make themselves feel better.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:22 PM   #671
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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I have a question for you Llama. Do you want the upcoming movie to expound on the flaws he demonstrated in MOS, or do you think there should be a reckoning of sorts? In my mind, I'm envisioning a scene between him and Bats where he schools him a bit about revenge and calls him to task. Then Superman responds that Batman has done worse, and Bats replies, but you're Superman.
"Do as I say, not as I do" is not what I'd call good "schooling". It wouldn't be too far out of character for Batman, though.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:24 PM   #672
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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You chalked both of their behaviors up to acting like a-holes. So, you're lumping both of their actions in the same category. If this wasn't you intention, then my apologies, but I'm not sure if there's another way to read it.
I mean, I guess in terms of a broad category you could say that. Do you think it's appropriate for Clark Kent to take revenge on someone rather than rehabilitate them? Eye for an eye doesn't seem very heroic.

Quote:
I misspoke, I should've said "trying to appear to be a normal guy." No one saw him total the truck, so he still maintains his appearance.
But it's enough to risk being seen if you get him mad.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:24 PM   #673
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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That's Alan Moore's "Whatever Happened to The Man of Tommorow?"
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Nope. that was Whatever happened to the man of tomorrow.
Ah right right right right.

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Old 07-01-2014, 06:24 PM   #674
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

smashing a truck is illegal but harrassing a woman and who knows what wanted to do further if it wasn't for Superman is saw as no big deal.
Really that's why it's too much injustice in the world because of those thoughts.

Again, the I don't have my truck I will drink more and do some more bullying is one of the most PATHETIC EXCUSES I've heard.

Like if the trucker didn't think oh geez my truck was smashed because I was an #%##% and the guy who I can't even moved when I tried to hit him did it and he can return and really teach me a harder lesson. I should change my way to TRAIT WOMEN.




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Old 07-01-2014, 06:26 PM   #675
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Default Re: Henry Cavill IS Superman - Part 8

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Welcome to the Batman v Superman forums, where people will take a perfectly reasonable comment you make and twist it into something completely different to make themselves feel better.
And how exactly am I making myself feel better? What was I down about to begin with? Seems you've not only missed the mark on my intent, but on the context as well.

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I mean, I guess in terms of a broad category you could say that. Do you think it's appropriate for Clark Kent to take revenge on someone rather than rehabilitate them? Eye for an eye doesn't seem very heroic.



But it's enough to risk being seen if you get him mad.
Again, he wasn't a hero yet. He did some great deeds here and there, but he wasn't Superman yet. I don't mind seeing him make mistakes early on. He feels more relatable that way and it makes him becoming a hero later feel more earned. If he's like that from the jump, then I'm bored.


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